The Ten Commandments are the Covenant, did you know?

[TMS]

As to which day Christians (under the New Covenant) MUST worship I do not see any command in the NT.

Christians from the earliest centuries certainly did not believe this. Rather, the believed that the RESURRECTION OF CHRIST on the FIRST day of the week reset all OUR worship priorities and expectations. Now we do not look back upon the creation day but forward to the Second Advent. Passages such as Acts 20:7, 1 Corinthians 16:2, Colossians 2:16-17, and Revelation 1:10 indicate that, even during New Testament times, Sabbath-keeping was no longer considered binding and that Christians worshiped on "The Lord’s Day," (Sunday), instead.

I honest study of history will show you that Christians kept the 7th day sabbath for many years. And the change has been claimed by papal Rome.. they claim to have changed the day by their own power.

There were battles between the Jews, Christians and the pagans.

By this stange in history the bible was finished being written.. and there is no statements about a change from Saturday to Sunday.. those that followed Jesus kept the sabbath, Paul kept the sabbath.

Gnosticism began to rise up under the influence of philosophers who sought to reconcile Christianity with Paganism. At the same time, a strong anti-Jewish sentiment became more widespread. Very speculative interpretations began to appear regarding some of the great doctrines of Christ and the apostles.

By the time Constantine was established as the emperor of Rome in the early fourth century, there was a decided division in the church as a result of all these factors.

You see, at that time the cult of Mithraism or sun-worship was the official religion of the Roman Empire. It stood as the greatest competitor to the new Christian religion. It had its own organization, temples, priesthood, robes—everything. It also had an official worship day on which special homage was given to the sun. That day was called “The Venerable Day of the Sun.” It was the first day of the week, and from it we get our name Sunday. When Constantine pressed his pagan hordes into the church they were observing the day of the sun for their adoration of the sun god. It was their special holy day.
In order to make it more convenient for them to make the change to the new religion, Constantine accepted their day of worship, Sunday, instead of the Christian Sabbath which had been observed by Jesus and His disciples. Remember that the way had been prepared for this already by the increasing anti-Jewish feelings against those who were accused of putting Jesus to death.

Rome changed it to Sunday by their own authority and admit there is no Biblical reason. I will give you their quotes in the next post..

There were 7th day sabbath keeping christians all through history. But Rome was very powerful in the dark ages.

There is no Biblical reason to change the sabbath to Sunday.

 

[TMS]

Catholic statements

After Constantine made the initial legal decree about the change, the Catholic Church reinforced that act in one church council after another. For this reason, many, many official statements from Catholic sources are made, claiming that the church made the change from Saturday to Sunday. But before I read those statements I shall refer to one from the Encyclopedia Britannica under the article, Sunday. Notice: “It was Constantine who first made a law for the proper observance of Sunday and who appointed that it should be regularly celebrated throughout the Roman empire.”

A quote from the Catholic Press newspaper in Sydney, Australia. “Sunday is a Catholic institution and its claims to observance can be defended only on Catholic principles. From the beginning to end of Scripture there is not a single passage that warrants the transfer of weekly public worship from the last day of the week to the first.”

The Catholic Mirror of September 23, 1894, puts it this way: “The Catholic Church for over one thousand years before the existence of a Protestant by virtue of her divine mission, changed the day from Saturday to Sunday.”

From the Convert’s Catechism of Catholic Doctrine by Reverend Peter Giermann. “Question: Which is the Sabbath day? Answer: Saturday is the Sabbath day. Question: Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday? Answer: We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church in the Council of Laodicea transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday.”

From Reverend Steven Keenan’s Doctrinal Catechism we read this: “Question: Have you any other way of proving that the Church has power to institute festivals of precept? Answer: Had she not such power, she could not have done that in which all modern religionists agree with her; she could not have substituted the observance of Sunday, the first day of the week, for the observance of Saturday, the seventh day; a change for which there is no Scriptural authority.”

There is many more but I think you get the picture..

Like I said. A honest study of the first 100+ years after Christ will show that all the faithful followers of Jesus kept the 7th day sabbath.

