Romans 11 makes that abundantly clear.
There certainly is no spiritualizing the Israel referenced in Romans 11.
Israel.
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There certainly is no spiritualizing the Israel referenced in Romans 11.
Thank you for your reply.
Understanding ones view from start to finish helps for me to understand what is needed to be discussed in hopes of resolve according to scripture. This brings me to other questions that needs to be answered.
I believe the physical Israel needed to be in order to fulfill end time prophecy. The only nation to be born in one day as it is known is hard to deny that it wasn't prophecy fulfillment. Nevertheless here it is and here we are.
Jesus talked about the abomination of desolation, also we know that the anti-Christ will deceive Israel for the first half of the tribulation.
My questions to you is how could this ever take place if Israel never came about?
What other temple would be built and by whom, that anti-Christ would sit in.
What do you think is the abomination of desolation?
Please be patient with me I'm still learning.
That's what the entirety of Roman 9-11 does. It makes a distinction between Israel of faith (spiritual Israel) and Israel of unbelief (natural Israel). Spiritual Israel is the remnant out of natural Israel.
I guess it's time to re-issue the Romans 9-11 Challenge that no one has taken up yet
Romans 9-11 Challenge
Show one verse in Romans chapters 9-11, excluding Romans 11:26, that states anything other than a remnant is saved.
As I explained in my previous post, this is because you don"t believe what scripture says, but you believe what Judaism believes.
The abomination of desolation is something that occurred prior to the Roman siege of Jerusalem in 70AD. What it was exactly is not clear, but Christians warned by Jesus to flee Jerusalem when they saw it happen, took heed and did so before the Roman army came and surrounded the city. This is a historical fact described by Josephus and Eusebius. IMO the abomination occurred when the zealots barricaded themselves inside the temple during their coup. Jerusalem endured terrible atrocities by them after that, and then the Romans completely destroyed it.
Any building that unbelieving men build now would not be the temple of God; it by itself would be an abomination to God; a slap in God's face.
Chapter 9 explains the purpose of the remnant and that was saved
The introduction of chapter 11 places emphasis that God has not rejected "his people" and provides a definition of who is being referred to, "...Israelite myself, a descendant of Abraham, from the tribe of Benjamin." and verse elaborates the present time remnant chosen by grace. These are chosen, by grace, to fulfil Isreal's obligation, responsibility, to be a light unto the world and indeed, how many NT books were written by gentiles? And if the world has been so illuminated by just the twelve how much more will the fullness of Israel (differentiated in this chapter from the fullness of the gentiles).
In other words he/she has no idea.
So you don't believe in the rapture and believe Jesus has already returned.
She didn't say you said those things. You asked a question, she answered.
Well then?
Tell us, please?
Do you believe the Jews deserved Oct 7 because they stole the land?
Have you mentioned the synagogue of Satan ploy to pertain to all Jews?
Do you believe the Holocaust didn't happen?
I would apply that question to HeIsHere and Beekeeper ...
When Paul wrote
But if their falling [is] riches of the world, and their loss [is] riches of nations, how much more their fullness? Romans 11:12
He was not speaking of a time when natural Israel would be exalted to greatness, but was saying that natural Israel's fall resulted in spiritual Israel's greatness, Why? Because that opened the door to the gentiles who would become the fullness of spiritual Israel, ie, the body of Christ. This was prophesied by Jacob when he gave the birthright to his adopted half-Egyptian son, Ephraim, making him the firstborn who inherited all of the promises to Abraham. He foretold that the seed of Ephraim (Israel) would become a fullness of gentiles. The name Ephraim is used synonymously with Israel in scripture.
And his father [Jacob] refused and said, I know, my son, I know. He also shall be a people, and he [Manasseh] shall become great. But his younger brother [Ephraim] shall become greater than he, and his seed shall become a fullness of gentiles. Genesis 48:19
The seed of Israel becoming a fullness of gentiles is obviously referring to the body of Christ that inherits all of the promises to AbrahamAnd if you are of Christ, then you are the seed of Abraham, and heirs according to promise. Galatians 3:29
For all the promises of God are yea and amen in Christ unto the glory of God through us. 2 Corinthians 1:20
To highlight the fact that every other part of Romans 9-11 says that only a remnant is ever saved. Verse 26 cannot contradict that rule that Paul meticulously established over the course of 3 chapters.
No, I do not believe in a sneaky pre-trib rapture. That idea was invented because dispensationalism doesn't work without it.
No, Jesus has obviously not already returned.
Right where there is a crowd that believes He has returned. So you do believe in the rapture...
So why did he say it? I've heard it argued either way, as I have said, God knows the numbers.
He was saying that all of the elect (the believing remnant) throughout all of history will be saved by the new covenant removal of their sins.
No one who belongs to Christ will be on earth when he returns because it is written that they will be lifted up in the clouds to meet the resurrected saints in the air at the 7th trumpet.
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