Understanding limited atonement

[Jordon]

In this sermon we get a bit of mixed bag,

Key points

The speaker takes great in not trying upset anyone,

First point raised is people who believe in the points of tulip do not believe in this one, and this point is seen as the most controversial one, but he makes a point in saying the gospel should be universally preached and is open to all.

He addresses the reason why limited atonement is controversial, and points out with great care what limited atonement doesn't mean. to take care into not upset anyone.

Atonement is not limited in one sense and is offered to all but is only given to those who repent.

Limited atonement is sufficient for all but not efficient for all, because people will not believe. But this point in itself is not the key takeaway of why limited atonement is preached

God sent his son to ensure the salvation of his people who will be saved, which means those who will trust in his will from other sermons he has preached. Which means anybody.

The speaker doesn't like to use the term limited atonement as it's so misleading he says, but prefers to call it definite redemption or definite atonement. Meaning God designed atonement with a definite view to save the elect, elect meaning those who will be saved.


Here's the sermon

 

[Aussie52]

Why do you feel the need to push your Calvinism on others?

 

[Jordon]

Why do you feel the need to push your Calvinism on others?

because I love the points of what you call Calvinism, Is the reason


Sorry but a bit a research would tell, that A professor in theology teaching theology for degrees, has to discuss former theologians, that's the first thing.

Second thing is my view is the gospel is freely open to all to be preached to all and is the same view as rc sproul

And the third point is I'm not a calvinist I'm a child of the way

And the last point is limited atonement means definite atonement.

And by all means I raise the five point of tulip because it's all certain people ever go on about here, who never discuss it appropriately.

 

[Jordon]

So 2 Peter 3:8-9 declares that limited atonement means definite atonement


2 Peter 3:8-9

New International Version



8 But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. 9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

 

[timf]

1Jn_2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

 

[studentoftheword]

And by all means I raise the five point of tulip because it's all certain people ever go on about here, who never discuss it appropriately.

Well jordon I think your spiritual knowledge is limited here =====on this atonement theology

Greek word for atonement

Lexical Summary
hilasmos: Propitiation, Atoning Sacrifice
Christ's atoning blood denotes the divinely-provided means by which God’s righteous wrath against sin is averted and fellowship with Him is restored.

I say --------Jesus Sacrifice of shedding His Blood took all sin for all people ----His Blood was the Final atonement ----for all People for all time ---so now there is no limited atonement ----

All sin ----Past --Present and Future for all people has been dealt with ----so where do you get that there is LIMITED ATONEMENT ??????????????

AI
the cross was sufficient to cover all sins (past, present, future) for all people, making atonement for humanity's wrongs

1 Peter 3:18
Amplified Bible
For indeed Christ died for sins once for all, the Just and Righteous for the unjust and unrighteous [the Innocent for the guilty] so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the Spirit;

 

[Jordon]

Well jordon I think your spiritual knowledge is limited here =====on this atonement theology

Greek word for atonement

Lexical Summary
hilasmos: Propitiation, Atoning Sacrifice
Christ's atoning blood denotes the divinely-provided means by which God’s righteous wrath against sin is averted and fellowship with Him is restored.

I say --------Jesus Sacrifice of shedding His Blood took all sin for all people ----His Blood was the Final atonement ----for all People for all time ---so now there is no limited atonement ----

All sin ----Past --Present and Future for all people has been dealt with ----so where do you get that there is LIMITED ATONEMENT ??????????????

AI
the cross was sufficient to cover all sins (past, present, future) for all people, making atonement for humanity's wrongs

1 Peter 3:18
Amplified Bible
For indeed Christ died for sins once for all, the Just and Righteous for the unjust and unrighteous [the Innocent for the guilty] so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the Spirit;

well I believe its my patience, that has to be unlimited when dealing with a hundreds of different interpretation of definite atonement,

Look at the meaning of atonement it means to have your sins atoned for to

1 John 2:2

New International Version



2 He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world. So this obviously speaks of new people being born to who have yet to repent

So without question we see the that Jesus shed his blood, and has atoned the sins of the world, by being born of the flesh and sacrificing his life.

So the question do Unbelievers receive atonement upon being saved ?

It's believed that the upon conversion unbelievers receive atonement through faith or is that not true ?

 

[studentoftheword]

So the question do Unbelievers receive atonement upon being saved ?

It's believed that the upon conversion unbelievers receive atonement through faith or is that not true ?

jordon ---your not getting it ------there is no more atonement ---Jesus' atonement was good for unbelievers -----


All Unbelievers SINS have already been forgiven ---- -----Unbelievers are included in Christ's atonement -----and their sins are already forgiven ----there is no need for any more atonement for unbelievers ---

Salvation is available to unbelievers ----by God's Grace through Christ's Faith -----So a Heart Change and the INBIRTHING of Christ's Faith is the essential elements now to be saved ------

NOTE :John 6:44 AMP B---------JESUS IS SPEAKING HERE

44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him [giving him the desire to come to Me]; and I will raise him up [from the dead] on the last day.

