Acts 2:38 Comparison: Evangelical vs. Oneness / Baptismal-Regeneration View

[Ouch]

Mk 16:17 says these signs shall follow them that believe—it does not say every believer will do all of them. If your reading is right, then every true believer must cast out devils, speak with new tongues, take up serpents, drink poison unharmed & heal the sick. You can't actually believe that.

Acts is descriptive, not a universal formula. Thousands are saved in Acts with no tongues mentioned (Acts 2, 4:4, 8:39, 11:21, 16, 17, 18, 19:18). If tongues are required for rebirth, Luke forgot to record the "proof" for MOST conversions.

Paul settles this in 1 Cor 12: "Do all speak with tongues?" The implied answer is no. Gifts differ & the Spirit distributes as He wills (12:4–11, 29–30). If tongues = salvation, then Most of those converted on Acts are actually unsaved. Yet, Luke records them as SAVED!

Paul writes 13 books & he never says, never implies, never hints & never suggests that speaking in tongues is a requirement for salvation.

But he did say:

Acts 16:31, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved.

Romans 1:16, The gospel is the power of God unto salvation to everyone who believes.

Eph 2:8–9 — Saved by grace through faith, not works.

Eph 1:
13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,

14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

"""Wen you HEARD the message of truth""", """The gospel of your salvation""". """When you believed""", """you were marked in him with a seal""" a deposit guaranteeing your inheritance & redemption > """the promised Holy Spirit"""! Amen

It really does say THEY SHALL not some.

Suprize I BELIEVE ALL OF HIS WORD.

So to you it has to say it EVERYTIME?

But you can't show ME ONE verse where HIS word says faith removes your sins.

So 4 times veses "0".

Paul is speaking to those who have been reborn, NOT THOSE WHO HAVE NOT.

13 Books? Anyway thats BECAUSE HE'S NOT TALKING TO THE UNSAVED.

YOU WILL NOT SEE ONE PLACE WHERE PAUL TELLS ANYONE WHAT THEY HAVE TO DO TO BE SAVED, BECAUSE HE'S TALKING TO CHURCHS NOT THE UNSAVED!!!!

Which include Romans and Eph.

Can you tell me WHAT THE GOSPEL OF YOUR SALVATION WAS?

JESUS SAID, WE HAVE TO BE BORN OF WATER AND OF SPIRIT, SO SINCE YOU DIDN'T TELL ME WHO WAS THE LIAR, AND STILL DEBATING IT, YOUR SAYING JESUS IS.

 

[Wansvic]

Is this "Holy Ghost dwelling inside their body" something perceptible or simply taken for granted?

Does someone's claim of having the indwelling of the Holy Spirit hold any weight in spiritual debates?

I am not implying that anyone here doing this but isn't such claims simply metaphysical?

Is there any way someone can prove such a claim?

Scripture indicates speaking in tongues occurs when the Holy Ghost enters one's body. (Acts 2:4, 33) Afterward, the fruit of the Spirit is evidence of His enduring presence. (Gal. 5:22-23)

Again, scripture reveals evidence accompanies the initial experience:

1. In the Samaritan account people knew when they experienced the indwelling. The individual's had not received the Holy Ghost when they believed in Jesus and were water baptized in His name. The opposite was true days later; everyone knew they had received the Holy Ghost. (Acts 8:12-18) Lack of a direct reference to tongues is irrelevant in light of the fact that all other accounts providing specific details reveal speaking in tongues occurs.

2. Paul's question, "Have you received the Holy Ghost SINCE you believed?" indicates there is evidence of the experience. (Acts 19)

Also, Jesus said the Heavenly Father will give the Holy Ghost to those who ask. (Luke 11:13) His comment indicates people know whether or not they have the Holy Ghost. Again, there is evidence.

 

[Lamar]

Scripture indicates speaking in tongues occurs when the Holy Ghost enters one's body. (Acts 2:4, 33) Afterward, the fruit of the Spirit is evidence of His enduring presence. (Gal. 5:22-23)

Again, scripture reveals evidence accompanies the initial experience:

1. In the Samaritan account people knew when they experienced the indwelling. The individual's had not received the Holy Ghost when they believed in Jesus and were water baptized in His name. The opposite was true days later; everyone knew they had received the Holy Ghost. (Acts 8:12-18) Lack of a direct reference to tongues is irrelevant in light of the fact that all other accounts providing specific details reveal speaking in tongues occurs.

