So you think sometimes the Lord says things that are less true than other things He says???
That's what satan convinced Adam and Eve of is the false belief that you cannot always believe the Lord is telling the Truth
The Ten Commandments are the Covenant, did you know?
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So you think sometimes the Lord says things that are less true than other things He says???
That's what satan convinced Adam and Eve of is the false belief that you cannot always believe the Lord is telling the Truth
Jesus said love God and love your neighbor. That's it. Why is that so hard for you? You prefer a set of rules that you think you keep perfectly, but you don't. No one can.
So that's it?
News Flash, the Lord said some other stuff too such as walking after the flesh causes one to not be accepted in to His Kingdom.
Ignore that at your own peril
Galatians 5:19-21
Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
He also said this:
Romans 8:13
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
(NOT in our own strength - see Philippians 4:13)
Actually, Jesus said 'I AM THE WAY, THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE'
Have you come across that in your effortd to ignore any scripture (quite alot apparently) that does not agree with your offerings?
So if you are a believer, in Jesus, you will know the way to God, the truth, which sets you free, and you will have new life in Him.
I'm not buying your presumptions.
Colossians 2:14 - Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross.
Ephesians 2:15 - having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace.
Colossians 2:14 and Ephesians 2:15 refer to the requirements found in the Mosaic Law which were violated. The debt is the punishment due for the violator’s sins. Also see 2 Corinthians 3:6-9. None of us have perfectly obeyed the 10 commandments. We are all found guilty. (Romans 3:23)
Now although God's rest on the seventh day (Genesis 2:3) did foreshadow a future sabbath law, there is no Biblical record of the sabbath being kept before the children of Israel left the land of Egypt. *Nowhere in Scripture is there any hint that sabbath keeping was practiced from Adam to Moses.
Instead of personal digs lets just stick with Scripture.
I agree, we should love God and love our neighbor, but love according to Scripture is not just a feeling, nor is it arbitrary. God was very specific, if you love Me, keep My commandments. He said this right in His personal written and spoken Testimony Exo20:6 Its not that I prefer a set of rules, God gave them and because of a changed heart, I want to obey Him because I trust what He asks is for my own good. You obviously see things differently. I don't think we can reason together so I am ok agreeing to disagree. I guess it will; get sorted out soon enough.
There is a lot of context Paul gives us in this passage. There is so much more that I could have touched on but was trying to keep it as short as possible.
There are several different Sabbaths in the Bible that uses the same word, but has very different meanings.
There is the seventh day Sabbath- instituted at Creation Exo20:11 Gen2:1-3, came before sin, reaffirmed in the Ten Commandments Exo20:8-11, written by God personally Exo31:18, placed inside God’s ark Exo40:20 God called it “the holy day of the Lord” Isa58:13
There are the annual sabbath(s) feast days that are always tied to animal sacrifices, they don’t always fall on the seventh day can be on any day and came after the fall and were handwritten by Moses, placed besides the ark of God’s covenant came after sin.
There is the Day of Atonement Sabbath where fasting is required Lev16:31 Lev 23:27-32
There is the seventh year Sabbath that is every 7th year where the land should rest Lev25:1-7
The Jubilee Sabbath (50th) year Lev 25:8-17
So I think we are being quick to assume by seeing the word Sabbath that has different meanings and assuming it means the Holy Day of the Lord that comes with God's blessing and sanctification , without looking at the context that Paul carefully gave and we should let the Bible interpret itself.
Col 2:14 KJV Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to His cross.
Col 2:14 NASB having canceled the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.
Greek word for handwriting: χειρόγραφον (cheirographon)
Literally: “something written by hand
Ordinances
τοῖς δόγμασιν (tois dogmasin)
Meaning: “decrees,” “regulations,” “legal demands”
It is a legal document that condemns sinners why Paul used the word “against us” and “contrary to us”. The law does not condemn the righteous, it condemns the sinners.
Just from this context that Paul gave we can eliminate the Ten Commandments, but lets let Scripture interpret Scripture.
Who wrote the handwritten ordinances?
2 Chron 33:8 and I will not again remove the foot of Israel from the land which I have appointed for your fathers—only if they are careful to do all that I have commanded them, according to the whole law and the statutes and the ordinances by the hand of Moses.
What law is the law that was contrary and against?
Deut 31:24-26 So it was, when Moses had completed writing the words of this law in a book, when they were finished, 25 that Moses commanded the Levites, who bore the ark of the covenant of the Lord, saying: 26 “Take this Book of the Law, and put it beside the ark of the covenant of the Lord your God, that it may be there as a witness against you;
It appears from the text that this is not referring to the Sabbath in the Ten Commandments that was written by God Himself by His finger Exo31:18 placed inside the ark of the covenant, not besides like the annual sabbath(s) connected to animal sacrifices.
This is the law that was taken away at the Cross.
