The Ten Commandments are the Covenant, did you know?

[memberofthebride]

Perhaps, but you avoided the question.

Exodus 23:17.

No, I answered the question, when the administration changed from the levite priesthood to Jesus Christ our High priest, the Temple also changed, That is the point Paul was making, you did not understand

Christ and our Father now dwelling In those the Father calls and then chooses and gives to Christ, They now dwell in me, a physical temple in no longer needed --- until Christ Returns and then Christ will build the Third Temple in which He and His Bride dwell.

Ezekiel foretells of this beginning in chapter 43, I believe

 

[Dino246]

No, I answered the question, when the administration changed from the levite priesthood to Jesus Christ our High priest, the Temple also changed, That is the point Paul was making, you did not understand

I understand perfectly well. I also understand what Hebrews tells us, what you have carefully avoided:

7:12 For when the priesthood is changed, the law must be changed also.

 

[pinebeach]

Jesus shows that moral law existed from the beginning, not starting at Sinai. When He answered the Pharisees about marriage, He did not introduce a new rule.

Does Jesus actually show that a moral law has always existed since creation? Is God the god of morality, or, is He simply HOLY which surpasses all laws for all time and forever? Annnnd.....who divided the actual law given at Mt Sinai into parts, such as the 'moral law'?

Marriage is a covenant. Not a moral dictatorship with either side keeping score and waving a copy of the commandments. Jesus is not a model for morality and the commandments were not given to create a model citizenry. They were given to UNDERSCORE sin and hold people accountable. They saved exactly NO ONE WHATSOEVER, the same number of people saved by them today.

As anyone with a Bible knows, there are two testaments contained therein. The first testament, or actually COVENANT is about taking care of your own righteousness. By the way, no one was ever too good at that, so a sacrificial system, implemented by God, was instituted to 'cover' the peoples' sins. All that shed animal blood did not actually forgive the sins; the sins were only temporairly put aside by God.

The second testament, or second COVENANT, is implemented through Jesus on the cross and sin is now actually forgiven, not just 'suspended' through faith in Him. This is called justification through faith and it is the gospel at its very core. We do not perform righteousness or earn righteousness by any means. The righteousness we now have, by the grace of God, is through faith in His Son who, through His death and resurrection, resolved the conflict with sin and a relationship with God. When we accept Jesus, our spirits are made alive and we can now approach God without fear of death or condemnation.

Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. Romans 5:1

So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. Gal. 3:24

For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, Eph. 2:8

he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit, Titus 3:5

Justification is a completed work of God, through Christ, and not to be confused with santification which is on ongoing process in the life of the believer.

And here is the most contested TRUTH in this and a few other threads by the same author. (y'all know who I'm talking about )

For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law. Romans 3:28

To put that into context, here are the verses prior to that one:

19 Now we know that whatever the law says it speaks to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be stopped, and the whole world may be held accountable to God. 20 For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin.

21 But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it— 22 the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins. 26 It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

27 Then what becomes of our boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? By a law of works? No, but by the law of faith. 28 For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law. 29 Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, 30 since God is one—who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith. 31 Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law.

The law is upheld through Christ on our behalf. It is not hard to understand unless a person want to fight it and declare Paul close to an apostate who, while entertaining, holds no authority.

 

[BillyBob]

If you're not progressively becoming more obedient to God, more resistant to sin and temptation, more loving to God that He becomes first ahead of anything else in your life as it did in Peter's life, you need to ask God to help you submit to Him. Jesus can't just be your Savior, He must be your Lord too.

I do not believe that any of my posts proclaimed that I am not improving, only that I am not perfect, nor will I ever reach perfection.
You just like to argue and accuse people for no good reason whatsoever!

 

[memberofthebride]

I understand perfectly well. I also understand what Hebrews tells us, what you have carefully avoided:

7:12 For when the priesthood is changed, the law must be changed also.

yes the sacrificial law, Christ completed that ONE sacrifice the "added" sacrificial law was put in place to lead us To, that part of the law was completed, fulfilled.

the Priesthood is included in the Torah, Changing the Priesthood does not change the Torah only that part of the Torah.

