Understanding unconditional election

[Jordon]

In this sermon we get clear insight into unconditional election not being a works based religion.

Key points, unconditional election is based upon whom God is pleased to save, and whom so ever he is pleased to save.

That the decision lays solely on the gracious sovereign decision of God, on the bases of not what Good or evil we do but on God's purpose.

Nobody deserves salvation

Process of learning for the speaker over many years, of something that never sat right with him, was why should God give grace to one sinner and not the other, if nobody is deserving


Key points to this from the speaker, is the reformed position has unconditional election right, on the bases of We are saved by the will of God,

Gods will having mercy on whom he will have mercy, and Gods will having compassion on whom he will have compassion.

Gods will exercises his right to whom he saves for his purpose, not on those who meet his conditions, but on those whom he chooses to bestow in them his salvation, on the bases on one group of people receives grace the other group receives justice, nobody receives injustice from God.

The group who receive Justice are the people whom will not receive Grace, the people who receive Grace are the people who receive mercy

Here's the sermon

 

[Jordon]

It's looks like the speaker is saying God knows in advance who will believe in Christ.

 

[studentoftheword]

RC Sproul was a Calvinist --

AI

R.C. Sproul (1939-2017) was a prominent American theologian, author, and pastor known for being a staunch Calvinist, deeply rooted in Reformed theology, emphasizing doctrines like predestination and limited atonement, viewing himself as a successor to John Calvin, though he taught across various Reformed and Presbyterian institutions.

Theology: Sproul strongly affirmed core Calvinistic tenets, including the sovereignty of God in salvation, unconditional election, and Christ's specific atonement for the elect.


I say ---God wants all people saved ----God does not choose some for Heaven and some for Hell as the Calvinist think -----Scripture refutes that theory -----with this one scripture -----

 

[Jordon]

RC Sproul was a Calvinist --

AI

R.C. Sproul (1939-2017) was a prominent American theologian, author, and pastor known for being a staunch Calvinist, deeply rooted in Reformed theology, emphasizing doctrines like predestination and limited atonement, viewing himself as a successor to John Calvin, though he taught across various Reformed and Presbyterian institutions.

Theology: Sproul strongly affirmed core Calvinistic tenets, including the sovereignty of God in salvation, unconditional election, and Christ's specific atonement for the elect.


I say ---God wants all people saved ----God does not choose some for Heaven and some for Hell as the Calvinist think -----Scripture refutes that theory -----with this one scripture -----

View attachment 284452

No where in the Bible does it teach Paul was a calvinist whom rc sproul John calvin Martin Luther Augustine got a lot of there teaching from, including Jesus Christ,

And God knows who will believe in Christ,

But this sermon is why I really like rc sproul. a well loved man amongst the people, who are thankful for the great reformation, and work they did.

 

[studentoftheword]

And God knows who will believe in Christ,

God knows who's heart is ready to be open to hear His Gospel at any given time -----God pulls on every persons heart to accept His drawing -----we have free will to accept or reject that draw ---

God DOES NOT SAVE SOME PEOPLE AND ABANDON OTHER PEOPLE -----WE send OUR SELVES to HELL ----by Rejecting God's Drawing and rejecting His Son ------

AI

"No one comes to me unless the Father draws him" is a direct quote from Jesus in the Bible, found in John 6:44, emphasizing that belief and coming to Jesus for salvation is initiated and enabled by God the Father, often understood as the Holy Spirit working in a person's heart to draw them to Christ, a divine work beyond human effort alone, yet still involving a personal response.

It highlights God's sovereignty in salvation, where He actively calls and enables people, echoing Old Testament prophecies about God teaching all His people.

Key Meanings

• • Divine Initiative:
    God the Father takes the first step, drawing people to Jesus.
    
  • Spiritual Drawing:
    The Greek word for "draws" (helkuo) suggests a powerful, compelling force, like being dragged or drawn by cords of love, not mere suggestion.
    
  • Human Responsibility:
    While God initiates, people still need to respond to this drawing, coming to Jesus in faith.
    
  • Connection to Prophets:
    Jesus links this to the Old Testament prophets who said, "They will all be taught by God," indicating divine teaching is involved.
    
  • Context:
    This statement came after crowds followed Jesus for physical bread, but He taught about the true spiritual bread (Himself), revealing that spiritual understanding requires God's drawing.
    

Related Scriptures

• • John 6:65: "No one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father".
  • John 12:32: "And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself".
  • Hosea 11:4: "I led them with cords of kindness, with the bands of love".

