Israel.

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ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
It's still Israel; it hasn't been replaced. Paul clearly said that unbelieving Jews were not Israel, so its error on your part to include them.
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I was born a Jew.
Jewish until I reached salvation in Christ.
You are a Gentile?
I am assuming you are.

"Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: ​
old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. ! ​
​
2 Corinthians 5:17​

Both Jew and Gentile have now have become a new creation in Christ.

The Greek word translated as 'new' does not mean God has made you to become 'like new.'

It actually means?

We have been made to be a new creation, unlike anything else before in creation!


Not like a Jew. Not like a Gentile.

That means?
We are not taking over for the Jews what they stopped doing.
We are into something totally new and different.
 
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ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
That means unbelieving Jews are excluded from the new thing, which is the holy nation ruled by God, ie, spiritual Israel.
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All OT believers are also excluded.
The Church is a new spiritual species that the Jews can not emulate.
The Jews before the Church age could not be transformed into the image of Christ!

They were under the Law - to obey.
They Church eats the Word for what they transform into and becomes a new person without Law.
 
ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
The Judaism of Christ's time was not the Judaism of today, the difference being the former was based on the Law of Moses and the prophets and the latter is based on the Talmud. They are as far apart as the east is from the west and as different as light is from darkness. The only Judaism today, that I know of, that is an exception to this rule is that of the Karaites, who only follow Moses and reject the authority of the rabbis.

Modern Judaism is a creation of the pharisees, so what you are attempting to do is establish common ground between pharisaism and Christianity, which there is none.
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Judaism of today could not dare try to be like Judaism of the days of the Levitical priesthood with the Temple.
Today, what we find, is a form of very stabilized damage control.
 
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[QUOTE What do you think is the abomination of desolation?[/QUOTE]

If you don't mind, I am interested to take up this question.
I have been looking up the use of the word "abomination" in the Bible, and have consistently found it referring to sin, not to a person.
The "abomination of desolation" is first mentioned in Daniel 9:27, concluding the famous seventy weeks prophesy (Daniel 9:24-27)

Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

I have looked online at the various timelines given in attempt to establish the events described in this verse, and have found a number of them that attribute the verse to Antichrist.
In order to do this they must insert an undefined gap of time between the 69th and the 70th week of the prophesy.

I find this unacceptable because Gabriel has given the prophesy to Daniel in an uninterrupted narrative, and that would defeat the purpose of giving time predictions in the first place.

The uninterrupted timeline would bring us to a 70th week from AD27 to 34.
Jesus was crucified in this time, ie AFTER 69 weeks (from Dan 9:26), and the aims of v. 26 (ie. to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.) are fulfilled.

So that means that v.27 is speaking about Jesus, not Antichrist.
It is Jesus that confirms the covenant and causes the sacrifice to cease, because He is the final sacrifice.
The temple and the sacrifice will be made desolate for the overspreading of abominations (sins), the most abominable of all being the act of killing Christ.

Matthew 23:38
Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
 
God will take away the sins of Israel!

Rom 11:26-27

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

This Promise to Gods chosen People Israel has been fulfilled by the Mediator of the New Covenant, and the Head of the Body His Church. When Jesus came to earth and died for the sins of His People, both jew and gentile chosen people in Christ, He took away their sins

1 Jn 3:5

And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

Jesus' death is the fulfillment of Rom 11:27 in taking away the sins of Israel. Are we to look again for some future time when God shall take away the sins of Israel? It wasn't enough when Christ came and took away sins this first time? Does Christ need to die again to take away the sins of ethnic israel only ? What covenant would that be ? Because 1 Jn 3:5 is according to the New Covenant, confirmed by Christs death Matt 26:28

28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Now didnt His Blood do what the OT sacrifices under the couldn't do which was take away sin ? Heb 10:4,11

For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:

The Israel that the New Covenant has taken away their sins through Christ, is a Israel made up of all ethnic groups throughout the world Jn 1:29

The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

The world here in Jn 1:29 is the Israel in Rom 11:27

27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. 14
 
ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
That's what the entirety of Roman 9-11 does. It makes a distinction between Israel of faith (spiritual Israel) and Israel of unbelief (natural Israel). Spiritual Israel is the remnant out of natural Israel.

I guess it's time to re-issue the Romans 9-11 Challenge that no one has taken up yet

Romans 9-11 Challenge
Show one verse in Romans chapters 9-11, excluding Romans 11:26, that states anything other than a remnant is saved.
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Did I fail to offer Romans 11:5, within the context of the subheading The Remnant of Israel, and its explicit qualification of the referent "at the present time" by use of the perfect indicative active of the verb "is" which is used to convey actions that have been completed in the past with relevance to the present. Just as god had reserved 700 besides Elijah, so also a remnant has been chosen by grace, namely the Remnant of Israel in the immediate time of writing. Romans 11:26 verb tense is future indicative active with specific reference to the significance of Jacob as distinct from Israel.
 
Beekeeper said:
I find this unacceptable because Gabriel has given the prophesy to Daniel in an uninterrupted narrative, and that would defeat the purpose of giving time predictions in the first place.
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The gap is totally untenable because God gave Israel the 70-week period as a sign of the messiah's appearance. That is how John and others knew the time was at hand and were looking for Christ; and why Jesus rebuked unbelievers because they didn't know the time.
 
Beekeeper said:
So that means that v.27 is speaking about Jesus, not Antichrist.
It is Jesus that confirms the covenant and causes the sacrifice to cease, because He is the final sacrifice.
The temple and the sacrifice will be made desolate for the overspreading of abominations (sins), the most abominable of all being the act of killing Christ.