2. Paul's question, "Have you received the Holy Ghost SINCE you believed?" indicates there is evidence of the experience. (Acts 19)

Also, Jesus said the Heavenly Father will give the Holy Ghost to those who ask. (Luke 11:13) His comment indicates people know whether or not they have the Holy Ghost. Again, there is evidence.

I ask this with respect.

Are you implying that claims of having the supernatural ability to speak in tongues is the evidence of having received the gift of the Holy Spirit?

Please do not read any malice into my question, I am simply trying to understand your answer.

 

[Biilybob65]

Waiting to hear your response to Lamar

 

[Wansvic]

I want you to answer me this one question.
Here is the scriptures do you see the spirit coming upon anyone other than the Apostles and Cornelius household as recorded in Acts 2 and chapter 10? Where do you read it happened that way again other than those 2 places.?I am talking about in the same manner as it did there.

After you answer this with the scriptures to support it we will discuss this more.

I provided the scripture references in the post you replied to.

 

[Wansvic]

My response to your #1
Yes they believed and got baptized at which point they received remission of sin and the indwelling spirit as according to Acts 2:38
They did not receive the power of witness because it is not promised to all it is not what the indwelling is for. The indwelling is to strengthen our walk in the light a comforter and guidance that produces the fruit in us.

Philip needs to continue his mission in planting new churches so he calls on the Apostles to lay hands on these to impart the power of witness so they can grow the newly planted church while Philip and the apostles continue their work of planting churches.

The laying on of hands is not them giving them the indwelling but the power to witness. Jesus gave them the indwelling when they were baptized in his name. There is a difference we need to study what the scriptures say is the difference.

In response to your #2

Paul assume that if you believe you are baptized in Christ name for they go hand in hand believe and be baptized. Here he assumed they had received the indwelling spirit because they had been baptized but learnt they were baptized in the wrong baptism and he corrected it so that they could receive the promised indwelling spirit as in Acts 2:38,30. Like Philip in Acts 8 Paul had to continue his mission aboard so he laid hands on them to transfer the power of witness so these men can grow the church in his absence.

I disagree.

 

[Wansvic]

I ask this with respect.

Are you implying that claims of having the supernatural ability to speak in tongues is the evidence of having received the gift of the Holy Spirit?

Please do not read any malice into my question, I am simply trying to understand your answer.

Yes. Speaking in tongues is the sign that the Holy Ghost has entered into the body of a believer. This is revealed and confirmed in scripture.

 

[Lamar]

Yes. Speaking in tongues is the sign that the Holy Ghost has entered into the body of a believer. This is revealed and confirmed in scripture.

I understand but since no one today has been able to authenticate this sign does this not create a problem?

What does this mean for all those who claim this supernatural ability but by all appearances do not have it?

 

[FlyingDove]

Takes a lot of talking to prove HIS WORD WRONG,

Finally:
The only thing that removes sin from the soul is faith placed in the finished, sacrificial, sin‑atoning work of our great God & Savior, Jesus Christ. Amen.

Why did Peter say this?

Acts 2:38-39
King James Version
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Why did Ananias say this?

Acts 22:16
King James Version
16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Do you know more than them???

Of course your opinion is wrong and HIS word is right.

It's not too late to repent.

Don't forget you need the Holy Ghost also to enter.

Christ's finished work replaced the Mosaic law purification role of water (John' Baptism of Repentance), not the practice of baptism. Water baptism continues because the risen Jesus commanded it. Not as a purification ritual or a means of remission, but as a discipleship marker & a public identification with His death & resurrection. The real, effective baptism that PURIFIES & unites us to Christ is performed by the risen High Priest through the Holy Spirit baptism (1 Cor 12:13).

Tongues appear only three times in Acts. And every time, it's for a specific covenant‑expansion purpose & not a salvation pattern:

Jews Acts 2, Sign of New Covenant arrival to Israel.

Gentiles Acts 10, Proof Gentiles are included apart from Mosaic Law.

John the Baptist' disciples, Correction event > showing John's baptism is obsolete.

Three groups. 3 new covenant expansion events > 3 signs, NOT a formula, NOT a pattern & NOT a requirement.