 

[memberofthebride]

yes the sacrificial law, Christ completed that ONE sacrifice the "added" sacrificial law was put in place to lead us To, that part of the law was completed, fulfilled.

the Priesthood is included in the Torah, Changing the Priesthood does not change the Torah only that part of the Torah.

Dino I fully understand there are no scriptures, no logic, nothing I can say or do that will change anyone mind, that is only possible by our Father.

 

[mailmandan]

Then your emphasis shouldn't be about sin and how we can't help committing it. That was what you original post was about.

As people who are supposedly belonging to God, if He did give us the Holy Spirit, we get to know His power to cause us to obey Him and resist sin. This also causes us to have a victorious view over sin because we no longer fixate on our inability to overcome sin in our own efforts, but God being powerful to help us obey and resist sin and temptation.

This is why I'm genuinely surprised and appalled that people who say they are saved, some for many years, are still emphasizing sin as if God doesn't have the power to help them overcome it. Jesus didn't die just to cover and forgive our sins, he died so that he can enter our lives and change us from within.

If a Christian hasn't learned to overcome sin and saying we can't, they're not letting God be their Lord. Jesus MUST be Lord, not just Savior in order to receive salvation.

1 John 1:8 - If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.

1 John 2:1 - My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.

1 John 3:9 - No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Christians neither practice sin nor are sinless and perfect 100% of the time.

 

[Standard]

I do not believe that any of my posts proclaimed that I am not improving, only that I am not perfect, nor will I ever reach perfection.
You just like to argue and accuse people for no good reason whatsoever!

Amen... A fine summary, supoorted by scripture. We're saved by Jesus, he's the sacrifice that replaced the sacrifices of the old testament and, while we accept Him, we're fully forgiven and justified in the eyes of God. He wants us to follow the commandments, that's clear as they are in our hearts and Jesus didn't abolush the lae, but rather fulfilled it, Matthew 5:17. Under the law we were dead through our sins, Romans 6:23, but Jesus mediates for us and has given us the key to eternal life, despite our failings.

 

[BillyBob]

Amen... A fine summary, supoorted by scripture. We're saved by Jesus, he's the sacrifice that replaced the sacrifices of the old testament and, while we accept Him, we're fully forgiven and justified in the eyes of God. He wants us to follow the commandments, that's clear as they are in our hearts and Jesus didn't abolush the lae, but rather fulfilled it, Matthew 5:17. Under the law we were dead through our sins, Romans 6:23, but Jesus mediates for us and has given us the key to eternal life, despite our failings.

Yes, every time we fail He mediates for us because He suffered in our place. Good post!

 

[pinebeach]

It would be rare for me to make a statement that can not be backed up with clear scriptures

Really? Than kindly show us where we learn we need to obey the law and keep all the things the Israelites had to do...but quote the New Testament, because that is where we find the actual Covenant God has enacted for believers in Christ.

I find this scripture pretty compelling (but there is a whole testament full of compelling scripture)

Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath.
Colossians 2:16

And here it is in CONTEXT.

6Therefore, just as you have received Christ Jesus as Lord, continue to walk in Him, 7rooted and built up in Him, established in the faith as you were taught, and overflowing with thankfulness.

8See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, which are based on human tradition and the spiritual forces of the world rather than on Christ. 9For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity dwells in bodily form. 10And you have been made complete in Christ, who is the head over every ruler and authority.

11In Him you were also circumcised, in the putting off of your sinful nature, with the circumcision performed by Christb and not by human hands. 12And having been buried with Him in baptism, you were raised with Him through your faith in the power of God, who raised Him from the dead.

13When you were dead in your trespasses and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our trespasses, 14having canceled the debt ascribed to us in the decrees that stood against us. He took it away, nailing it to the cross! 15And having disarmed the powers and authorities, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.

16Therefore let no one judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a feast, a New Moon, or a Sabbath. 17These are a shadow of the things to come, but the body that casts it belongs to Christ. 18Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you with speculation about what he has seen. Such a person is puffed up without basis by his unspiritual mind. 19He has lost connection to the head, from whom the whole body, supported and knit together by its joints and ligaments, grows as God causes it to grow.