 

[Inquisitor]

therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

How do you understand the statement below when "fulfilling" is a verb form of the word fulfill?

Romans 13:10 (KJV)
...therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Then how do you understand the same statement with "fulfillment" as a noun?

Romans 13:10 (NASB)
...therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

These two translations are very different in their meaning.

 

[TMS]

AI Says.. in regard to the sabbath and first 300 years after Christ...

This is AI not me...
The 300 years following Christ saw a gradual transition in the Christian Church from observing the seventh-day Sabbath (Saturday) to primarily celebrating the "Lord’s Day" (Sunday). While early Jewish-Christian believers maintained the Saturday Sabbath, by the early 4th century, the Roman Church had largely substituted it with Sunday, driven by rising anti-Semitism and the influence of pagan sun worship, culminating in Emperor Constantine's legal enforcement of Sunday in A.D. 321.

I know AI just reads all the stuff online..

But history tells us that the 7th day sabbath was kept in the years that followed Christ's death and resurrection.

The people keeping the Sabbath knew what day was right to keep.

If the new covenant removed the sabbath why did they keep it holy. ?

 

[Inquisitor]

I honest study of history will show you that Christians kept the 7th day sabbath for many years. And the change has been claimed by papal Rome.. they claim to have changed the day by their own power.

There were battles between the Jews, Christians and the pagans.

By this stange in history the bible was finished being written.. and there is no statements about a change from Saturday to Sunday.. those that followed Jesus kept the sabbath, Paul kept the sabbath.

Gnosticism began to rise up under the influence of philosophers who sought to reconcile Christianity with Paganism. At the same time, a strong anti-Jewish sentiment became more widespread. Very speculative interpretations began to appear regarding some of the great doctrines of Christ and the apostles.

By the time Constantine was established as the emperor of Rome in the early fourth century, there was a decided division in the church as a result of all these factors.

You see, at that time the cult of Mithraism or sun-worship was the official religion of the Roman Empire. It stood as the greatest competitor to the new Christian religion. It had its own organization, temples, priesthood, robes—everything. It also had an official worship day on which special homage was given to the sun. That day was called “The Venerable Day of the Sun.” It was the first day of the week, and from it we get our name Sunday. When Constantine pressed his pagan hordes into the church they were observing the day of the sun for their adoration of the sun god. It was their special holy day.
In order to make it more convenient for them to make the change to the new religion, Constantine accepted their day of worship, Sunday, instead of the Christian Sabbath which had been observed by Jesus and His disciples. Remember that the way had been prepared for this already by the increasing anti-Jewish feelings against those who were accused of putting Jesus to death.

Rome changed it to Sunday by their own authority and admit there is no Biblical reason. I will give you their quotes in the next post..

There were 7th day sabbath keeping christians all through history. But Rome was very powerful in the dark ages.

There is no Biblical reason to change the sabbath to Sunday.

Here is what AI thought of your version of Christian history.

I’ll give you a straight, careful assessment—historically and theologically—because parts of that paragraph touch real issues, but it also overstates and misrepresents several key points.
What the paragraph gets partly right

1. Sunday was called “the Venerable Day of the Sun.”
   That wording does come from Constantine’s civil edict of AD 321, which used pagan-friendly language. Sunday already carried solar associations in Roman culture, and the name dies Solis predates Christianity.
2. Anti-Jewish sentiment influenced early Christian practice.
   This is historically undeniable. After the Jewish revolts (AD 66–135), Roman hostility toward Jews was intense. Many Gentile Christians deliberately distanced themselves from Jewish customs, including Sabbath observance. This pressure did shape church behavior.
3. Rome later claimed authority over church practice.
   The medieval Roman Church did assert authority to define traditions and openly stated that certain practices rested on church authority rather than explicit Scripture.
4. Sabbath-keepers existed beyond the early centuries.
   There is evidence of minority Christian groups (especially on the fringes of the empire and later in medieval dissenting movements) who observed the seventh day.

Where the paragraph is historically inaccurate or misleading
1. “Mithraism was the official religion of the Roman Empire”
This is false.

