@ThereRoseaLamb it is much nicer having these kinds of conversations with you without all of the friction and sparks. Thank you
Israel.
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Thank you! Sometimes too many posts get going at once and the next thing you don't even know who you're talking to. Nothing really gets discussed. One reason why I never liked shows like The View, I could never hear anyone or make sense of it.
Thank you for sharing this.
Jesus came during the time of Roman occupancy and was asked of future signs of restoration. As his reply to the question have you come now to restore was ment with....these things must pass.
Jesus also predicted the temple destruction which happened after his ascension. To be discussed later if one wants.
The key thing in these events imo is the abomination of desolation and what it is .
Knowing the beliefs of judisim helps to identify the abomination of desolation. Understanding the arrest and trial of Christ shows it.
Jesus said to the pharisees....I am come and you believe not but one will come that you believe.
During the trial many were divided in ...is this the Messiah....that came to no resolve. But when the question of are you God came to light a totally different story.
The jews will believe in the signs and wonders that anti-Christ is the messiah....but when he sits in the temple and declares himself as God ....again a different story. This imo is the abomination of desolation.
Remember the time frame is only the first half of the tribulation.
+8
The Messiah - Key beliefs in Judaism - GCSE Religious Studies ...
The Jewish Messiah, a human descendant of King David, will gather all Jews to Israel, rebuild the Third Temple in Jerusalem, and usher in a global era of perfect peace, knowledge of God, and universal harmony, ending war, suffering, and hatred, while restoring Torah observance and Jewish law without changing religious tenets. He will be a political and spiritual leader, not divine, who unites the world under God's teachings and ushers in the Messianic Age.
Key Actions of the Messiah:
Gather the Exiles: Bring all Jewish people from across the globe back to the Land of Israel.
Rebuild the Temple: Reconstruct the Holy Temple in Jerusalem.
Establish World Peace: End all wars, hatred, and conflict, creating universal peace and harmony.
Restore Jewish Law: Re-establish Jewish sovereignty, the Sanhedrin, and full observance of Torah.
Teach Universal Knowledge: Help all humanity recognize God and live by His commandments.
Characteristics of the Messianic Era:
Spiritual & Physical Redemption: A time of immense spiritual revelation and physical prosperity, with abundant food and healing.
End of Suffering: No more jealousy, oppression, or suffering.
Universal Recognition of God: All nations will acknowledge the one God.
Nature of the Messiah:
Human Leader: A mortal, anointed leader, not a divine being or part of God.
Descendant of David: A direct descendant of King David.
What the Messiah Doesn't Do:
Change Judaism: He will not alter the fundamental laws or teachings of the Torah; he will help people fulfill them.
No, Orthodox Judaism emphatically rejects the belief that God can become flesh or incarnate as a human, viewing God as indivisible, incorporeal, and transcendent, making the Christian concept of God becoming man (like Jesus) a fundamental theological difference, though Jewish texts do describe God appearing in various forms or through divine messengers. The core principle is that God is the source of all being, not a being in the human sense, and to limit God to physical form contradicts Jewish theology, emphasizing God's absolute unity (Echad) and transcendence.
Key Jewish Beliefs on God's Nature
Incorporeal & Indivisible: God is pure spirit, without physical form, gender, or parts, and cannot be divided or contained by the physical world.
Transcendent: God created space and time and exists beyond them, meaning God cannot be limited to a single physical body.
The Gentiles are not to replace Israel.
They have been grafted into the same vine to RECEIVE THE SAME LINE OF BLESSING AND BENEFITS...
Not the same thing as replacing Israel itself.
For Israel has been "put on hold" until the fullness of the Gentiles can come in.
Romans 11:25-27
I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters,
so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening
in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in, and in this
way all Israel will be saved. As it is written:
“The deliverer will come from Zion;
he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.
And this is my covenant with them
when I take away their sins.”
Right now, the Church consists of both Jews and Gentiles as the one new man. Not to replace Israel. But to become the Church separate from Israel.
And?
The Church now can share in the same kind of blessings that Israel once knew when being blessed for faithfulness to God's Word.
BUT!
God will restore Israel after the Church has been resurrected!
The New Israel will be manifested during the Millennium, with Christ in Jerusalem sitting on the Throne of David!
This is what the LORD Almighty says: “In those days ten people from all languages and nations will take firm hold of one Jew by the hem of his robe and say, ‘Let us go with you, because we have heard that God is with you.’” Zechariah 8:23
Warning to some of you Gentile believers!
For Romans 11:25 is shouting in your faces!
I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters,
so that you may not be conceited...
Take it to heart.
You know who you are!
Conceited "replacement theology" is the Devil's lie!
Other than that?
Grace and peace ..................
You're quoting from a UK gov't educational certification document. Why?
No one's saying the gentiles replace Israel except dispensationalists who use that as a strawman to argue against.
The fullness of the gentiles fills out what remains of God's plan for Israel. There is no pause. Once that is complete , then the lord will return will all of Israel.
Scripture witnesses of no such thing, and it fact says the opposite. The wall of partition between Jew and gentile was removed forever.
How do you reconcile Ephesians 2 with your statement?
11 Therefore remember that you, once Gentiles in the flesh—who are called Uncircumcision by what is called the Circumcision made in the flesh by hands— 12 that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.
14 For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, 15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace,
So, the One man, made of both Jew and Gentile, is created where? In Himself. So both Jew and Gentile are made one in Christ.
Are we sure?
Paul continues...
16 and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity.
Just so we get the message: the catalyst for this creation (one man made from both Jews and Gentiles) is the cross.