 

[pinebeach]

Romans 8:16
The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, not that we are sinless.

Thing is, we will never find any scripture, in any translation, that teaches sinless perfectionsim, which is what that member is actually declaring. Her arguement is ridiculous as she is twisting your words and her claim to sinlessness, is that since the Holy Spirit dwells in believers, we no longer have any excuse to sin.

Really, it is faulty reasoning and I suspect this member just wants to be right because of her support for the op.

John says if we say we have no sin, we are in deception and there is not truth in that person.

If we should say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. I John 1:18

 

[pinebeach]

You do read the Bible, right? Don't you recall that God gives His Holy Spirit to enable and cause us to obey Him and not to sin against Him? God already KNOWS we can't obey Him or stop sinning . That's why He gives us His holy Spirit.

Being given the Holy Spirit is a game changer because He not only gives His people the ability to obey and conquer sin, but also changes their priorities. They become God- centered with what God wants first. That's why their emphasis is not themselves and sin, but what God wants and the amazing power God has to help His children live up to them.

The Holy Spirit is not your control. He does not take over your body so that you will never sin again and I seem to remember a post of yours from some time back in which you clearly stated you were currently struggling with a certain sin and wanting to overcome it.

What about people with addictions who become believers? Is there any garantee that suddenly the addiction disappears? It might, but more often than not, is does not. What about people with mental problems that struggle? Or people who lie and stuggle with that?

Do you know what santification means? It seems you may not. First you state we grow in Christ and then you judge and condemn anyone who tries to put in a word sideways. Maybe you need more 'fertilizer' to help with that giant growth spurt of yours.

 

[pinebeach]

Did you read Peter's letters in the NT? He didn't stay the same as when he was young in Christ in the book of Matthew. He grew up and matured un Him - we're all to grow in Christ too.

So you falsely accusing me of considering myself better than Peter is just defllection. You should learn Peter's example in his letters instead, because he was far more obedient to the Lord by that time and less given to sin which truly shows the power of God over sin in the life of the person who really belongs to Him.

If you're not progressively becoming more obedient to God, more resistant to sin and temptation, more loving to God that He becomes first ahead of anything else in your life as it did in Peter's life, you need to ask God to help you submit to Him. Jesus can't just be your Savior, He must be your Lord too.

Very harsh words from someone who does not seem to understand either justification OR santification. You have no clue whether someone is growing, stumbling, stalling or confused because of your unsanctified words.

You know, the Holy Spirit will also grow fruit in us as we submit to Him. Condemnation of everyone who does not quite fit your narrative is not one of them.

BTW, I am not interested in your sarcasim and you should be careful of that. It does nothing to aid your beliefs.

 

[pinebeach]

yes the sacrificial law, Christ completed that ONE sacrifice the "added" sacrificial law was put in place to lead us To, that part of the law was completed, fulfilled.

the Priesthood is included in the Torah, Changing the Priesthood does not change the Torah only that part of the Torah.

Yeah this is close to shunning Christ. You have much bigger problems with scripture than I thought you did.

Ignorance is not bliss after all.

 

[BillyBob]

If a Christian hasn't learned to overcome sin and saying we can't, they're not letting God be their Lord. Jesus MUST be Lord, not just Savior in order to receive salvation.

There are no Christians who purposely live in sin and there are no Christians who have totally overcome sin to the point of a sinless life.
Have you ever considered that even though we grow in grace, that God allows us to fail occasionally 1) to remind us of our constant need and 2) to glorify Himself as a Savior that is both just and forgiving?

 

[pinebeach]

The problem with deception, is that the person does not realize they are deceived. We have all been deceived from time to time, but when scripture becomes someone's personal playground, or they think God is giving them instructions that differ from what the Bible actually has inside of it, that is not God. It is a deceiving spirit and they are really hanging loose in this thread.

And I might as well bring this up also. Limited capacity for comprehension seems to also be playing a part. Just my observations of course. Some deviations from scripture in this thread, are actually alarming and probably make the devil snicker.