Tongues weren't universal in the book of Acts:
Thousands were saved in Acts 2, 3k saved, Acts 4:4, 5k men saved, Acts 8:39, Ethiopian eunuch, Acts 9, Paul saved, Acts 11:21, "a great number believed, Acts 16, Lydia & Phil jailer saved, Acts 17, Thessalonians saved, Acts 18, Corinthians saved, Acts 19:18, many saved. NONE OF THESE MENTIONED INCLUE TONGUES.

Here's where your "tongues = salvation" doctrine" fails. Paul asks:
Do all speak with tongues? (1 Cor 12:30). Paul says:
Gifts differ (1 Cor 12:4–6). The Spirit distributes as He wills (1 Cor 12:11). Not all have the same gifts (1 Cor 12:29–30)

The tongues = salvation doctrine that YOU DEMAND doesn't line up with scripture.

Paul gives the universal NT pattern for the Body of Christ:
The gospel (1 Cor 15:1–4), Faith/belief in Christ (Eph 2:8–9), Union = placed into the Body by the Holy Spirit (1 Cor 12:13).

Eph 1:
13 In Him, you also, when you heard the word of truth, the good news of your salvation, and [as a result] believed in Him, were stamped with the seal of the promised Holy Spirit [the One promised by Christ] as owned and protected [by God].

14 The Spirit is the guarantee [the first installment, the pledge, a foretaste] of our inheritance until the redemption of God’s own [purchased] possession [His believers], to the praise of His glory.

God's Holy Spirit gift (Acts 10:45 & 11:16-17) accessed thru FAITH (ROM 5:1-2) is a FOREVER (Jn 14:16) SEAL (Eph 1:13-14, 4:30, 2 Cor 1:22, 5:5, 2 Tim 1:14). Amen

 

[Biilybob65]

I disagree.

Can you elaborate as to why you disagree? I know you think you have but I would like to try to take this one step at time stating over here.

 

[Biilybob65]

Yes. Speaking in tongues is the sign that the Holy Ghost has entered into the body of a believer. This is revealed and confirmed in scripture.

( have to disagree and think scripture will show we misunderstand what it is revealing.

 

[Biilybob65]

I understand but since no one today has been able to authenticate this sign does this not create a problem?

What does this mean for all those who claim this supernatural ability but by all appearances do not have it?

I understand but since no one today has been able to authenticate this sign does this not create a problem?

What does this mean for all those who claim this supernatural ability but by all appearances do not have it?

Great question waiting for the response.

 

[Ouch]

Christ's finished work replaced the Mosaic law purification role of water (John' Baptism of Repentance), not the practice of baptism. Water baptism continues because the risen Jesus commanded it. Not as a purification ritual or a means of remission, but as a discipleship marker & a public identification with His death & resurrection. The real, effective baptism that PURIFIES & unites us to Christ is performed by the risen High Priest through the Holy Spirit baptism (1 Cor 12:13).

Tongues appear only three times in Acts. And every time, it's for a specific covenant‑expansion purpose & not a salvation pattern:

Jews Acts 2, Sign of New Covenant arrival to Israel.

Gentiles Acts 10, Proof Gentiles are included apart from Mosaic Law.

John the Baptist' disciples, Correction event > showing John's baptism is obsolete.

Three groups. 3 new covenant expansion events > 3 signs, NOT a formula, NOT a pattern & NOT a requirement.

Tongues weren't universal in the book of Acts:
Thousands were saved in Acts 2, 3k saved, Acts 4:4, 5k men saved, Acts 8:39, Ethiopian eunuch, Acts 9, Paul saved, Acts 11:21, "a great number believed, Acts 16, Lydia & Phil jailer saved, Acts 17, Thessalonians saved, Acts 18, Corinthians saved, Acts 19:18, many saved. NONE OF THESE MENTIONED INCLUE TONGUES.

Here's where your "tongues = salvation" doctrine" fails. Paul asks:
Do all speak with tongues? (1 Cor 12:30). Paul says:
Gifts differ (1 Cor 12:4–6). The Spirit distributes as He wills (1 Cor 12:11). Not all have the same gifts (1 Cor 12:29–30)

The tongues = salvation doctrine that YOU DEMAND doesn't line up with scripture.

Paul gives the universal NT pattern for the Body of Christ:
The gospel (1 Cor 15:1–4), Faith/belief in Christ (Eph 2:8–9), Union = placed into the Body by the Holy Spirit (1 Cor 12:13).