• Mithraism was never the official religion.
• It was a mystery cult, popular mainly among soldiers and elites.
• It had no public congregational worship, no women, and no empire-wide liturgical structure.
• Sol Invictus, not Mithraism, gained imperial favor under Aurelian (AD 274), and even that was not an exclusive “state religion” in the modern sense.

This sentence alone seriously weakens the paragraph.
2. “It was the greatest competitor to Christianity”
This is an exaggeration.
Christianity’s real competitors were:

• Traditional Greco-Roman polytheism
• Emperor worship
• Later, philosophical paganism

Mithraism was never widespread enough among the general population to rival Christianity.
3. “Constantine pressed his pagan hordes into the church”
This is rhetorical, not historical.

• Constantine legalized Christianity (Edict of Milan, 313).
• He did not force mass conversion.
• Paganism remained dominant for decades after Constantine.
• Christianity did not become the empire’s official religion until Theodosius (AD 380).

4. “Constantine accepted Sunday instead of the Christian Sabbath”
This is anachronistic.

• Christians were already meeting on the first day of the week long before Constantine.
• Second-century sources (Ignatius, Justin Martyr, Didache) clearly attest to Sunday gatherings.
• Constantine did not change Christian worship from Saturday to Sunday.
• His law regulated a day that Christians were already using, but for civil rest, not church doctrine.

This is a crucial correction.
5. “The Christian Sabbath which had been observed by Jesus and His disciples”
This is theologically loaded and historically imprecise.

• Jesus observed the Sabbath as a Jew under the Law.
• The apostles did attend synagogues on Sabbath—but primarily for evangelism.
• The New Testament shows freedom, not command, regarding days (Romans 14:5; Colossians 2:16).

Calling Saturday “the Christian Sabbath” projects a later theological conclusion back into the first century.
6. “Rome changed it to Sunday by their own authority and admit there is no Biblical reason”
This collapses several centuries into one claim.

• Rome later claimed authority over tradition.
• But Sunday observance did not originate with Rome.
• The earliest witnesses to Sunday worship predate any papal authority by over a century.

The deeper issue behind the paragraph
The paragraph reflects a common Sabbatarian polemic that tries to explain Sunday observance as:

• Pagan infiltration
• Imperial coercion
• Roman corruption

While institutional corruption did occur later, this explanation oversimplifies history and ignores early Christian evidence.
Ironically, it does what you often criticize elsewhere: it replaces careful Scripture and history with a tidy narrative.
Bottom line

• The paragraph is partly right in instinct (Rome later abused authority; anti-Jewish pressure mattered).
• It is largely wrong in historical detail.
• It overstates Constantine’s role, misrepresents Mithraism, and ignores first- and second-century Christian practice.
• As written, it would not survive serious historical scrutiny.

 

[TMS]

Law has no authority over dead people. If the law has authority over you, then that means you haven't died with Christ. And if you haven't died with Christ, then that means you aren't reconciled to God. And if you aren't reconciled it means you haven't been raised up into his life. And if you haven't been raised up, then you are not saved.

If we have crucified the flesh we will not sin. It is the flesh that is selfish and wants to transgress the law..

The Spirit does not do any evil. The spirit does not sin.

If the flesh is dead and the Spirit is living in us fully we are not going to sin.
No sin = no transgression = the law has nothing against us. We are free from the penalty of transgressing the law..

But if we live for the flesh = sin = death.

Gal 5:18-21
18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. 19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Flesh = Adultery = transgressing 7th commandment.

 

[Inquisitor]

Catholic statements

After Constantine made the initial legal decree about the change, the Catholic Church reinforced that act in one church council after another. For this reason, many, many official statements from Catholic sources are made, claiming that the church made the change from Saturday to Sunday. But before I read those statements I shall refer to one from the Encyclopedia Britannica under the article, Sunday. Notice: “It was Constantine who first made a law for the proper observance of Sunday and who appointed that it should be regularly celebrated throughout the Roman empire.”

A quote from the Catholic Press newspaper in Sydney, Australia. “Sunday is a Catholic institution and its claims to observance can be defended only on Catholic principles. From the beginning to end of Scripture there is not a single passage that warrants the transfer of weekly public worship from the last day of the week to the first.”

