Yes falsely accuse me and ignore scripture presented to you that it is the Holy Spirit that enables us to obey God. You are a perfect example of someone who is hostile to God being governed by the flesh.
The Ten Commandments are the Covenant, did you know?
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Yes falsely accuse me and ignore scripture presented to you that it is the Holy Spirit that enables us to obey God. You are a perfect example of someone who is hostile to God being governed by the flesh.
Yes the Holy Spirit does in fact enable us to obey through both past and continued sanctification, however we will never be made perfect in this life. We are not Christ, and even though we are being made like Him, we are not there yet!Yes falsely accuse me and ignore scripture presented to you that it is the Holy Spirit that enables us to obey God. You are a perfect example of someone who is hostile to God being governed by the flesh.
I do not have a clue what you are saying here beckworth. You have quotes lumped together and you appear to be responding to my post about the commandments.
If you are trying to tell me that Christians are not under the old law, you should know I have been saying that through the entire thread and others by the op.
If there is something you want to say to me, make it clearer and quote me and respond. Please leave out anything by ms blessing who is undernourished when it comes to the New Testament.
I asked AI whether what you stated is true.
Let's see if you used "Scripture only" first.
I know your not being sincere.
Here is what AI said in response to your manipulated question of AI.
Short answer:
No — I would not give that reply as written, because several of its key conclusions are not stated by Scripture itself, but are theological distinctions imposed onto the text that Scripture never explicitly makes.
Below is a Scripture-only response, interacting directly with the claims.
1. Does Scripture itself limit “sabbaths” in Colossians 2:16 to ceremonial sabbaths only?
Colossians 2:16–17 (NKJV)
“So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths,
which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.”
Scripture does not say:which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.”
- “ceremonial sabbaths”
- “festival sabbaths only”
- “excluding the weekly Sabbath”
2. Does the Old Testament phrase “festival, new moon, sabbaths” exclude the weekly Sabbath?
The phrase does appear repeatedly, but Scripture never defines it as excluding the weekly Sabbath.
Example:
Ezekiel 45:17
“Then it shall be the prince’s part to give burnt offerings, grain offerings, and drink offerings, at the feasts, the new moons, and the sabbaths…”
This verse:- Lists offerings
- Includes sabbaths
- Does not distinguish between “weekly” and “ceremonial”
Nehemiah 10:33
“For the showbread, the regular grain offering, the regular burnt offering of the Sabbaths, the New Moons, and the appointed feasts…”
Scripture does not say:- “regular burnt offering of the ceremonial sabbaths”
- Nor does it exclude the seventh day
3. Are sabbaths ever called “shadows” elsewhere in Scripture?
Yes.
Colossians 2:17
“which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.”
Scripture itself says:- The listed things are shadows
- Christ is the substance
- “some sabbaths are shadows, but one is not”
- “only festival sabbaths are shadows”
4. Is the weekly Sabbath ever connected to covenantal sign rather than eternal moral law?
Yes.
Exodus 31:13
“Surely My Sabbaths you shall keep, for it is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations…”
Exodus 31:16–17“Therefore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath… as a perpetual covenant.
It is a sign between Me and the children of Israel forever…”
Scripture explicitly says:It is a sign between Me and the children of Israel forever…”
- The Sabbath is a sign
- Between God and Israel
- As a covenant marker
5. Does the New Testament treat the Sabbath as binding on believers?
Romans 14:5
“One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind.”
Galatians 4:9–11“But now after you have known God… how is it that you turn again to the weak and beggarly elements…
You observe days and months and seasons and years.
I am afraid for you…”
Hebrews 4:9–10You observe days and months and seasons and years.
I am afraid for you…”
“There remains therefore a rest for the people of God.
For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His.”
The rest is no longer tied to a calendar day, but to Christ Himself.For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His.”
6. Does Scripture ever divide the Law into “moral” and “ceremonial”?
No.
Scripture speaks of:
- The law (singular)
- The whole law
“For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.”