Eph 1:
13 In Him, you also, when you heard the word of truth, the good news of your salvation, and [as a result] believed in Him, were stamped with the seal of the promised Holy Spirit [the One promised by Christ] as owned and protected [by God].

14 The Spirit is the guarantee [the first installment, the pledge, a foretaste] of our inheritance until the redemption of God’s own [purchased] possession [His believers], to the praise of His glory.

God's Holy Spirit gift (Acts 10:45 & 11:16-17) accessed thru FAITH (ROM 5:1-2) is a FOREVER (Jn 14:16) SEAL (Eph 1:13-14, 4:30, 2 Cor 1:22, 5:5, 2 Tim 1:14). Amen

Just because you say so it's true!!

FYI, Paul is speaking to churchs he started not the unsaved.

You will not find one place where Paul gives in struction on how to be saved.

Paul was reborn via the book of Acts Baptized in JESUS name and spoke in tongues, proving it's for all.

If you want to follow him, follow him!!

The only reason I'm responding is what you are saying is not true.

Best of luck.

 

[Ouch]

Christ's finished work replaced the Mosaic law purification role of water (John' Baptism of Repentance), not the practice of baptism. Water baptism continues because the risen Jesus commanded it. Not as a purification ritual or a means of remission, but as a discipleship marker & a public identification with His death & resurrection. The real, effective baptism that PURIFIES & unites us to Christ is performed by the risen High Priest through the Holy Spirit baptism (1 Cor 12:13).

Tongues appear only three times in Acts. And every time, it's for a specific covenant‑expansion purpose & not a salvation pattern:

Jews Acts 2, Sign of New Covenant arrival to Israel.

Gentiles Acts 10, Proof Gentiles are included apart from Mosaic Law.

John the Baptist' disciples, Correction event > showing John's baptism is obsolete.

Three groups. 3 new covenant expansion events > 3 signs, NOT a formula, NOT a pattern & NOT a requirement.

Tongues weren't universal in the book of Acts:
Thousands were saved in Acts 2, 3k saved, Acts 4:4, 5k men saved, Acts 8:39, Ethiopian eunuch, Acts 9, Paul saved, Acts 11:21, "a great number believed, Acts 16, Lydia & Phil jailer saved, Acts 17, Thessalonians saved, Acts 18, Corinthians saved, Acts 19:18, many saved. NONE OF THESE MENTIONED INCLUE TONGUES.

Here's where your "tongues = salvation" doctrine" fails. Paul asks:
Do all speak with tongues? (1 Cor 12:30). Paul says:
Gifts differ (1 Cor 12:4–6). The Spirit distributes as He wills (1 Cor 12:11). Not all have the same gifts (1 Cor 12:29–30)

The tongues = salvation doctrine that YOU DEMAND doesn't line up with scripture.

Paul gives the universal NT pattern for the Body of Christ:
The gospel (1 Cor 15:1–4), Faith/belief in Christ (Eph 2:8–9), Union = placed into the Body by the Holy Spirit (1 Cor 12:13).

Eph 1:
13 In Him, you also, when you heard the word of truth, the good news of your salvation, and [as a result] believed in Him, were stamped with the seal of the promised Holy Spirit [the One promised by Christ] as owned and protected [by God].

14 The Spirit is the guarantee [the first installment, the pledge, a foretaste] of our inheritance until the redemption of God’s own [purchased] possession [His believers], to the praise of His glory.

God's Holy Spirit gift (Acts 10:45 & 11:16-17) accessed thru FAITH (ROM 5:1-2) is a FOREVER (Jn 14:16) SEAL (Eph 1:13-14, 4:30, 2 Cor 1:22, 5:5, 2 Tim 1:14). Amen

Why I say it's not true.

PROVE THIS TO BE TRUE OR IT'S A LIE.

"Not as a purification ritual or a means of remission, but as a discipleship marker & a public identification with His death & resurrection"

PROVE THIS TO BE TRUE OR IT'S A LIE.

The real, effective baptism that PURIFIES & unites us to Christ is performed by the risen High Priest through the Holy Spirit baptism (1 Cor 12:13).

There are more after you prove those two, can you prove one?

 

[FlyingDove]

Just because you say so it's true!!

FYI, Paul is speaking to churchs he started not the unsaved.

You will not find one place where Paul gives in struction on how to be saved.

Paul was reborn via the book of Acts Baptized in JESUS name and spoke in tongues, proving it's for all.