I say ------Worth repeating

Human Responsibility:
While God initiates, people still need to respond to this drawing, coming to Jesus in faith.

 

[Jordon]

More very insightful scripture of where true reformed faith came from, for those who will have time to listen this one I highly recommend

Also there doesn't seem to be any Calvinists mentioned here

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

No where in the Bible does it teach Paul was a calvinist whom rc sproul John calvin Martin Luther Augustine got a lot of there teaching from, including Jesus Christ,

And God knows who will believe in Christ,

God knows, but He doesn't choose. Salvation is to all. It's an open call, whosoever will. Sorry for the red x but I believe the Bible is very clear here.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

@HeIsHere When I liked listening to RC on the car radio I was very naive about Calvinism, or any ism for that matter. I still like listening to him, but have a more critical eye now. I thought that he was into something good at the beginning of this video when he said God bases his choice on foreknowledge, but that kind of got lost towards the end when he focused only on God's right to make whatever choice he wants, which maybe speaks volumes for what Calvinism is and the fruit it produces.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

@HeIsHere When I liked listening to RC on the car radio I was very naive about Calvinism, or any ism for that matter. I still like listening to him, but have a more critical eye now. I thought that he was into something good at the beginning of this video when he said God bases his choice on foreknowledge, but that kind of got lost towards the end when he focused only on God's right to make whatever choice he wants, which maybe speaks volumes for what Calvinism is and the fruit it produces.

The reason I have a problem with the austere teaching that God picks and chooses whom he wants is because of what Jesus said, that all those who learn of the father (through the spirit) come to Christ. That speaks of something about humans' response to God that influences his choice. But I don't sense that cooperation in unconditional election

 

[Jordon]

God knows, but He doesn't choose. Salvation is to all. It's an open call, whosoever will. Sorry for the red x but I believe the Bible is very clear here.

It a difficult in which to find agreement but he made a valid point that John 3:16 says whoever believes and not whoever will believe

 

[Jordon]

The reason I have a problem with the austere teaching that God picks and chooses whom he wants is because of what Jesus said, that all those who learn of the father (through the spirit) come to Christ. That speaks of something about humans' response to God that influences his choice. But I don't sense that cooperation in unconditional election

He makes another valid point that our choice and will are two separate measures, on the bases that choice about believing in God is determined by the inclination we receive for those who believe, and not there will, because the same person will can say no, on the bases that all mankind is and does have the same will,

He makes no reference in other sermons that God only chooses certain individuals, what he say is God makes the decision based on who he knows will believe by the inclination they receive from him.

 

[Jordon]

God knows, but He doesn't choose. Salvation is to all. It's an open call, whosoever will. Sorry for the red x but I believe the Bible is very clear here.

2 mins 15 secs into the video he says righteousness is imputed to all those who trust in him.

All meaning absolutely anybody.

 

[Jordon]

---

-----WE send OUR SELVES to HELL -----

. This statement is impossible, Believers in Christ are known as the children of the way, the way to heaven is through the lord only he can show you the way. He is the way

Nobody can put themselves in hell without Judgment, no person unsaved is able to Judge things of spiritual nature and needs God's guiding counsel to make them spiritually aware, through his saving grace.

To say you can just put yourself in hell is to bypass Gods judgement, The just view is God makes the final judgment about each person.

The just view is God instructs commands guides and counsels a person before making a final judgment.

To say you can just put yourself in hell just takes no notice of his judgement and his final Judgment, takes no notice of all he will do for you before he makes that final call.

 

[Gideon300]

It's looks like the speaker is saying God knows in advance who will believe in Christ.

That is true. However, it does not mean that God chooses some and rejects others. He does foreordain, but according to His foreknowledge. To me that means God knows who will accept the gospel and who will not. It is also certain that we do NOT know who will accept Christ and who will not. Spurgeon is quoted as saying, "Lord, save your elect. And then elect some more." Only the hardest of hearts want to see people in hell. God is not willing that any should perish. God also takes no delight in the death of the wicked.

I know the alternative arguments, such as God accepting Jacob and rejecting Esau. Again, God sees the heart and knows the future. We must preach the gospel to all as commanded by Jesus. One day, all will become clear. Until then, let's not try to second guess God as to who will be saved and who will not.

 

[Gideon300]

. This statement is impossible, Believers in Christ are known as the children of the way, the way to heaven is through the lord only he can show you the way. He is the way

Nobody can put themselves in hell without Judgment, no person unsaved is able to Judge things of spiritual nature and needs God's guiding counsel to make them spiritually aware, through his saving grace.