I say -------SO NO UNBELIEVER can come to Jesus until they accept the Father's Drawing ----God knows who's heart is open to accepting His Draw --and who's hearts is like a seared iron and will reject His Draw -----


So unbelievers now ----to be Saved ----------------Have to have their Hearts Changed By God the Father from a Hardened Heart to a Heart that accepts the Gospel to have the right Faith inbirthed in them so they can Believe that Jesus is Lord --shed His Blood for their sins and that He died and was resurrected ----and they have to verbally confess that Faith out loud -------then they are saved ----

You go to Hell today for REJECTING JESUS ---who was your sacrificial atonement to take away your sins --

God is constantly Pulling on unbelievers Hearts to accept His call to have their heart changed ----We have Free will to choose to accept God's Drawing or reject it ---and Many choose to reject it ---while some accept it ----

 

[Jordon]

jordon ---your not getting it ------there is no more atonement ---Jesus' atonement was good for unbelievers -----


All Unbelievers SINS have already been forgiven ---- -----Unbelievers are included in Christ's atonement -----and their sins are already forgiven ----there is no need for any more atonement for unbelievers ---

Salvation is available to unbelievers ----by God's Grace through Christ's Faith -----So a Heart Change and the INBIRTHING of Christ's Faith is the essential elements now to be saved ------

NOTE :John 6:44 AMP B---------JESUS IS SPEAKING HERE

44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him [giving him the desire to come to Me]; and I will raise him up [from the dead] on the last day.

I say -------SO NO UNBELIEVER can come to Jesus until they accept the Father's Drawing ----God knows who's heart is open to accepting His Draw --and who's hearts is like a seared iron and will reject His Draw -----


So unbelievers now ----to be Saved ----------------Have to have their Hearts Changed By God the Father from a Hardened Heart to a Heart that accepts the Gospel to have the right Faith inbirthed in them so they can Believe that Jesus is Lord --shed His Blood for their sins and that He died and was resurrected ----and they have to verbally confess that Faith out loud -------then they are saved ----

You go to Hell today for REJECTING JESUS ---who was your sacrificial atonement to take away your sins --

God is constantly Pulling on unbelievers Hearts to accept His call to have their heart changed ----We have Free will to choose to accept God's Drawing or reject it ---and Many choose to reject it ---while some accept it ----

So just to clarify your saying unbelievers don't receive atonement upon conversion ?

 

[Jordon]

jordon ---your not getting it ------there is no more atonement ---Jesus' atonement was good for unbelievers -----


All Unbelievers SINS have already been forgiven ---- -----Unbelievers are included in Christ's atonement -----and their sins are already forgiven ----there is no need for any more atonement for unbelievers ---

it looks to me you are saying unbelievers don't receive atonement upon conversion.

So anyhoo our faith states that we are saved through faith, faith being the gift that saves us.

So can you confirm we receive atonement upon on receiving the gift of faith



Romans 3:25

New International Version



25 God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement,[a] through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished

 

[studentoftheword]

So just to clarify your saying unbelievers don't receive atonement upon conversion ?

They have already received Atonement for their SINS ___Jesus shed Blood Took away all sin for Unbelievers ----Unbeliever's sins are dealt with --NO ATONEMENT is NOW NEEDED anytime ----all they have to do is now Accept the Fathers Draw and get Christ's Faith inbirthed in them through hearing the Gospel ------

Read this very CAREFULLY -----This includes UNBELIEVERS

1 Peter 3:18
Amplified Bible
For indeed Christ died for sins once for all,
the Just and Righteous for the unjust and unrighteous [the Innocent for the guilty]
so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the Spirit;

25 God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement,[a] through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished

This scripture you quote is NOT SAYING that Atonement is Received Faith ----

this Scripture is saying Christ is to be received By Faith who's atonement took our sins ------ Sins are already forgiven =====the Blood of Jesus was the atonement and it was done when he went to the Cross -----Saving Faith receives Jesus who is our sacrificial Lamb =====

You need to ask the Holy spirit to help you interpret scripture rightly ------

 

[Jordon]

They have already received Atonement for their SINS ___Jesus shed Blood Took away all sin for Unbelievers ----Unbeliever's sins are dealt with --NO ATONEMENT is NOW NEEDED anytime ----all they have to do is now Accept the Fathers Draw and get Christ's Faith inbirthed in them through hearing the Gospel ------

Read this very CAREFULLY -----This includes UNBELIEVERS

1 Peter 3:18
Amplified Bible
For indeed Christ died for sins once for all,
the Just and Righteous for the unjust and unrighteous [the Innocent for the guilty]
so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the Spirit;




This scripture you quote is NOT SAYING that Atonement is Received Faith ----

this Scripture is saying Christ is to be received By Faith who's atonement took our sins ------ Sins are already forgiven =====the Blood of Jesus was the atonement and it was done when he went to the Cross -----Saving Faith receives Jesus who is our sacrificial Lamb =====

You need to ask the Holy spirit to help you interpret scripture rightly ------

ok so you clearly deny his word and want me to get your word by you saying you just don't get it.