If you want to follow him, follow him!!

The only reason I'm responding is what you are saying is not true.

Best of luck.

Typical, you didn't answer a single passage I cited—you just asserted "not true" & moved on. Let's go to the text.

You claim "Paul never gives instructions on how to be saved." That's simply false.
1 Cor 15:1–4, Paul explicitly defines the """gospel by which we are saved""" is: "Christ died for our sins, was buried & rose again."

Rom 1:16, The gospel, (cited 1 Cor 15:1-4) is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believes.

Rom 10:9–13, If you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved & "whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”

Acts 16:30–31, When the jailer asks, "“What must I do to be saved?" Paul doesnt say "speak in tongues." He says, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved."

Those are explicit salvation instructions. You can't just wave them away by saying "Paul was talking to churches."

You falsely claim: Paul was reborn in Acts, baptized in Jesus' name & spoke in tongues, proving its for all. Sorry Acts NEVER says Paul spoke in tongues at his conversion. Acts 9:17–18, He's filled with the Spirit & baptized. NO TONGUES MENTIONED!
Acts 22 & 26, Paul retells his conversion twice. NO TONGUES MENTIONED!

1 Cor 14:18, Paul says, "I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than you all," BUT that's about his gifted ministry, not his conversion pattern. Even if Paul did speak in tongues at some point, that doesn't make it a universal requirement.

Paul himself asks: "Do all speak with tongues?" (1 Cor 12:30). If tongues were required for salvation, Paul could never ask that question. This bankrupts you repeated false claim - tongues = salvation.

Here again this bankrupts your repeated false claim > "tongues = salvation" that contradicts Paul's own teaching.
Paul says:
Not all have the same gifts (1 Cor 12:4–6, 29–30). The Spirit distributes gifts as He wills (1 Cor 12:11). If anyone does not have the Spirit, he is none of His (Rom 8:9). We are sealed with the Spirit when we believe (Eph 1:13–14).

If tongues were the proof of salvation, then:
All would have to speak in tongues (contradicting 1 Cor 12:30). The Spirit would not distribute "as He wills" but as you demand. No one could be saved at the moment of faith without a sign gift—contradicting Eph 1:13 & Rom 5:1–2.

The actual NT pattern is still the same:
Message: the gospel (1 Cor 15:1–4), Faith: belief in Christ (Eph 2:8–9), Holy Spirit SEALS the believer at the moment of belief (Eph 1:13–14), Union/placed into the Body by the Holy Spirit (1 Cor 12:13)

Tongues appear in Acts as signs at key covenant‑expansion moments (Acts 2, 10, 19). NOT as a universal salvation formula. You haven't refuted that, you've just ignored it.

So no, salvation is not "message + tongues."” It's grace through faith in Christ, sealed by the Spirit, with gifts distributed as He wills—not as YOU legislate.

 

[FlyingDove]

Why I say it's not true.

PROVE THIS TO BE TRUE OR IT'S A LIE.

"Not as a purification ritual or a means of remission, but as a discipleship marker & a public identification with His death & resurrection"

PROVE THIS TO BE TRUE OR IT'S A LIE.

The real, effective baptism that PURIFIES & unites us to Christ is performed by the risen High Priest through the Holy Spirit baptism (1 Cor 12:13).

There are more after you prove those two, can you prove one?

Acts 15:8–9. Peter says God "gave gentiles the Holy Spirit just as He did to us at Pentecost "purifying" their hearts by FAITH."

That's Peter explanation of what happened at Cornelius house. Purification was by faith, not by water, not by tongues, not by ritual. God made "no distinction" & purified them the same way He purified the apostles — by faith.

Eph 1:
13 In Him, you also, when you heard the word of truth, the good news of your salvation, and [as a result] believed in Him, were stamped with the seal of the promised Holy Spirit [the One promised by Christ] as owned and protected [by God].

14 The Spirit is the guarantee [the first installment, the pledge, a foretaste] of our inheritance until the redemption of God’s own [purchased] possession [His believers], to the praise of His glory.

Rom 5:1–2, access to grace by faith.

1 Cor 12:13 — Holy Spirit baptism places us into the Body

1 Cor 12:30. not all speak with tongues

Heb 9:22, remission is by blood, not water
You asked for proof.
Peter gave it.