Col 2:16 let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
This is the exact language referring to the annual sabbath(s) that were handwritten by Moses, placed besides the ark that refer to annual feasts days, sacrifices and offerings that some were also called sabbath(s)
Eze 45:17 and it shall be the prince's part to give burnt offerings, and meat offerings, and drink offerings, in the feasts, and in the new moons, and in the sabbaths, in all solemnities of the house of Israel: he shall prepare the sin offering, and the meat offering, and the burnt offering, and the peace offerings, to make reconciliation for the house of Israel.
What did Jesus say He would come to put an end to? (compared to magnifying another law- by placing it in our hearts Isa42:21 Heb8:10)
Dan 9:27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week;
But in the middle of the week
He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.
Col 2:17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ
What are the shadows laws? Lets let the Scriptures define what they are
Heb 10:1 For the law, having a shadow of the good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with these same sacrifices, which they offer continually year by year, make those who approach perfect. 2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? For the worshipers, once []purified, would have had no more consciousness of sins. 3 But in those sacrifices there is a reminder of sins every year. 4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins.
5 Therefore, when He came into the world, He said:
“Sacrifice and offering You did not desire,
But a body You have prepared for Me.
6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin
You had no pleasure.
7 Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come—
In the volume of the book it is written of Me—
To do Your will, O God.’ ”
8 Previously saying, “Sacrifice and offering, burnt offerings, and offerings for sin You did not desire, nor had pleasure in them” (which are offered according to the law), 9 then He said, “Behold, I have come to do Your will, []O God.” He takes away the first that He may establish the second. 10 By that will we have been []sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all
This fits the context of this passage perfectly and makes the Bible harmonize because we see Sabbath-keeping (every Sabbath) 30+ years after the Cross just as Jesus Himself indicated Isa 56:6-7 Acts 13:42, Acts 13:44 Acts 15:21 Acts 18:4 and up to His Second Coming Mat24:20-30 and forever Isa66:22-23
There are several different Sabbaths in the Bible that uses the same word, but has very different meanings.
There is the seventh day Sabbath- instituted at Creation Exo20:11 Gen2:1-3, came before sin, reaffirmed in the Ten Commandments Exo20:8-11, written by God personally Exo31:18, placed inside God’s ark Exo40:20 God called it “the holy day of the Lord” Isa58:13
There are the annual sabbath(s) feast days that are always tied to animal sacrifices, they don’t always fall on the seventh day can be on any day and came after the fall and were handwritten by Moses, placed besides the ark of God’s covenant came after sin.
- 1st day of Unleavened Bread
- 7th day of Unleavened Bread
- Pentecost
- Trumpets
- Day of Atonement
- 1st day of Tabernacles
- 8th day of Tabernacles
There is the Day of Atonement Sabbath where fasting is required Lev16:31 Lev 23:27-32
There is the seventh year Sabbath that is every 7th year where the land should rest Lev25:1-7
The Jubilee Sabbath (50th) year Lev 25:8-17
So I think we are being quick to assume by seeing the word Sabbath that has different meanings and assuming it means the Holy Day of the Lord that comes with God's blessing and sanctification , without looking at the context that Paul carefully gave and we should let the Bible interpret itself.
Col 2:14 KJV Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to His cross.
Col 2:14 NASB having canceled the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.
Greek word for handwriting: χειρόγραφον (cheirographon)
Literally: “something written by hand
Ordinances
τοῖς δόγμασιν (tois dogmasin)
Meaning: “decrees,” “regulations,” “legal demands”
It is a legal document that condemns sinners why Paul used the word “against us” and “contrary to us”. The law does not condemn the righteous, it condemns the sinners.
Just from this context that Paul gave we can eliminate the Ten Commandments, but lets let Scripture interpret Scripture.
Who wrote the handwritten ordinances?
2 Chron 33:8 and I will not again remove the foot of Israel from the land which I have appointed for your fathers—only if they are careful to do all that I have commanded them, according to the whole law and the statutes and the ordinances by the hand of Moses.
What law is the law that was contrary and against?
Deut 31:24-26 So it was, when Moses had completed writing the words of this law in a book, when they were finished, 25 that Moses commanded the Levites, who bore the ark of the covenant of the Lord, saying: 26 “Take this Book of the Law, and put it beside the ark of the covenant of the Lord your God, that it may be there as a witness against you;
It appears from the text that this is not referring to the Sabbath in the Ten Commandments that was written by God Himself by His finger Exo31:18 placed inside the ark of the covenant, not besides like the annual sabbath(s) connected to animal sacrifices.
This is the law that was taken away at the Cross.
Col 2:16 let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
This is the exact language referring to the annual sabbath(s) that were handwritten by Moses, placed besides the ark that refer to annual feasts days, sacrifices and offerings that some were also called sabbath(s)
Eze 45:17 and it shall be the prince's part to give burnt offerings, and meat offerings, and drink offerings, in the feasts, and in the new moons, and in the sabbaths, in all solemnities of the house of Israel: he shall prepare the sin offering, and the meat offering, and the burnt offering, and the peace offerings, to make reconciliation for the house of Israel.