Galatians 3:10“For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse…”
Scripture never creates a two-law system.Conclusion (Scripture only)
What Scripture does say:
- Sabbaths (plural) are included in Colossians 2:16
- Those sabbaths are called shadows
- Christ is the substance
- Believers are not to be judged regarding days
- Rest is fulfilled in Christ
- That the weekly Sabbath is excluded
- That only “ceremonial sabbaths” are shadows
- That the Ten Commandments are divided into eternal vs temporary categories
I would not have given that reply, because it adds distinctions Scripture never states, even though it quotes Scripture accurately.
So AI is now debating itself on the 4th commandment, nice.
The Sabbath has several different meanings- I explained it clearly with context in a previous post.
Jesus said His Sabbath would not end Mat24:21-30 Isa66:22-23 - that's where my faith lies, in Jesus.
The only way you can insert your theology into any AI question.
Is by excluding "scripture only".
If you do not insert "scripture only" into the question then AI will give the theological options.
One of these theological options is "moral law and ceremonial law".
Your are a deceptive person and your not telling the truth.
Here is what AI said in response to your omission of "scripture only".
Therefore:
I would not have given that reply, because it adds distinctions Scripture never states, even though it quotes Scripture accurately.
IT ADDS DISTINCTIONS SCRIPTURE NEVER STATES.
I need an honest reply from you.
Does the scripture ever state that the ten commandments are moral?
Does the scripture ever divide the law into moral and ceremonial?
When the phrase "the law" occurs in the N.T does it ever mean anything but the whole law?
Maybe your AI is broken.
I still believe Jesus over AI Mat 24:20-30 Isa66:22-23
Using Scripture only is Col2:16 about the seventh day Sabbath
If we answer using Scripture only, the question is whether Colossians 2:16 refers to the seventh-day Sabbath.
Colossians 2:16 (KJV)
“Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:”
The phrase “holyday, new moon, sabbath days” appears together many times in Scripture.The exact biblical pattern
This threefold sequence occurs in the Old Testament:
- 1 Chronicles 23:31
“And to offer all burnt sacrifices unto the LORD in the sabbaths, in the new moons, and on the set feasts…”
- 2 Chronicles 2:4
“…on the sabbaths, and on the new moons, and on the solemn feasts of the LORD our God.”
- Ezekiel 45:17
“…in the feasts, and in the new moons, and in the sabbaths…”
- Hosea 2:11
“I will also cause all her mirth to cease, her feast days, her new moons, and her sabbaths…”
This formula always includes the weekly Sabbath, not only annual feast days.The seventh-day Sabbath defined in Scripture
- Exodus 20:8–11
“The seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God…”
- Exodus 31:16–17
“…the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath… for a perpetual covenant.”
What Paul adds in contextColossians 2:17 continues:
“Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.”
Scripture identifies feast sabbaths as shadows:- Leviticus 23:24, 32, 39 (ceremonial sabbaths tied to feasts)
- It was instituted before sin (Genesis 2:2–3)
- It is part of the Ten Commandments (Exodus 20)
- It points back to creation, not forward only
Yes, Colossians 2:16 includes the weekly seventh-day Sabbath in wording because it has different meanings
but Scripture distinguishes between:
- Ceremonial sabbaths (shadows, feast-related)
- The seventh-day Sabbath (creation ordinance, moral law)
Using Scripture only, “shadow laws” are laws or ordinances that Scripture itself calls a shadow—meaning they point forward to something greater that would come later.
The Bible’s own definition
Colossians 2:17
“Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.”
A shadow is something that prefigures or foreshadows a future reality.What Scripture calls “shadows”
1. The ceremonial law
These laws are directly identified as shadows.
Hebrews 10:1
“For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things…”
This refers to:- Sacrifices
- Offerings
- Priestly rituals
Explicitly called a shadow.
Hebrews 8:4–5
“…who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things…”
Hebrews 9:9–10“Which was a figure for the time then present…
Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed until the time of reformation.”
3. Feast days and feast sabbathsConnected to the sacrificial system.
Leviticus 23:24, 27, 32, 39
“…it shall be a sabbath unto you…”
These are annual sabbaths tied to feasts, not the weekly Sabbath.4. New moons
Always connected to sacrifices.