If your doctrine requires tongues or water to purify, you’re contradicting Peter, Paul, & the entire Jerusalem Council.

 

[Biilybob65]

Part 1

Before the New Testament was completed, while it was still being written, in certain places and at certain times, God gave special miraculous manifestations of the Holy Spirit's help of the churches.

These gifts were necessary in the days of the infancy of the church when as yet the body of perfectly revealed truth was incomplete. They were temporary measures designed for a special purpose.

"Here the apostle called the supernatural endowments of the first Christians GIFTS, because they were foretold under that name (Psalms 68:18; Ephesians 4:8)."9 They are also referred to in the several terms of Hebrews 2:4 as "signs and wonders, and manifold powers, and gifts of the Holy Spirit, according to his own will." All such supernatural wonders were scheduled to disappear (1 Corinthians 13:8); and their unique purpose was that of "confirming" the word of God (Mark 16:20), certainly not that of flattering the ego of Corinthian charismatics.

To profit withal ... "This means that they were for the common good; the spiritual gifts were to benefit others"12 Charismatic gifts were being utilized by the Corinthians for self-promotion, especially the more spectacular and showy gifts like tongue-speakings. This, of course, was totally wrong and contrary to God's purpose.

 

[Biilybob65]

Part 2
Five other miraculous gifts are enumerated here, making nine mentioned in this paragraph.

Working of miracles ... It appears that miracles would be a greater gift than healings, mentioned above them; but McGarvey thought that these included miracles of judgment such as those executed upon Elymas, Ananias and Sapphira, saying that "The miracles of mercy stand higher in God's esteem than those which execute his judgments and mete out punishment."18

Prophecy ... Gifts of prophecy, including the ability to foretell future events, were the endowment of certain Christians in the apostolic age; and there would appear to have been two orders of these, the higher including those mentioned under 1 Corinthians 12:8, and others whose ability concerned the prediction of events such as those prophesied by Agabus (Acts 11:28; 21:11).

Discernings of spirits ... This was a gift enabling its possessor to identify and expose false teachers. Presumably this gift was held by all of the apostles and prophets of the new dispensation as well as by other persons not so generally known.

Divers kinds of tongues ... The nature of the tongue speaking Paul discussed in these chapters has been the subject of much disagreement. Many of the older commentators have held that only one kind is mentioned in the New Testament, that being the miracle of Pentecost in which the apostles spoke in tongues and were understood by all who heard them, each in his own language. McGarvey and Lipscomb both understood it thus. Nevertheless, there appears to be insurmountable difficulties in such an understanding of what is in view here. "Kinds of tongues" forbids the idea of there having been only one kind; and, besides that, the special gift of interpreting tongues mentioned a moment later and the absolute necessity of having an interpreter (as mentioned in 1 Corinthians 14:27,28) make it impossible to identify the "tongues" discussed here with the miracle of Pentecost. There was no interpreter then! For those who might be interested in a further examination of the interpretation that only the speaking of foreign languages unknown to the speaker (but spoken miraculously) is meant here, James Macknight treats it extensively. John Peter Lange, Adam Clarke, Matthew Henry, and John Calvin all held this view; and despite the reluctance of this student to disagree with such giants of exegesis, in conscience it must be done. The lack of any need to interpret on Pentecost, plus the opinion of outsiders that the tongue speakers were "mad" (1 Corinthians 14:23); plus the fact that there were many of them engaging in this activity all at once, requiring Paul to restrict it to one at a time (1 Corinthians 14:27); plus the impression that inevitably comes from reading the entire context - all of these things support the conclusion that the phenomenon was different from that of Pentecost.

Why was it? Why did not Paul condemn it out of hand, instead of containing it by a series of regulations clearly designed to discourage and diminish it? We do not certainly know. Yet we shall hazard the opinion that whatever purpose of the divine mind was fulfilled by it, the Corinthians had contravened it by their shameless distortion and abuse of it.