 

[pinebeach]

If a Christian hasn't learned to overcome sin and saying we can't, they're not letting God be their Lord. Jesus MUST be Lord, not just Savior in order to receive salvation.

Baloney

She is giving santification a bad name. Emphasis on sin sin sin just leads to more sin. People who are sin focused can find it anywhere but usually not in themselves

 

[pinebeach]

Why was the law given?

The Mosaic Law was given specifically to the nation of Israel (Exodus 19; Leviticus 26:46; Romans 9:4). It was made up of three parts: the Ten Commandments, the ordinances, and the worship system, which included the priesthood, the tabernacle, the offerings, and the festivals (Exodus 20—40; Leviticus 1—7; 23). The purpose of the Mosaic Law was to accomplish the following:

(1) Reveal the holy character of the eternal God to the nation of Israel (Leviticus 19:2; 20:7–8).

(2) Set apart the nation of Israel as distinct from all the other nations (Exodus 19:5).

(3) Reveal the sinfulness of man (cf. Galatians 3:19). Although the Law was good and holy (Romans 7:12), it did not provide salvation for the nation of Israel. “No one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin” (Romans 3:20; cf. Acts 13:38–39).

(4) Provide forgiveness through the sacrifice/offerings (Leviticus 1—7) for the people who had faith in the Lord in the nation of Israel.

(5) Provide a way of worship for the community of faith through the yearly feasts (Leviticus 23).

(6) Provide God’s direction for the physical and spiritual health of the nation (Exodus 21—23; Deuteronomy 6:4–19; Psalm 119:97–104).

(7) Reveal to humanity that no one can keep the Law but everyone falls short of God’s standard of holiness. That realization causes us to rely on God’s mercy and grace. When Christ came, He fulfilled the Law and with His death paid the penalty for our breaking it (Galatians 3:24; Romans 10:4). By faith in Him, the believer has the very righteousness of Christ imputed to him.

The purpose of the Mosaic Law raises these questions: “Are you trusting in yourself to keep all the Ten Commandments all the time (which you can’t do)?” OR “Have you made the choice to accept Jesus as your Savior, realizing that He has fulfilled all the commandments all the time for you, even paying your penalty for breaking them?” The choice is yours.

 

[Dino246]

yes the sacrificial law, Christ completed that ONE sacrifice the "added" sacrificial law was put in place to lead us To, that part of the law was completed, fulfilled.

the Priesthood is included in the Torah, Changing the Priesthood does not change the Torah only that part of the Torah.

Where in the text does it specify only the sacrificial law? Oh... it doesn't.

The Law is a unit: break one ordinance, you have broken the entire Law. That is explained in Galatians 3:10 and James 2:10. You don't get to divide the Law into parts that apply and parts that don't where Scripture doesn't... and it doesn't anywhere.

The Law is fulfilled--completed--in Christ. That's why Jesus yelled "Tetelestai" on the cross; "It is finished." That's what every Judaizer doesn't understand.

 

[HigherGospel]

No matter what you say HG you were dead in your sin before Jesus forgave you.

I never said I wasn't

You are in a war, a war between your flesh and the Spirit.

No, actually I have died to self and have put on Christ as God's Word teaches.

I have made a quality decision to never turn away from the Lord.

A quality decision is one about which their is no debate and from which there is no retreat.

So, the war is over for me. I've made my decision.

But you do you and toggle between walking after the flesh (sin) and living for the Lord if you'd like

Romans 7 man says he is sold under sin so he is not a born again believer

The answer to Romans 7 is Romans 8 so keep reading.

We unfortunately all sin anyway no matter what we believe.

Your name must be legion

I am unable to boast in any way but only in Jesus.

IF you were abiding In Christ you'd have victory over sin.

You claim you are a sinner so you are void of understanding currently.

Is that calling on the name of Jesus the reason we are saved?

You claim to still be a sinner so you have a lot to learn.

Real Christians identify and walk in righteousness.

Tares identify and walk in sin claiming they are still sinners.

I guess that having a conversation with someone who believes that they are the only person who is not ignorant just isn't working for me.
So have a great day!

Yeah, those who are not willing to actually believe and live by what God's Word had better move on