Numbers 28:11–15
“And in the beginnings of your months (new moons) ye shall offer a burnt offering…”
What Scripture does NOT call a shadowThe seventh-day Sabbath
- Instituted at creation (Genesis 2:2–3)
- Given before sin
- Written by God’s finger (Exodus 31:18)
- Never called a shadow anywhere in Scripture
- Ceremonial ordinances:
- “Added because of transgressions” (Galatians 3:19)
- Included sacrifices and rituals
- Moral law:
- “Holy, just, and good” (Romans 7:12)
- Defines sin (1 John 3:4)
Shadow laws in Scripture are:
Temporary ceremonial ordinances that pointed forward to Christ and His work,
which ceased when the reality arrived.
If you want, I can:- List every shadow law named in Scripture
- Or show why sacrifices stopped but moral law did not, using Scripture only
Was the weekly Sabbath ever called a shadow law?
No. Using Scripture only: the weekly (seventh-day) Sabbath is never explicitly called a “shadow” anywhere in the Bible.
What is called a shadow is “the law” in contexts that clearly involve sacrifices/ordinances and the festival calendar.
Where “shadow” language is used (and what it’s attached to)
1) Colossians 2:16–17
It lists:
- “holyday” (feast days)
- “new moon”
- “sabbath days”
and then says:
“Which are a shadow of things to come…” (Col 2:17)
But Colossians itself does not separate which of the listed items are shadows; it just says the whole package was being used for judgment.2) Hebrews identifies the “shadow” as sacrificial/ceremonial
- Hebrews 10:1
“The law having a shadow of good things to come…”
Then Hebrews immediately discusses sacrifices (Heb 10:1–10).- Hebrews 9:9–10
“…meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed… until the time of reformation.”
So the “shadow” language is directly tied to ritual ordinances.The weekly Sabbath’s origin and framing in Scripture
The weekly Sabbath is grounded in creation, not introduced as a later ceremonial symbol:
- Genesis 2:2–3
God “rested… and sanctified” the seventh day.
- Exodus 20:8–11
The Sabbath command is based on creation: “for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth…”
And Scripture calls the Sabbath a sign, not a shadow:- Exodus 31:16–17
“…a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever…”
(“Sign” is the Bible’s word here, not “shadow.”)Important nuance (still Scripture-only)
While the weekly Sabbath is not called a shadow, some “sabbaths” are clearly ceremonial, because Leviticus calls certain feast-days “sabbaths”:
- Leviticus 23:24, 32, 39
Feast-related days are called “a sabbath” in connection with appointed feasts.
Bottom line
- Weekly seventh-day Sabbath: never labeled a “shadow” in Scripture.
- Ceremonial/festival sabbaths + ordinances: Scripture does place “shadow” language around these systems (especially Hebrews, and the “holyday/new moon/sabbaths” cluster).
This was by my own personal bible study, studying the context Paul gave around these verses and finding them in the Scriptures. Instead of using AI, which is not guided by the Holy Spirit, can you address this post and its context? We should never make the Bible contradict the teachings of Jesus, especially something He takes ownership of like the holy day of the Lord Isa58:13
There are several different Sabbaths in the Bible that uses the same word, but has very different meanings.
There is the seventh day Sabbath- instituted at Creation Exo20:11 Gen2:1-3, came before sin, reaffirmed in the Ten Commandments Exo20:8-11, written by God personally Exo31:18, placed inside God’s ark Exo40:20 God called it “the holy day of the Lord” Isa58:13
There are the annual sabbath(s) feast days that are always tied to animal sacrifices, they don’t always fall on the seventh day can be on any day and came after the fall and were handwritten by Moses, placed besides the ark of God’s covenant came after sin.
- 1st day of Unleavened Bread
- 7th day of Unleavened Bread
- Pentecost
- Trumpets
- Day of Atonement
- 1st day of Tabernacles
- 8th day of Tabernacles
There is the Day of Atonement Sabbath where fasting is required Lev16:31 Lev 23:27-32
There is the seventh year Sabbath that is every 7th year where the land should rest Lev25:1-7
The Jubilee Sabbath (50th) year Lev 25:8-17
So I think we are being quick to assume by seeing the word Sabbath that has different meanings and assuming it means the Holy Day of the Lord that comes with God's blessing and sanctification , without looking at the context that Paul carefully gave and we should let the Bible interpret itself.