The Catholic Mirror of September 23, 1894, puts it this way: “The Catholic Church for over one thousand years before the existence of a Protestant by virtue of her divine mission, changed the day from Saturday to Sunday.”

From the Convert’s Catechism of Catholic Doctrine by Reverend Peter Giermann. “Question: Which is the Sabbath day? Answer: Saturday is the Sabbath day. Question: Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday? Answer: We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church in the Council of Laodicea transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday.”

From Reverend Steven Keenan’s Doctrinal Catechism we read this: “Question: Have you any other way of proving that the Church has power to institute festivals of precept? Answer: Had she not such power, she could not have done that in which all modern religionists agree with her; she could not have substituted the observance of Sunday, the first day of the week, for the observance of Saturday, the seventh day; a change for which there is no Scriptural authority.”

There is many more but I think you get the picture..

Like I said. A honest study of the first 100+ years after Christ will show that all the faithful followers of Jesus kept the 7th day sabbath.

Here is a more solid understanding of the history of the Catholic Church.

You are basically right in your instinct: there is no single moment when “the Catholic Church” suddenly became dominant in the West, and there is no clean line where the Bishop of Rome flips a switch and becomes “the Pope” in the later medieval sense. What happened was slow, uneven, and often accidental.
I’ll lay this out in clear stages, because that’s the only way it makes historical sense.
1. First–third centuries: Rome has honor, not supremacy (c. AD 100–300)
In the earliest period:

• Christianity is plural and regional.
• Churches are led by bishops who are largely independent.
• Rome is respected because:
  • It is associated with Peter and Paul
  • It is the capital city
  • It has a reputation for orthodoxy and stability

But crucially:

• Rome does not govern other churches
• Councils are regional
• No bishop, including Rome, can issue binding universal decrees

Even early appeals to Rome (e.g., Irenaeus) are about witness and reputation, not jurisdiction.
At this stage, Rome is first among equals, not a supreme authority.
2. Fourth century: Rome gains leverage through empire, not theology (c. AD 300–400)
This is the first major shift.
Constantine (AD 313–337)

• Legalizes Christianity
• Gives bishops social and legal authority
• Makes imperial involvement in church disputes normal

However:

• Constantine does not give Rome supremacy
• He calls councils himself (e.g., Nicaea, 325)
• Eastern bishops dominate theology

Rome’s influence grows because the empire exists, not because of doctrine.
3. Late 4th–5th centuries: Rome fills a vacuum in the West (c. AD 380–500)
This is the real turning point.

• The Western Roman Empire collapses (AD 476)
• Civil authority disintegrates in the West
• The East (Constantinople) remains strong

As a result:

• The bishop of Rome becomes the most stable authority left
• He negotiates with barbarian kings
• He administers relief, justice, and diplomacy

This is political necessity, not apostolic decree.
Leo I (r. 440–461)
This is one of the first bishops of Rome to:

• Explicitly claim Petrine authority
• Speak of Rome as having a unique role

Even then:

• Eastern bishops reject universal supremacy
• Chalcedon (451) accepts Leo’s theology, not his authority

This is still not medieval papacy, but the seeds are planted.
4. Sixth–seventh centuries: Rome becomes dominant in the West, not the East (c. AD 500–700)
By now:

• The West is fragmented
• Communication with the East is difficult
• Rome increasingly acts independently

Key point:
Rome becomes the dominant Western church long before it becomes “supreme” in theory.
It governs:

• Italy
• Much of Gaul
• Eventually Anglo-Saxon England

But it still lacks:

• Universal legal authority
• Control over doctrine without councils

5. Eighth–ninth centuries: Papacy + Frankish power = new authority (c. AD 750–900)
This is huge.

• Rome allies with the Frankish kings
• Pepin and later Charlemagne protect the papacy
• The Papal States are formed
• The Pope crowns Charlemagne (800)

Now Rome is:

• A political ruler
• A religious symbol
• Increasingly independent of Constantinople

This is when Papal authority becomes structural, not just honorary.
6. Tenth–eleventh centuries: Papal supremacy is asserted, not yet universally accepted (c. AD 900–1054)
You are exactly right here.