What did Jesus say He would come to put an end to? (compared to magnifying another law- by placing it in our hearts Isa42:21 Heb8:10)
Dan 9:27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week;
But in the middle of the week
He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.
Col 2:17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ
What are the shadows laws? Lets let the Scriptures define what they are
Heb 10:1 For the law, having a shadow of the good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with these same sacrifices, which they offer continually year by year, make those who approach perfect. 2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? For the worshipers, once []purified, would have had no more consciousness of sins. 3 But in those sacrifices there is a reminder of sins every year. 4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins.
5 Therefore, when He came into the world, He said:
“Sacrifice and offering You did not desire,
But a body You have prepared for Me.
6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin
You had no pleasure.
7 Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come—
In the volume of the book it is written of Me—
To do Your will, O God.’ ”
8 Previously saying, “Sacrifice and offering, burnt offerings, and offerings for sin You did not desire, nor had pleasure in them” (which are offered according to the law), 9 then He said, “Behold, I have come to do Your will, []O God.” He takes away the first that He may establish the second. 10 By that will we have been []sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all
This fits the context of this passage perfectly and makes the Bible harmonize because we see Sabbath-keeping (every Sabbath) 30+ years after the Cross just as Jesus Himself indicated Isa 56:6-7 Acts 13:42, Acts 13:44 Acts 15:21 Acts 18:4 and up to His Second Coming Mat24:20-30 and forever Isa66:22-23
There is only one truth and that truth was the revelation of Jesus Christ.
I never said I don't need the scripture.
I said that the scripture is not necessary for salvation.
Never limit the power of the Holy Spirit.
Here is a verse you can ponder.
Romans 10:13
For “Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
Is that a true statement?
John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Notice the capital 'W' in the word above and never lowercase.
You refer to the scripture as the 'Word' which confuses people.
Because the Word is God and was born as Jesus.
Good Bible translations use the lowercase for the 'word' when it refers to the scripture.
Try using NT or scripture.
You might need a bit more flesh on those bones.
What does believing and acting on God's promises mean?
We are discussing how we are saved.
I not only believe --- I follow Jesus Christ, I obey my Master, I walk that ONE Perfect Way. Christ said follow ME and I do. I keep the days He kept and the laws He kept.
He has paid my penalty of death for my sins I am now free from that penalty, no longer "Under" the penalty of death. I am on that narrow path into the Kingdom/government of God that is coming to this earth. I left this evil world behind and want no part in it. I am still in this world but not of it or the 40,000 flavors and their confusing doctrines of men .
[/QUOTE]
I don't think AI is right about everything but they agree with me in the following statement....
..."Ceremonial Law: Texts like Ephesians 2:15 speak of the "law of commandments contained in ordinances" being "blotted out" or "nailed to the cross," referring to the ceremonial system, not the 10 Commandments.
10 Commandments Endure: The moral law, summarized by the 10 Commandments, is seen as eternal and written on the hearts of believers in the New Covenant. "....
Ai said this not me... and I agree.
We know the 10 commandments are not part of the law contained in ordinances in Col 2:14 so that makes it clear that the sabbath referred to in verse 16 is not referring to the 10 commandments.
Simple logic.
Col 2:17 KJV Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
The things which are a shadow were set up after Christ needed to come.
Lambs were not killed before sin was present.
The 7th day Sabbath rest was set up and made holy before sin had entered. It was not a shadow of things to come.
Simple logic.
Col 2:17 KJV Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
The things which are a shadow were set up after Christ needed to come.
Lambs were not killed before sin was present.
The 7th day Sabbath rest was set up and made holy before sin had entered. It was not a shadow of things to come.
Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
It can't be the 10 commandments because you even say that many of them are to be kept today. If they were nailed to the cross they are dead. Did the get resurrected with Jesus or not?
The law was given as 10 commandments not 9 not 2, but people like to say they were nailed to the cross then resurrect the ones that they agree with.
Not Murdering is still a moral law..
But as soon as you talk about the sabbath.... everything changes and the arguments come to justify not keeping this law.
For the same reason that people do not lie or kill or take the Lord's name in vain, I keep the sabbath.. because it is the loving thing to do. But I'm accused of being legalistic. If you don't murder are you being legalistic?
Jesus, God in the flesh said that the law would not change ...
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
That is clear enough for me...
Jesus said the sabbath was made for man
Mar 2:27-28
27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath: 28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.
Only Israel need to follow the sabbath is not true according to what Jesus said.
Man = G444
Transliteration: anthrōpos
Thayer Definition:
a human being, whether male or female
generically, to include all human individuals.
The sabbath was made for all humans..
All in the past, present and future. All races and skin colors, male and female, young and old. ALL..
Jesus said it not me.. why would he say it if He knew it was about to be nailed to the cross..
Simple logic..