Col 2:14 KJV Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to His cross.
Col 2:14 NASB having canceled the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.
Greek word for handwriting: χειρόγραφον (cheirographon)
Literally: “something written by hand
Ordinances
τοῖς δόγμασιν (tois dogmasin)
Meaning: “decrees,” “regulations,” “legal demands”
It is a legal document that condemns sinners why Paul used the word “against us” and “contrary to us”. The law does not condemn the righteous, it condemns the sinners.
Just from this context that Paul gave we can eliminate the Ten Commandments, but lets let Scripture interpret Scripture.
Who wrote the handwritten ordinances?
2 Chron 33:8 and I will not again remove the foot of Israel from the land which I have appointed for your fathers—only if they are careful to do all that I have commanded them, according to the whole law and the statutes and the ordinances by the hand of Moses.
What law is the law that was contrary and against?
Deut 31:24-26 So it was, when Moses had completed writing the words of this law in a book, when they were finished, 25 that Moses commanded the Levites, who bore the ark of the covenant of the Lord, saying: 26 “Take this Book of the Law, and put it beside the ark of the covenant of the Lord your God, that it may be there as a witness against you;
It appears from the text that this is not referring to the Sabbath in the Ten Commandments that was written by God Himself by His finger Exo31:18 placed inside the ark of the covenant, not besides like the annual sabbath(s) connected to animal sacrifices.
This is the law that was taken away at the Cross.
Col 2:16 let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
This is the exact language referring to the annual sabbath(s) that were handwritten by Moses, placed besides the ark that refer to annual feasts days, sacrifices and offerings that some were also called sabbath(s)
Eze 45:17 and it shall be the prince's part to give burnt offerings, and meat offerings, and drink offerings, in the feasts, and in the new moons, and in the sabbaths, in all solemnities of the house of Israel: he shall prepare the sin offering, and the meat offering, and the burnt offering, and the peace offerings, to make reconciliation for the house of Israel.
What did Jesus say He would come to put an end to? (compared to magnifying another law- by placing it in our hearts Isa42:21 Heb8:10)
Dan 9:27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week;
But in the middle of the week
He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.
Col 2:17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ
What are the shadows laws? Lets let the Scriptures define what they are
Heb 10:1 For the law, having a shadow of the good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with these same sacrifices, which they offer continually year by year, make those who approach perfect. 2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? For the worshipers, once []purified, would have had no more consciousness of sins. 3 But in those sacrifices there is a reminder of sins every year. 4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins.
5 Therefore, when He came into the world, He said:
“Sacrifice and offering You did not desire,
But a body You have prepared for Me.
6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin
You had no pleasure.
7 Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come—
In the volume of the book it is written of Me—
To do Your will, O God.’ ”
8 Previously saying, “Sacrifice and offering, burnt offerings, and offerings for sin You did not desire, nor had pleasure in them” (which are offered according to the law), 9 then He said, “Behold, I have come to do Your will, []O God.” He takes away the first that He may establish the second. 10 By that will we have been []sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all
This fits the context of this passage perfectly and makes the Bible harmonize because we see Sabbath-keeping (every Sabbath) 30+ years after the Cross just as Jesus Himself indicated Isa 56:6-7 Acts 13:42, Acts 13:44 Acts 15:21 Acts 18:4 and up to His Second Coming Mat24:20-30 and forever Isa66:22-23
Nope. You said, "the law that was taken away at the cross". "the law" - it is singular, yet you specified laws - plural. So, you are partially correct: those saved are removed from THE LAW - singular - removed from being under any and all of the law in total (except for the law of Christ) when saved, or should I say THE LAW is removed from those saved but not the unsaved. Notice the "the law" below. By the "the" in each verse, it represents law in the singular - law in its greatest and most inclusive form and state - all of law, not laws, those saved are no longer under by Christ.