• Claims of Papal supremacy reach their strongest form very late
• The Great Schism (1054) is largely about:
  • Authority
  • Jurisdiction
  • Who has the right to define orthodoxy

By this point:

• The West has largely accepted Papal primacy
• The East never has

So yes, this is very late in Christian history.
7. When did the Bishop of Rome become “the Pope”?
This depends on what you mean.
If you mean:
“When was he called pope?”

• Papa was used informally for many bishops early on
• It becomes reserved for Rome gradually (6th–7th centuries)

If you mean:
“When did he function like a medieval pope?”

• Not until after AD 800
• Not fully until after AD 1050

There is no exact date, because:

• Authority grew in practice before it was codified
• Theology followed power, not the other way around

Bottom line
Your assessment is sound:

• Rome’s dominance was gradual
• It took centuries
• Papal supremacy was not original
• The Great Schism comes very late
• No one can honestly give a single “start date”

What we can say with confidence is this:

The Roman Church became dominant in the West long before it could convincingly argue that it always had been.​

 

[Gideon300]

By saying the sabbath day does not need to be obeyed, by not keeping the day holy. You are saying that it is not Holy and are defiling it..

This is not judgement. It is fact. Truth.

To keep the sabbath Holy we are given instruction about how.

To rest from labour from sun down Friday night until sundown Saturday night.

Exo 20:8-11
8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: 11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

To keep it holy = to obey the command.

To not obey the commandments is to not keep it holy.

Do you keep this commandment and keep the sabbath Holy?

Anyone would think that man was made for the sabbath, not the sabbath for man. Good luck with observing the sabbath perfectly. There are about 1,000 rules that apply. You are not allowed to clip your nails, according Jewish legal opinion. Turn on the lights? That's work. Have fun. Remember that breaking one commandment is breaking them all. Welcome to a life of slavish obedience and fear of being wrong. You can have to yourself.

 

[TMS]

Which in the New Covenant can be done on Tuesday or Thursday or any other day.

The New Covenant does not say what day we are to rest on

The day that God blessed and made Holy was the 7th day. When man start saying we can keep any day it doesn't matter you are forgetting the Creator and founder of the day.

The new covenant does say which day.. i will write the law on your heart..

The only day that has a blessing on it is the 7th
You can not keep the 3rd or 1st day holy if God never made it Holy.
Exo 31:15
Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.

 

[TMS]

Here is a more solid understanding of the history of the Catholic Church.

You are basically right in your instinct: there is no single moment when “the Catholic Church” suddenly became dominant in the West, and there is no clean line where the Bishop of Rome flips a switch and becomes “the Pope” in the later medieval sense. What happened was slow, uneven, and often accidental.
I’ll lay this out in clear stages, because that’s the only way it makes historical sense.
1. First–third centuries: Rome has honor, not supremacy (c. AD 100–300)
In the earliest period:

• Christianity is plural and regional.
• Churches are led by bishops who are largely independent.
• Rome is respected because:
  • It is associated with Peter and Paul
  • It is the capital city
  • It has a reputation for orthodoxy and stability

But crucially:

• Rome does not govern other churches
• Councils are regional
• No bishop, including Rome, can issue binding universal decrees

Even early appeals to Rome (e.g., Irenaeus) are about witness and reputation, not jurisdiction.
At this stage, Rome is first among equals, not a supreme authority.
2. Fourth century: Rome gains leverage through empire, not theology (c. AD 300–400)
This is the first major shift.
Constantine (AD 313–337)

• Legalizes Christianity
• Gives bishops social and legal authority
• Makes imperial involvement in church disputes normal

However:

• Constantine does not give Rome supremacy
• He calls councils himself (e.g., Nicaea, 325)
• Eastern bishops dominate theology

Rome’s influence grows because the empire exists, not because of doctrine.
3. Late 4th–5th centuries: Rome fills a vacuum in the West (c. AD 380–500)
This is the real turning point.

