The Book of Revelation, verse-by-verse, Chapter Thirteen

[Psalm1]

I do not understand your position.
War is upon the saints (Rev. 13:7)
Some saints are gathered (Rev. 12:6)
Other saints are gathered (Rev. 12:14)
They came out of great tribulation (Rev. 7:14)

This clearly disputes the pre-trib doctrine.

Those verses PROVE, no saints "go through" the gt.
It clearly , clearly says they either take the mark or die.
Reread it without omitting what it says.

REV 7
13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
Rev 13
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

 

[LTL]

Those verses PROVE, no saints "go through" the gt.
It clearly , clearly says they either take the mark or die.
Reread it without omitting what it says.

REV 7
13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
Rev 13
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

I am not here to argue with you. If you want a reasonable conversation as to how I arrive at my interpretation, then I am willing to engage in that conversation. But stop with your disrespectful attacks.

 

[Psalm1]

I am not here to argue with you. If you want a reasonable conversation as to how I arrive at my interpretation, then I am willing to engage in that conversation. But stop with your disrespectful attacks.

Those verses should not be a problem.
It says :
All take the mark . All...not written in the book.
It says they take the mark or die.
It says over a million martyred DURING THE GT.

That is what it says, and it is clear and plain.
I do not argue it.
I report it.

 

[Psalm1]

I do not understand your position.
War is upon the saints (Rev. 13:7)
Some saints are gathered (Rev. 12:6)
Other saints are gathered (Rev. 12:14)
They came out of great tribulation (Rev. 7:14)

This clearly disputes the pre-trib doctrine.

QUOTE
""Some saints are gathered (Rev. 12:6)
Other saints are gathered (Rev. 12:14""

Rev12
1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

Context, context, context.
The woman birthing Jesus is Israel.

See this is the thing, if, " Jacob's trouble" is changed to, "churches trouble", then things are misunderstood.

Rev 12 can not be the church "gathered".

It, in no way, fits.

 

[LTL]

Those verses should not be a problem.
It says :
All take the mark . All...not written in the book.
It says they take the mark or die.
It says over a million martyred DURING THE GT.

That is what it says, and it is clear and plain.
I do not argue it.
I report it.

Okay. I stand corrected.
The tribulation starts with the fall of Babylon, which is the economic system (Rev. 17).
Then there is civil war (Rev. 18).
Then the beast, having success, makes war upon the saints (Rev. 13:7).
During this period, the 144,000 are sequestered (Rev. 12:6).
After the Savior has prepared his army of 144,000, they engage in the harvest (Rev. 12:14).
Both groups of saints came out of Great Tribulation (Rev. 7:14).
That is, everyone goes into the GT. This proves that the pre-tribulation rapture is false doctrine.

I apologise for being short with you. But some of the people on this site are ravenous dogs.

 

[Psalm1]

I am not here to argue with you. If you want a reasonable conversation as to how I arrive at my interpretation, then I am willing to engage in that conversation. But stop with your disrespectful attacks.

Show me " disrespectful" in my post to you.

I will await your claim.

 

[Psalm1]

Okay. I stand corrected.
The tribulation starts with the fall of Babylon, which is the economic system (Rev. 17).
Then there is civil war (Rev. 18).
Then the beast, having success, makes war upon the saints (Rev. 13:7).
During this period, the 144,000 are sequestered (Rev. 12:6).
After the Savior has prepared his army of 144,000, they engage in the harvest (Rev. 12:14).
Both groups of saints came out of Great Tribulation (Rev. 7:14).
That is, everyone goes into the GT. This proves that the pre-tribulation rapture is false doctrine.

I apologise for being short with you. But some of the people on this site are ravenous dogs.

The trib starts with the white horse rider.
He comes as a killer ("CONQUERING"), and and with a 7 yr covenant.( a bow).

The antichrist has a mission. The devil in him has a mission.
Destroy God's people.
That is his passion and obsession.

 

[Psalm1]

Show me " disrespectful" in my post to you.

I will await your claim.

@LTL , I kinda figured it was another member disrespecting you.

it is part of this site.
Some of it is lively debate, and some is passion defending doctrine.

 

[LTL]

QUOTE
""Some saints are gathered (Rev. 12:6)
Other saints are gathered (Rev. 12:14""

Rev12
1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

Context, context, context.
The woman birthing Jesus is Israel.

See this is the thing, if, " Jacob's trouble" is changed to, "churches trouble", then things are misunderstood.

Rev 12 can not be the church "gathered".

It, in no way, fits.

The Book of Revelation has four storylines and is designed to cross-reference between these storylines, and not to other books of scripture. So stay in the four storylines to find the prophecy.

There are two ways to read Chapter Twelve. One is linear as you have demonstrated, and the other is spiral, which I will show when i get to that Chapter.

In the lineal application of the chapter above, the church of Christ (Rev. 12:1-2) is contrasted with the church of Lucifer (Rev. 12:3-4). Lucifer has captured some of the saints called stars from the church of Christ. These are shown as the followers of Wormwood in Rev. 8:10-11.
During the time that he captures these saints, he also tries to capture the Moses (Rev. 12:5, Rev. 15:3), a member of the church (Rev. 12:2). However the Moses is protected and takes his 144,000 to a safe location (Rev. 12:6).

I will cover all of this when I get to Chapter Twelve.

 

[LTL]

@LTL , I kinda figured it was another member disrespecting you.

it is part of this site.
Some of it is lively debate, and some is passion defending doctrine.

Point well taken. Thank you.
Okay, I will start a new thread on Chapter Twelve.
I look forward to visiting with you there.