Interpretation of tongues ... This is perhaps the key to understanding the whole passage. Through the influence of God's Spirit some could speak languages they had never learned; but for this to do any good at all, someone was required to interpret what was said, the ability to do so being the "gift" in view here. Furthermore, such a thing raises all kinds of questions. Some have supposed that both gifts of tongues and interpretations were held by the same individual; but, if that is so, why did not such an individual speak in the proper language to begin with? On the other hand if the gifts were not joined in one individual, then only on the mission field could there have been any utility whatever in it. Perhaps it was this abuse of a genuine gift God had intended for missionary work, making it a plaything and diversion in an established church, which was the thing being done in Corinth. Despite abuses, however, there was a genuine gift, which appears from Paul's words that he "spoke with tongues more than ye all" (1 Corinthians 14:18), and also his admonition, "forbid not to speak with tongues" (1 Corinthians 14:39). Paul's firm declaration, however, to the effect that he certainly would not speak with tongues in Corinth (1 Corinthians 14:6ff) would strongly indicate that whatever the gift was, it did not belong in the assembly of Christians; and this agrees with the dogmatic statement that tongues were a sign "not to them that believe, but to the unbelieving" (1 Corinthians 14:22). From this, it has to be inferred that any tongue speaking Paul did, it was in the mission field, and for the purpose of reaching people whose language he did not know. The fact of Paul's doing such a thing at all, coupled with his refusal to do it in the presence of believers, emphasizes the limited nature of the gift and also refutes the conceit that what he did was merely ecstatic jabbering. The Corinthians had probably prostituted the gift to that low level; but Paul would never have done so. The fact of his having used the gift himself, however, and the knowledge of its true utility (in certain limited circumstances, and for that age only), were doubtless the facts underlying his refusal to denounce and forbid the thing altogether.

 

[Biilybob65]

Part 3
The conclusion, therefore, is valid, which may be summarized thus:

All of the nine gifts in view here were miraculous.

All disappeared completely at the end of the apostolic age.

The mess at Corinth was a mingling of the true gift of tongues with emotional and psychologically induced ecstatic utterances, which were not miraculous at all but nonsense.

A further element of the disorder was the perversion and prostitution of the true gifts (on the part of a few), making it a device of self-glorification.

It was this mixture of genuine and false elements which made it impossible for Paul to condemn the false without appearing also to condemn the true gift. Remember, he was not present, but was writing a letter.

Therefore, he laid down the rules which would eliminate and destroy the false, but which would leave undisturbed the true gift.

Thus, there were three kinds of tongues in New Testament times: (1) those spoken by the apostles on Pentecost, (2) the gift of tongues in this passage which required an interpreter, and (3) the false tongues which had invaded Corinth.

Paul had the true gift of 1 Corinthians 12:10 here; but it may never be supposed that he engaged in the non-sensical blabberings affected by the Corinthian tongue speakers.

The nine miraculous gifts mentioned here are: (1) wisdom; (2) knowledge; (3) faith; (4) healings; (5) miracles; (6) prophecy; (7) discernments of spirits; (8) tongues; and (9) interpretation of tongues.

Is the true gift of speaking in tongues on earth today? The answer has to be negative. What is admittedly true of all other gifts in this list may not be denied as true of the eighth and ninth also. A more extensive examination of this entire question is found in 1 Corinthians 14.

Wonderful as was the true gift of tongues, it cannot fail to be significant that it appears last in Paul's list, both here and in 1 Corinthians 12:30. Why? Perhaps it was the fact of its being so easily counterfeited. In those days, as now, anybody could do it, not the real thing, of course, but the counterfeit. This is not intended as a denial of the sincerity of some who practice this; but the sincerity of its advocates has never been a reason sole for accepting any proposition, religious or otherwise.


The great Pauline teaching that the church comprises the spiritual body of Christ is among the most important teachings revealed to man. God's device of accounting people righteous is that of forming them into a corporate unity, of which Christ is head, all the saved being members of it, the body itself being identified as "Christ," and therefore partaking of the perfect righteousness of the Son of God himself. God saves people, not by injecting righteousness into them (on the grounds of their faith and/or obedience), but by transferring them "into Christ," identifying them "as Christ," and making them, in fact, to be Christ. By this heavenly device, man becomes truly righteous and thus saved, not as John Doe, but as Christ. Faith and obedience of the gospel are the conditions antecedent to God's transfer of sinners into Christ, baptism being the action through which God effects the actual entry into Christ; but neither the faith of the sinner nor any act of obedience is the ultimate ground of his redemption, that all-important ground being the perfect faith, obedience and righteousness of the Christ himself. For full discussion of this, see my Commentary on Romans, pp. 118-126. Any man failing to fulfill the prior conditions of being "in Christ" is not a part of the body in view here, as evidenced in the next verse.