• The Western Roman Empire collapses (AD 476)
• Civil authority disintegrates in the West
• The East (Constantinople) remains strong

As a result:

• The bishop of Rome becomes the most stable authority left
• He negotiates with barbarian kings
• He administers relief, justice, and diplomacy

This is political necessity, not apostolic decree.
Leo I (r. 440–461)
This is one of the first bishops of Rome to:

• Explicitly claim Petrine authority
• Speak of Rome as having a unique role

Even then:

• Eastern bishops reject universal supremacy
• Chalcedon (451) accepts Leo’s theology, not his authority

This is still not medieval papacy, but the seeds are planted.
4. Sixth–seventh centuries: Rome becomes dominant in the West, not the East (c. AD 500–700)
By now:

• The West is fragmented
• Communication with the East is difficult
• Rome increasingly acts independently

Key point:
Rome becomes the dominant Western church long before it becomes “supreme” in theory.
It governs:

• Italy
• Much of Gaul
• Eventually Anglo-Saxon England

But it still lacks:

• Universal legal authority
• Control over doctrine without councils

5. Eighth–ninth centuries: Papacy + Frankish power = new authority (c. AD 750–900)
This is huge.

• Rome allies with the Frankish kings
• Pepin and later Charlemagne protect the papacy
• The Papal States are formed
• The Pope crowns Charlemagne (800)

Now Rome is:

• A political ruler
• A religious symbol
• Increasingly independent of Constantinople

This is when Papal authority becomes structural, not just honorary.
6. Tenth–eleventh centuries: Papal supremacy is asserted, not yet universally accepted (c. AD 900–1054)
You are exactly right here.

• Claims of Papal supremacy reach their strongest form very late
• The Great Schism (1054) is largely about:
  • Authority
  • Jurisdiction
  • Who has the right to define orthodoxy

By this point:

• The West has largely accepted Papal primacy
• The East never has

So yes, this is very late in Christian history.
7. When did the Bishop of Rome become “the Pope”?
This depends on what you mean.
If you mean:
“When was he called pope?”

• Papa was used informally for many bishops early on
• It becomes reserved for Rome gradually (6th–7th centuries)

If you mean:
“When did he function like a medieval pope?”

• Not until after AD 800
• Not fully until after AD 1050

There is no exact date, because:

• Authority grew in practice before it was codified
• Theology followed power, not the other way around

Bottom line
Your assessment is sound:

• Rome’s dominance was gradual
• It took centuries
• Papal supremacy was not original
• The Great Schism comes very late
• No one can honestly give a single “start date”

What we can say with confidence is this:

The Roman Church became dominant in the West long before it could convincingly argue that it always had been.​

AI DOES NOT make it truth.
You can use AI to assess every statement
And claim it is true or not true but be careful because it is taking the majority of things written and recorded.

The majority were wrong in Christ's day.
The majority were wrong in the time of Noah.
The majority will be wrong in the last days. Before Jesus comes again..

I said plainly that AI isn't always write because the majority and most powerful can influence what is believed as truth.

If I need to choose between AI and the bible I will choose the bible.

 

[TMS]

Anyone would think that man was made for the sabbath, not the sabbath for man. Good luck with observing the sabbath perfectly. There are about 1,000 rules that apply. You are not allowed to clip your nails, according Jewish legal opinion. Turn on the lights? That's work. Have fun. Remember that breaking one commandment is breaking them all. Welcome to a life of slavish obedience and fear of being wrong. You can have to yourself.

I've been keeping it for many years, over 25, and it is a wonderful blessing.
The sabbath is so good, I look forward to it each week and it is great for my spiritual walk.. I spend time with my saviour and can see why God gave it to us.
It is a blessing.

I'm not sure where those 1000 rules are in the bible.. and the Jews made alot of rules that God never intended.

It's not a slavish fearful thing, it is a blessing. Maybe you should try it.

 

[memberofthebride]

By your own admission, you are not born again. Therefore, you are not obeying Christ. Nicodemus was one of Israel's elites, but Lord Jesus told him that he must be born again. Your foundation is false. All your efforts are of self. They must be, because you are spiritually dead. I'm not condemning you. Your own words condemn you. The word of God calls your works dead. I wish I could say otherwise.