Matthew 23:38
Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
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Amen!
So rare to find this correct understanding these days.

I feel like there has been a concerted effort by the dispensationalist to scrub this correct interpretation from print, but if one digs deep one can find the excellent material as to why this is the correct interpretation.
 
HeIsHere said:
Amen!
So rare to find this correct understanding these days.

I feel like there has been a concerted effort by the dispensationalist to scrub this correct interpretation from print, but if one digs deep one can find the excellent material as to why this is the correct interpretation.
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It's more obvious in the LXX version of Daniel 9:24-27
 
ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
Scripture witnesses of no such thing, and it fact says the opposite. The wall of partition between Jew and gentile was removed forever.
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IN CHRIST! It has been removed.

The Church is neither Jew nor Gentile - - For the Church age.
Not before the Church age.
And, not after the Church age will end.

The Millennium will not be the Church age which will follow after the church age.

There will once again be a strong distinction made between Jew and Gentile!

Read carefully please...


This is what the Lord Almighty says: “Many peoples and the inhabitants of many ​
cities will yet come, and the inhabitants of one city will go to another and say, ​
‘Let us go at once to entreat the Lord and seek the Lord Almighty. I myself am going.’ ​
And many peoples and powerful nations will come to Jerusalem to seek the Lord ​
Almighty and to entreat him.”​
​
This is what the Lord Almighty says: “In those days ten people from all languages ​
and nations will take firm hold of one Jew by the hem of his robe and say, ‘Let us ​
go with you, because we have heard that God is with you.’” Zechariah 8:20-23​
​

That time has yet to come.

And, most definitely!
That can not be the Church age!


This is what the Lord Almighty says: “In those days ten people from all languages ​
and nations will take firm hold of one Jew by the hem of his robe and say, ‘Let us ​
go with you, because we have heard that God is with you.’” ​


Let's think this through.
We're all learning...
 
Genez said:
This is what the Lord Almighty says: “Many peoples and the inhabitants of many cities will yet come, and the inhabitants of one city will go to another and say, ‘Let us go at once to entreat the Lord and seek the Lord Almighty. I myself am going.’ And many peoples and powerful nations will come to Jerusalem to seek the Lord Almighty and to entreat him.”This is what the Lord Almighty says: “In those days ten people from all languages and nations will take firm hold of one Jew by the hem of his robe and say, ‘Let us go with you, because we have heard that God is with you.’” Zechariah 8:20-23
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How many times do you have to be told the obvious before it sinks in? All of that is being fulfilled now, has been for the past nearly 2000 years, and will continue until the lord returns. Those days that Zechariah prophesied about are these days.

We have come to Jerusalem

But you have drawn near Mount Zion, and the city of the living GOD, heavenly Jerusalem, and to myriads of angels, and to a gathering, an assembly of the first-born ones having been enrolled in Heaven; and to GOD the Judge of all, and to spirits of just ones who have been perfected; and to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and to blood of sprinkling speaking better things than that of Abel. Hebrews 12:22-24​
​
But the Jerusalem you are fixated on God calls Sodom and Egypt

And their corpses will be upon the wide place of the great city which is spiritually called Sodom and Egypt, and where their lord was crucified. Revelation 11:8​

We sit at the feet of Jews who teach us the ways of God every time we open the bible to read their writings, thus fulfilling Zechariah 8:23.

​
 
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ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
How many times do you have to be told the obvious before it sinks in? All of that is being fulfilled now, has been for the past nearly 2000 years, and will continue until the lord returns. Those days that Zechariah prophesied about are these days.

We have come to Jerusalem

But you have drawn near Mount Zion, and the city of the living GOD, heavenly Jerusalem, and to myriads of angels, and to a gathering, an assembly of the first-born ones having been enrolled in Heaven; and to GOD the Judge of all, and to spirits of just ones who have been perfected; and to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and to blood of sprinkling speaking better things than that of Abel. Hebrews 12:22-24​
​
But the Jerusalem you are fixated on God calls Sodom and Egypt

And their corpses will be upon the wide place of the great city which is spiritually called Sodom and Egypt, and where their lord was crucified. Revelation 11:8​

We sit at the feet of Jews who teach us the ways of God every time we open the bible to read their writings, thus fulfilling Zechariah 8:23.

​
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The state of Israel today are like those who wanted to go back into Egypt during Exodus.
 
ThereRoseaLamb said:
So you wanna go back to Egypt, where it's warm and secure... sorry, if you know you know. ;)
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Wouldn't you think that the modern state of Israel would have to be a Godly nation right now if it was to fulfil the prophecy in Isaiah 66?
Why does it have to be godly later?because it has to exist first?Wouldn't that make it not born in a day because there has to be repentance first,and receiving of the Holy Spirit?

People who have the Holy Spirit have heaven come down unto them.I can't imagine the things going down in the state of Israel as heaven on earth.
 
Lifted_by_the_word said:
The state of Israel today are like those who wanted to go back into Egypt during Exodus.
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So you know all 8 million Jews? Do you not know that God called Israel to return to the land before they returned to Him? That happened after the end of the exile in Babylon. It happened in 1948. Many Jews are returning to God right now. They are not believers in Christ so they are not saved. But it is a step in the right direction.

It's a shame that you don't find out the truth about Israel and the people before making inaccurate and misleading statements.
 
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