In one Spirit were we all baptized ... Throughout the New Testament, Christian baptism is revealed to be one of the two essential elements of the new birth, without which no man may see the kingdom of God. These are: obedience to the ordinance of baptism and the reception of the Holy Spirit. Jesus joined these two essential elements by his requirement that people be "born of the water and of the Spirit" (John 3:5ff). Peter joined them on Pentecost by the command that all people should "repent and be baptized ... and ... receive the Holy Spirit" (Acts 2:38ff). There is no doubt whatever that Paul's words here refer to the same twin essentials of the new birth, the same being a prior condition of participation in the body of Christ.

In one Spirit ... As Kelcy said, `This is actually `by one Spirit,' making the Holy Spirit the agent or administrator of baptism."19 In a similar way, Christ was named as the actual administrator of the rite of baptism, even though his disciples actually did the baptizing (John 4:1,2). The unity of the godhead makes it correct to refer any action ordained and commanded by God, to the Father, the Son, or the Holy Spirit; and when the action is obeyed, it is proper to say that any one of them did it. This truth does not exclude the reception of the indwelling Spirit in Christian hearts, as Paul dogmatically emphasized that in the very next clause, "made to drink of one Spirit."

We were all baptized ... and were all made to drink of one Spirit ... As Metz correctly noted, "the word `baptized' relates to the actual act of baptism."20 The mention of the Spirit as the administrator of baptism in this verse provoked Hodge to declare that the baptism in view, therefore, is "the baptism of the Holy Ghost!"21 If that is true, it would make Paul here declare that all of the Corinthians were baptized in the Holy Ghost, or had received the Holy Spirit baptism! Who could believe such a thing? It is true of course that all of them had themselves baptized, and in consequence had all received the gift ordinary of the Holy Spirit, common to all Christians; but to suppose that those carnal Corinthians had "all" participated in the baptism of the Holy Spirit is impossible. Of course, the design of many scholars is to get water baptism out of this text altogether; but that is also impossible.

All made to drink of one Spirit ... This refers to the reception of the ordinary gift of the indwelling Spirit by the Corinthians in consequence of primary obedience to the gospel. "There is no evidence that all the disciples at Corinth, or any of them, had been baptized in the Holy Spirit."

 

[Ouch]

Acts 15:8–9. Peter says God "gave gentiles the Holy Spirit just as He did to us at Pentecost "purifying" their hearts by FAITH."

That's Peter explanation of what happened at Cornelius house. Purification was by faith, not by water, not by tongues, not by ritual. God made "no distinction" & purified them the same way He purified the apostles — by faith.

Eph 1:
13 In Him, you also, when you heard the word of truth, the good news of your salvation, and [as a result] believed in Him, were stamped with the seal of the promised Holy Spirit [the One promised by Christ] as owned and protected [by God].

14 The Spirit is the guarantee [the first installment, the pledge, a foretaste] of our inheritance until the redemption of God’s own [purchased] possession [His believers], to the praise of His glory.

Rom 5:1–2, access to grace by faith.

1 Cor 12:13 — Holy Spirit baptism places us into the Body

1 Cor 12:30. not all speak with tongues

Heb 9:22, remission is by blood, not water
You asked for proof.
Peter gave it.

If your doctrine requires tongues or water to purify, you’re contradicting Peter, Paul, & the entire Jerusalem Council.

Two things your have to prove to be true.

"Not as a purification ritual or a means of remission, but as a discipleship marker & a public identification with His death & resurrection"

The real, effective baptism that PURIFIES & unites us to Christ is performed by the risen High Priest through the Holy Spirit baptism (1 Cor 12:13).

I DON'T SEE THE PROFF!!!

Hears the problem what leads you to your lies, You talk like it's true but you can't back it up.

Your saying water baptism is a public identification and the real baptism of the Holy Ghost is the only baptism needed.

Where is that PROFF???

BUT YOU HAVE NEITHER.

Your fist statement.

That's Peter explanation of what happened at Cornelius house. Purification was by faith, not by water, not by tongues, not by ritual. God made "no distinction" & purified them the same way He purified the apostles — by faith.

AND IT'S A LIE, THEY SPOKE IN TONGUES, THEY WERE BAPTIZED!!

NOW ANOTHER LIE, THE SAME WAY HE PURIFIED THE APOSTLES???? WHERE DID THAT COME FROM???

Problem with lies, is they just pile up.