Gideon
Here are the Words of Jesus Christ that you are referring to

4Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

Nicodemus's question shows he is envisioning an actual birth.

5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and [of] the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

When a women's water breaks, birth takes place, and a flesh and blood human is born.
When a person is born OF THE SPIRIT - that person IS SPIRIT..
The kingdom/the Family of GOD IS SPIRIT
only spirit can be in a spirit family


6That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit --- is spirit.

See how Christ clears this distinction up -- born of water IS FLESH
and Born of Spirit -- IS SPIRIT -- not flesh

7Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

Born for the 2nd time and that word "again" is "born from above". not born again

8The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

How can you not understand these words of Christ? every one born of the spirit is like the wind but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: they are NO LONGER flesh and blood --- they are like Jesus Christ is now -- 100% Spirit and can reveal Him self it what every form He wants or be invisible to the human eye.
No human can see those born of the spirit as they move about.

I am sure you can not make yourself pass through stone walls or become invisible to the human eye.

But -- but I am aware this explanation can not change your mind.

 

[memberofthebride]

17When Jesus heard [it], he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin - is - the transgression of the law.

Sorry, I must believe the words my Master caused to be written IN HIS WORD

before I was called - I loved sin, it was great fun, now I abhor it and I see every single day what the transgression of the law is doing to the entire world.

I am close to the end of my ninth decade I have never seen - ever before -- the devastation, the pain and suffering sin - the transgression of the law. - is causing world wide and it will only get worse.

Every single one of you that desire the Torah be abolished will soon come to regret that desire.

 

[mailmandan]

Anyone would think that man was made for the sabbath, not the sabbath for man. Good luck with observing the sabbath perfectly. There are about 1,000 rules that apply. You are not allowed to clip your nails, according Jewish legal opinion. Turn on the lights? That's work. Have fun. Remember that breaking one commandment is breaking them all. Welcome to a life of slavish obedience and fear of being wrong. You can have to yourself.

There was more to keeping the sabbath day than simply resting on a certain day. Also notice who God was addressing and what covenant they were under.

Exodus 16:1 - And they journeyed from Elim, and all the congregation of the children of Israel came to the Wilderness of Sin, which is between Elim and Sinai, on the fifteenth day of the second month after they departed from the land of Egypt... 23 - Then he said to them, "This is what the Lord has said: Tomorrow is a Sabbath rest, a holy Sabbath to the Lord. Bake what you will bake today, and boil what you will boil; and lay up for yourselves all that remains, to be kept until morning." 24 So they laid it up till morning, as Moses commanded; and it did not stink, nor were there any worms in it. 25 Then Moses said, “Eat that today, for today is a Sabbath to the Lord; today you will not find it in the field. 26 Six days you shall gather it, but on the seventh day, the Sabbath, there will be none.” 27 Now it happened that some of the people went out on the seventh day to gather, but they found none. 28 And the Lord said to Moses, “How long do YOU refuse to keep My commandments and My laws? 29 See! For the Lord has given you the Sabbath; therefore, He gives you on the sixth day bread for two days. Let every man remain in his place; let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.”

Exodus 20:2 - I am the Lord your God, who brought YOU out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage... 8 Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.

Exodus 31:14 - YOU shall keep the Sabbath, therefore, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people. 15 Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh is the Sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death. 16 Therefore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant.

Exodus 35:1 - Then Moses gathered all the congregation of the children of Israel together, and said to them, “These are the words which the Lord has commanded you to do: 2 Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh day shall be a holy day for YOU, a Sabbath of rest to the Lord. Whoever does any work on it shall be put to death. 3 You shall kindle no fire throughout your dwellings on the Sabbath day.”

Deuteronomy 5:1 - And Moses called all Israel, and said to them: “Hear, O Israel, the statutes and judgments which I speak in your hearing today, that you may learn them and be careful to observe them... 12 ‘Observe the Sabbath day, to keep it holy, as the Lord your God commanded you. 13 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 14 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it YOU shall do no work: YOU, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your ox, nor your donkey, nor any of your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates, that your male servant and your female servant may rest as well as YOU. 15 And remember that YOU were a slave in the land of Egypt, and the Lord your God brought YOU out from there by a mighty hand and by an outstretched arm; therefore, the Lord your God commanded YOU to keep the Sabbath day.