Are you sure you just want me to get a piece of you ?

It's truly amazing you could reject that scripture. With the reason you have.


Romans 3:25

New International Version



25 God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement,[a] through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished


Point blank says we receive atonement upon recieving faith.

Who is saved before recieving the gift of faith ?

 

[studentoftheword]

Point blank says we receive atonement upon recieving faith.

Who is saved before recieving the gift of faith ?[/QUOTE]

Jesus saves you through His Faith which is received when you hear the Gospel ------Faith alone does not save you--------No one is saved till they receive Jesus in their hearts who took your sins away by the shedding of His Blood on the Cross --Your only SAVED AFTER YOU RECEIVE JESUS BY AND THROUGH HIS FAITH -----

 

[Jordon]

Jesus saves you through His Faith which is received when you hear the Gospel ------Faith alone does not save you--------No one is saved till they receive Jesus in their hearts who took your sins away by the shedding of His Blood on the Cross --Your only SAVED AFTER YOU RECEIVE JESUS BY AND THROUGH HIS FAITH -----

we are saved by grace through faith is the justification that we are saved, and its the lords faith we are gifted with when we are saved by grace , its his way that we are gifted with, saved people are known as the children of the way.
what you believe without his word and knowledge and the entirety of every bit of knowledge within his faith, you then learn it as his way teaches you along the way.

You saying we are not saved by faith is as inaccurate as some of things you've said already because his grace and faith are both saving acts.

Ephesians 2:8 is a key verse in Christian theology, which states we are saved by grace through faith.

We are justified by faith is wrote here Romans 3:28.

Anyhow I believe the cockerel is crowing a bit to loud in your garden, if I was you i would put a sock around it's beak.

 

[studentoftheword]

You saying we are not saved by faith i

YOU are saved BY CHRIST"S FAITH IN HIM AND WHAT HE ACCOMPLISHED ON THE CROSS _____WHICH IS ATONEMENT AND ETERNAL LIFE _____

 

[Jordon]

YOU are saved BY CHRIST"S FAITH IN HIM AND WHAT HE ACCOMPLISHED ON THE CROSS _____WHICH IS ATONEMENT AND ETERNAL LIFE _____

Christ faith in His father that satisfied his father to give his justification for us to have fellowship with the father through his son correct, but then that saving faith is gifted to us through grace.

Upon recieving that faith through his grace we receive atonement instantaneously. Which means our sins are washed clean.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

we are saved by grace through faith is the justification that we are saved, and its the lords faith we are gifted with when we are saved by grace , its his way that we are gifted with, saved people are known as the children of the way.
what you believe without his word and knowledge and the entirety of every bit of knowledge within his faith, you then learn it as his way teaches you along the way.

You saying we are not saved by faith is as inaccurate as some of things you've said already because his grace and faith are both saving acts.

Ephesians 2:8 is a key verse in Christian theology, which states we are saved by grace through faith.

We are justified by faith is wrote here Romans 3:28.

Anyhow I believe the cockerel is crowing a bit to loud in your garden, if I was you i would put a sock around it's beak.

That is the most polite,Shakespearian way I have ever seen someone to be told to shut up.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

1Jn_2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Exactly, there's no way around that.

 

[Jordon]

That is the most polite,Shakespearian way I have ever seen someone to be told to shut up.

No it was friendly gesture , those cockerels can get somewhat rowdy. With there over elaborating, they then need to rule the nest. Especially with the use of caps, it's best to tame them, before they start crowing there head of at you.

Personal I prefer canadian geese, you only have to make friends with them once.

But did you know there's been in access at least 50 attempts probably more to stir the hornets nest from people to me with there remarks , in the last few days, alone but it's a waste of time coz I'm more like a bee, I'm attracted to nice colours, so when I see other colours I don't like I kinda just fly away, knowing my sting is worth holding onto, well at least for a while anyway. It's a case to bee like the bee who knows his tulip , seeya Rosey

 

[studentoftheword]

Upon recieving that faith through his grace we receive atonement instantaneously. Which means our sins are washed clean.

You can think that but then that is not Grace what your saying ----that becomes a work ----as your saying that your atonement depends on your getting faith -------this is called cheap Grace ---

Grace is a free gift ---there is no work to you receiving this Faith ---it comes by way of Grace through Christ's Faith which is a free gift when you hear the Gospel -----