To say you can just put yourself in hell is to bypass Gods judgement, The just view is God makes the final judgment about each person.

The just view is God instructs commands guides and counsels a person before making a final judgment.

To say you can just put yourself in hell just takes no notice of his judgement and his final Judgment, takes no notice of all he will do for you before he makes that final call.

The reality is, until someone accepts Christ, they are on the broad road to destruction. In that sense they are already in hell. Unbelievers are dead in trespass and sin.

There are two judgements. For the unbeliever, it is the just consequences of their lives apart from Christ. For the believer, it is the rewards for faithfulness to the calling that God has on their lives. Sin does not come into it as it is all forgiven. For the believer, it is placement in the kingdom of God. For those who reject Christ, the end is the lake of fire.

 

[GWH]

RC Sproul was a Calvinist --

AI

R.C. Sproul (1939-2017) was a prominent American theologian, author, and pastor known for being a staunch Calvinist, deeply rooted in Reformed theology, emphasizing doctrines like predestination and limited atonement, viewing himself as a successor to John Calvin, though he taught across various Reformed and Presbyterian institutions.

Theology: Sproul strongly affirmed core Calvinistic tenets, including the sovereignty of God in salvation, unconditional election, and Christ's specific atonement for the elect.


I say ---God wants all people saved ----God does not choose some for Heaven and some for Hell as the Calvinist think -----Scripture refutes that theory -----with this one scripture -----

View attachment 284452

I agree with you and think Sproul was full of prunes.

 

[Jordon]

I agree with you and think Sproul was full of prunes.

Is this the best you can come up with ?

All you ever do is go on about tulip, and you even go on to demand discussion should be about tulip when people are not even mentioning it, in fact you mention tulip probably every single day here, and her you are given an opportunity to discuss it with intelligence, which you make out you have, and all you do is come out with a blanket statement.

There's a word for your kind of behaviour.

 

[Jordon]

The reality is, until someone accepts Christ, they are on the broad road to destruction. In that sense they are already in hell. Unbelievers are dead in trespass and sin.

There are two judgements. For the unbeliever, it is the just consequences of their lives apart from Christ. For the believer, it is the rewards for faithfulness to the calling that God has on their lives. Sin does not come into it as it is all forgiven. For the believer, it is placement in the kingdom of God. For those who reject Christ, the end is the lake of fire.

God decides both, firstly what ever trust a person places in the lord, is counted to them or for them as righteousness, meaning that's the lord passing his judgment,

Next idea, the other person exactly with exactly the same will can not express that belief in the same way, because he hasn't responded the same way with the same inclination by the lord, given to the other person, who had his belief counted as righteousness, but the lord recognises both corrupted moral wills are the same and both could have said no,

The character of the lord is he does not give up at this stage and will spend as much as 40 years given counsel each day before his final judgment, now it may even be longer, because if he can do it everyday for 40 years why not longer. Well the simple answer is, in those 40 years a person could have chose hell a 1000 times, but the lord overlooked there inner darkness. Before he passed his final judgment.




Does that mean that person has chose to put himself in hell at that stage, when his word declare there's destined for hell for anyway, as God chose by his will decreed before the foundation of the earth, he would desire to save all before giving up.

But he also chose and decreed two judgements. He chose who would be saved and who wouldn't by ordaining his all means before hand, and by knows by those means he ordained, he knows who will believe and he chooses by the means he has provided

 

[Jordon]

So it looks like those who apose the bondage of the will in mankind stems from a Roman Catholic called harass-moss

 

[GWH]

Is this the best you can come up with ?

All you ever do is go on about tulip, and you even go on to demand discussion should be about tulip when people are not even mentioning it, in fact you mention tulip probably every single day here, and her you are given an opportunity to discuss it with intelligence, which you make out you have, and all you do is come out with a blanket statement.

There's a word for your kind of behaviour.

No, the best I come up with is the systematic study of the DOE on the Resolving Problematic Interpretations of Scripture thread. As I explain there, because the most divisive doctrine that causes the most argumentation on CC seems to be TULIP, that topic will be considered in a way that does not duplicate other threads by politely presenting Scripture interpreted holistically, dialectically or in context.

And it is rich that you have begun several threads about tulip featuring a tulipist (Sproul) including this one,
yet complain about my concern. The word for that behavior is "hypocrisy".