Numbers 15:32 - Now while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man gathering sticks on the Sabbath day. 33 And those who found him gathering sticks brought him to Moses and Aaron, and to all the congregation. 34 They put him under guard, because it had not been explained what should be done to him. 35 Then the Lord said to Moses, “The man must surely be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him with stones outside the camp.” 36 So, as the Lord commanded Moses, all the congregation brought him outside the camp and stoned him with stones, and he died.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Flesh = Adultery = transgressing 7th commandment.

Love of God is believing and trusting his words. When we hearken to and do this command, then commandments 1-4 have been obeyed.

Love of man is not doing harm to our fellow man and treating them like we want to be treated. When we hearken to and do these two commands, then commandments 5-10 have been obeyed.

That's how it works. Follow the spirit's command to believe God and love man, and the 10 commandments aren't transgressed because the righteousness demanded by the 10 commandments isn't transgressed when those 2 things are the righteousness the 10 commandments demand.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

Who is Israel

Exo 4:22 Then you shall say to Pharaoh, 'Thus says the LORD: "Israel is My son, My firstborn.
Hos 11:1 "When Israel was a child, I loved him, And out of Egypt I called My son.

Israel has always represented God's people. If Israel was only literal God's "firstborn" would be Adam.

Are we not called to be sons and daughters of God? Is God not our Redeemer from the slavery of sin?

The New Covenant is still written to Israel

Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

God only has one people, we are grafted into God's Israel and part of the promises through faith Gal3:26-29 and God's people keep God's commandments Rev14:12 that only He can define because He is God and they are His Exo20:6 Deut4:13 Rev11:19

 

[SabbathBlessing]

Love of God is believing and trusting his words. When we hearken to and do this command, then commandments 1-4 have been obeyed.

Love of man is not doing harm to our fellow man and treating them like we want to be treated. When we hearken to and do these two commands, then commandments 5-10 have been obeyed.

That's how it works. Follow the spirit's command to believe God and love man, and the 10 commandments aren't transgressed because the righteousness demanded by the 10 commandments isn't transgressed when those 2 things are the righteousness the 10 commandments demand.

The constitution is summarized by justice. Does the summary delete all of the amendments? Can we claim we are doing justice and than break the actual details of the amendments and not think there will be any consequences? I think a lot of people are deceiving themselves in thinking loving God means not keeping God's commandments and the details of what those are that God personally and literally wrote out. Exo20:6 Exo31:18 Deut 4:13 1John5:2-3

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

The constitution is summarized by justice. Does the summary delete all of the amendments? Can we claim we are doing justice and than break the actual details of the amendments and not think there will be any consequences? I think a lot of people are deceiving themselves in thinking loving God means not keeping God's commandments and the details of what those are that God personally and literally wrote out. Exo20:6 Exo31:18 Deut 4:13 1John5:2-3

The holy spirit is not the law of Moses, so non sequitur. The spirit is it's own law. Follow it and you don't have to follow the 10 commandments to do the righteousness they demand.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

The holy spirit is not the law of Moses, so non sequitur. The spirit is it's own law. Follow it and you don't have to follow the 10 commandments to do the righteousness they demand.

I never said the Holy Spirit is the law of Moses, not sure where you got that from, but the Ten Commandments is the Law of God thus saith the Lord Exo20:6 Deut4:13 written by God, the One who created you, me, Moses and everything in the entire Universe, not man Exo31:18

This is not really a response to my post. But that's okay. Take care

 

[NightTwister]

The constitution is summarized by justice. Does the summary delete all of the amendments? Can we claim we are doing justice and than break the actual details of the amendments and not think there will be any consequences? I think a lot of people are deceiving themselves in thinking loving God means not keeping God's commandments and the details of what those are that God personally and literally wrote out. Exo20:6 Exo31:18 Deut 4:13 1John5:2-3

There have been some silly arguments on this thread, but this might be the silliest one of all.