[Rom 6:14 KJV]
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
[Gal 3:10 KJV]
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed [is] every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
[Gal 4:21 KJV]
21 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?
[Gal 5:18 KJV]
18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
[Heb 7:11 KJV]
11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need [was there] that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
[Rom 8:2 KJV]
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Why the emphasis on not being able to live as God wants us to? That's not how God wants us to live. Living in the Spirit emphasizes growth in Christ, not digression back to sin.
Growing to become more and more like Christ actually feels good because it pleases God and he shares that feeling with His child, i honestly don't ever want to backslide from the progress the Holy Spirit makes in me if it makes God so happy!
I agree
Jesus is our righteousness.
But some stop there..
They do not go on to love the LORD for the life He gave. Love inspires us to be like Him and Love inspires us to obey Him.
True obedience is a living, active principle that springs from a heart transformed by God's grace. When we truly love the Lord, we find delight in walking in His ways.
16 I will delight myself in your statutes: I will not forget your word. 47 And I will delight myself in your commandments, which I have loved. Psalm 119:16, 47.
While we are justified by faith without the deeds of the law, that faith is made manifest through our works.
26 Behold, I set before you this day a blessing and a curse; 27 A blessing, if you obey the commandments of the LORD your God, which I command you this day: 28 And a curse, if you will not obey the commandments of the LORD your God, but turn aside out of the way which I command you this day, to go after other gods, which you have not known. Deuteronomy 11:26-28
Do say.... it is impossible or not required
Say... Jesus strengthen me, have faith.
Christ yielded a sinless obedience and kept His Father's commandments perfectly Hebrews 4:15.
And He was as weak as we are, saying "I can of mine own self do nothing," He was tempted in all points yet remained without sin.
Heb 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
Romans 1:5
By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:
Received grace, for obedience to the faith
Many people keep saying obedience is impossible... they lack faith
With God all things are possible.. with God we can have victory.
Num 13:30-31
30 And Caleb stilled the people before Moses, and said, Let us go up at once, and possess it; for we are well able to overcome it. 31 But the men that went up with him said, We be not able to go up against the people; for they are stronger than we.
Num 14:2 And all the children of Israel murmured against Moses and against Aaron: and the whole congregation said unto them, Would God that we had died in the land of Egypt! or would God we had died in this wilderness!
Read all of chapter 14.. God had great plans for His, great victories if only they trusted in the Lord.
But because they lacked faith in God's ability they died in the wilderness.
Do you believe in God's power to give you the victory?
I now you will never believe this but the Scriptures you quoted are all ripped from its context. I could go through each one and compare it to Scripture what “under the law” means” even reading Pauls writings in context will tell you it doesn’t mean not keeping God’s commandments. He says that leads someone outside God’s Kingdom Gal 5:18-21 why Paul taught what matters is keeping God’s commandments 1Cor7:19
God’s saints keep God’s commandments until the Second Coming of Christ. No one will ever be able to convince me that the law of God that God himself wrote Exo31:18 that starts with not worshipping other gods and ends with not coveting is wrong to keep, and being disobedient to Him is right. I trust that what He wrote that is under His mercy seat Exo25:21 Rev11:19 is meant to bless us, but we are given free will
Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.
Rev 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.
I would rather get a big x under my name in this world than have Rev22:15 Mat7:23 1 John2:4
The "the law" is singular, period. The point of those verses is that those saved are no longer under THE LAW at all. Nothing was "ripped" from them but instead was explained about them.
Heb8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people
Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.
Who is saying that obedience is impossible? Now in regard to the children of Israel, though you already know all this, I want to remind you that the Lord at one time delivered his people out of Egypt, but later destroyed those who did not believe. (Jude 1:5) Their murmuring against Moses and against Aaron and their lack of trust in God was a manifestation of their unbelief.
Well, if you're wrong about THE LAW - and you are - then it is you who had better beware regarding Rev.
God will be all of our Judges nothing we can hide from Him Ecc12:13-14 James2:11-12
Yeah, but that isn't 'THE LAW" as you define them. It is the laws associated to the salvation of Christ, otherwise, the New Covenant would be in conflict with itself. The OC laws are no longer in effect for those under the NC