That. Already. Occurred.
17 And He came and preached peace to you who were afar off and to those who were near. 18 For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father.
So, now access to the Father is by the One Spirit of the Son in Him by way of the cross.
Let me ask a question so that you may grasp the gist of what I am saying?
When a Jew comes to Christ today, must he choose between the covenant that secures authority over a small strip of land in the Middle East or the other covenant, in Christ, that secures authority over all creation?
It's a foolish question based on foolish doctrine.
Most of the above post is my typed findings. If you are referring to the Jewish beliefs that's pretty accurate....why does it matter?
Well then?
Tell us, please?
1. Do you believe the Jews deserved Oct 7 because they stole the land?
2. Have you mentioned the synagogue of Satan ploy to pertain to all Jews?
3. Do you believe the Holocaust didn't happen?
Sorry, I didn't know that these questions were directed to me.
I would have thought you would know me better than that by now, and am surprised that you would ask them.
1. No. I don't think "the Jews" deserved Oct 7, if you are referring to the young people at the party.
If you are referring to the government I think it is not realistic to speak of deserving, because they had foreknowledge of the attack and wanted it. The people that were blown up by the Apache helicopters in those burned out cars did not deserve it, though I acknowledge that they blown up by their own army.
2. Silliest question of the lot.
Jesus is the king of the Jews, and the perfect example of a Jew and nothing to do with Satan.
3. Give me a truthful definition of the Holocaust, and whatever happened happened.
While we are busy being kind, try to put yourself in the shoes of one living in Gaza over the last 2 years.
If you are of military age you may well be deemed to be Hamas, and therefore a target.
Would you not pick up a weapon to defend yourself and your family?
When we judge what others ought to do it may send pleasurable endorphins to the brain,
but a change of circumstances would cause us to have different things to say.
These verses have all been presented a number of times throughout this thread, but have not received a single explanation from the other camp.
The bottom line is that they do not have a Biblical position.
What else can we conclude?
And now that is the missing link thank you. We have a very Jewish savior who demonstrated his obedience perfectly throughout his life.
Christianity was born out of judisim.
Have you ever considered it ironic that referring to the new testament you have 12 Jewish followers that followed the Jewish messiah and wrote down the sayings and events leading up to how to be a Christian? What a Christian is? Who is a Christian?
Jesus came to fulfill not replace judisim. Israel . He is the new man born from above.
The nation of todays Israel will be confronted with Christ himself in the future. Because all nations will turn against it. There will be no one to help...
All of Israel's past has been a battle of other gods and forsaking the one true God
The difference of anti christ is he claims to be God the one true god.
Isa 42:8 I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.
Isa 42:9 Behold, the former things are come to pass, and new things do I declare: before they spring forth I tell you of them.
Isa 46:13 I bring near my righteousness; it shall not be far off, and my salvation shall not tarry: and I will place salvation in Zion for Israel my glory.
In two sentences you just proved the first one to be a lie.
Are you sure you wanted to word it that way?
1) - No one's saying the gentiles replace Israel except dispensationalists who
use that as a strawman to argue against.
2) - The fullness of the gentiles fills out what remains of God's plan for Israel.
....... huh?
The Judaism of Christ's time was not the Judaism of today, the difference being the former was based on the Law of Moses and the prophets and the latter is based on the Talmud. They are as far apart as the east is from the west and as different as light is from darkness. The only Judaism today, that I know of, that is an exception to this rule is that of the Karaites, who only follow Moses and reject the authority of the rabbis.
Modern Judaism is a creation of the pharisees, so what you are attempting to do is establish common ground between pharisaism and Christianity, which there is none.
In two sentences you just proved the first one to be a lie.
Are you sure you wanted to word it that way?
1) - No one's saying the gentiles replace Israel except dispensationalists who
use that as a strawman to argue against.
2) - The fullness of the gentiles fills out what remains of God's plan for Israel.
It's still Israel; it hasn't been replaced. Paul clearly said that unbelieving Jews were not Israel, so its error on your part to include them.
No I don't find it ironic at all. It was prophesied by Zechariah that 10 men out of the nations would take hold of the skirt of a Jew to learn the ways of God. That is what Christians have done from the beginning by hearkening to the teachings of the apostles and NT writers.
If we're going on from here like I have with @ChristRoseFromTheDead no more of the insults. I'm answering once what I believe, not what you want to hear.
No, I don't believe the Jews deserved Oct 7. I do not believe they stole the land.
No, I don't believe it does, I believe that was talking about a specific group of people at that specific time.
I believe 6 million Jews + others were killed.
HeisHere came round with what sounded like blame on the Jews for Oct 7. So far she hasn't been clear or answered the questions, let's see if she will.
Ok, I'd disagree. I'd agree if you said in the fog of war people may have been killed. But to say Israel wanted to murder their own people, I don't believe that. Thanks to the Holocaust Jews are a minority in this world, they take the lives of their citizens very seriously. I've seen videos with first hand testimony that says Hamas burned out the cars.
We would agree.
If this question is for me I don't know what you're looking for. The Holocaust seems pretty straight forward and well known to most. 6million Jews murdered, not sure what the total of the non - Jews stands at officially.
I'm for the true freedom of the people of Gaza from Hamas. The same as I am for the Iranian people who are trying once again to gain their freedom and the people of Afghanistan who lost their freedom when Biden pulled out too soon, no pun intended. I believe freedom is a God given right, available to all. But there's a whole lot of responsibility that comes with that freedom. One is to live in peace with your neighbors. There's a reason Arab neighbors haven't run to help and support the people of Gaza. We will have to see what happens from here.
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