Is one’s eternal fate set in stone?

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Just because God knew the outcome before we were born does not mean we did not cause the deciding factor.

What God (being omniscient) knows will be our final decision?
It is set in stone.
That is not to be confused with we were having no choice in what God knew.

God does not tamper with what God has delegated to man for his own area of sovereignty.
Man's volition.

The Lord will never change.

His nature is fully revealed in the fruit of the Holy Spirit; love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness.

The Lord always behaved in kindness, goodness, and agape love (self sacrifice).

The Lord loved us more than we can comprehend.

Only good things come from above.

Anyone that tells you that Jesus predestined people to damnation, does not understand His nature.
 
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Salvation in Christ is simple.
"Simply believe."

Maturing in Christ?
After salvation?
Is not simple.
It requires endurance, perseverance, and concentration.

.
maturing in Christ is still simple. Endurance, perseverance, and concentration all come from trusting Him. They all come from Him. If it isn’t simple then it may be because you’re trying to produce them on your own. My point is it doesn’t take studying scripture your entire life and knowing what creed says what to follow Christ, just love and with love comes trust. Just look at what He said to the Pharisees in John 5:39-40. Just as He doesn’t live in buildings built by the hands of men Acts 17:24, He also does not live in the Bible. But His Spirit lives in us. When we love one another, we are also loving Him.
 
I believe that no our destinies are not set in stone if they were then believing in the name of Jesus would be pointless and prayer would be pointless being saved is about surrender total surrender to the father not about whether or not one even can be saved to begin with
 
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Where in scripture is that?

So.. for receiving salvation look at John 3:16, 5:24, 6:40.. Romans 10:9-10

Then looking at what we build onto the faith:

1 Corinthians 3:11-15 KJV
For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. [12] Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; [13] Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. [14] If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. [15] If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

So then you look at the church epistles from Paul..especially Ephesians..and faithful believers in the local church have a destiny with more gold, silver etc..figuratively.

Believers who build on their faith with wood, stubble, hay etc.. (also figuratively)..don't get the same rewards. Although still a place in heaven.
 
maturing in Christ is still simple. Endurance, perseverance, and concentration all come from trusting Him.

That all sounds very nice.
But, where are you going to get the needed truth of Scripture from?

How are you going to know what to do when real testing comes?
(if you ever will qualify for real testing, that is)

My point is it doesn’t take studying scripture your entire life and knowing what creed says what to follow Christ, just love and with love comes trust.

That is all there is to it?

That was said in ignorance?

Jesus replied, “It’s written, People won’t live only by bread,
but by every word spoken by God.” Matthew 4:4​

We need to find an excellent teacher of God's Word!
Very few out of the many Bible teachers out there will so qualify!

James 3:1 + 2 Timothy 4:3.

Many will be teaching what they sense others want to hear.
Not what they need to hear.
 
The Lord will never change.

His nature is fully revealed in the fruit of the Holy Spirit; love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness.

The Lord always behaved in kindness, goodness, and agape love (self sacrifice).

The Lord loved us more than we can comprehend.

Only good things come from above.

Anyone that tells you that Jesus predestined people to damnation, does not understand His nature.

OK....

Was that in agreement with what I said?
 
So.. for receiving salvation look at John 3:16, 5:24, 6:40.. Romans 10:9-10

Then looking at what we build onto the faith:

1 Corinthians 3:11-15 KJV
For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. [12] Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; [13] Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. [14] If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. [15] If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

So then you look at the church epistles from Paul..especially Ephesians..and faithful believers in the local church have a destiny with more gold, silver etc..figuratively.

Believers who build on their faith with wood, stubble, hay etc.. (also figuratively)..don't get the same rewards. Although still a place in heaven.
Ok. I don’t see the rewards being based on how many times you attend a local congregation or being faithful to a local congregation in that. Helping to build the faith of others can be done at work, in school, at home or anywhere else being there is only one church. I would say being faithful to Him and His church is most important and that doesn’t mean sitting in a building once a week but rather inviting Him to sit in you 24/7. I would say that street preachers many not having their own congregations do more than many regular pastors. But hey to each his own. God bless brother.
 
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That all sounds very nice.
But, where are you going to get the needed truth of Scripture from?

How are you going to know what to do when real testing comes?
(if you ever will qualify for real testing, that is)



That is all there is to it?

That was said in ignorance?

Jesus replied, “It’s written, People won’t live only by bread,
but by every word spoken by God.” Matthew 4:4​

We need to find an excellent teacher of God's Word!
Very few out of the many Bible teachers out there will so qualify!

James 3:1 + 2 Timothy 4:3.

Many will be teaching what they sense others want to hear.
Not what they need to hear.

Every word spoken by God was merely the preparation for the gospel (the good news).

1 Corinthians 1:23
But we preach Christ crucified, to Jews a stumbling block and to Gentiles foolishness.

Corinthians 2:2
For I determined to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ, and Him crucified.

What is so difficult to grasp?
 
From our point of view, most certainly not. Our future depends on our choices. However, God knows the beginning, the future and everything in between. He knows what we will choose and how it works out. God's people can intercede with God. For example, God told Abraham that He was going to destroy Sodom. Abraham knew that his nephew Lot was living there with his family. So he asked God not to destroy Sodom. God listened to Abraham and as a result, Lot and his family escaped. However, Sodom did not.

We should live as if God is not immovable and set in stone. Our God can be moved by our prayers. If we see others struggling, we can pray for them and see God move to deliver even what seems to be hopeless people.
But how can the outcome be changed (I believe it can be) if the Lord already knows the outcome? I’m not a Calvinist, and am not looking to argue, it’s a sincere question I have.
 
But how can the outcome be changed (I believe it can be) if the Lord already knows the outcome?
Because He sees what we haven’t done yet whereas we don’t. Our destiny is known by the Lord but unknown by us. So in our eyes it can be changed. In His eyes has is already happened. So unless He ruins the surprise and directly tells you your destiny, it will still depend on your actions in this life.
 
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Ok. I don’t see the rewards being based on how many times you attend a local congregation or being faithful to a local congregation in that. Helping to build the faith of others can be done at work, in school, at home or anywhere else being there is only one church. I would say being faithful to Him and His church is most important and that doesn’t mean sitting in a building once a week but rather inviting Him to sit in you 24/7. I would say that street preachers many not having their own congregations do more than many regular pastors. But hey to each his own. God bless brother.

Well, I don't mean the church building.. but meeting regularly with the local congregation themselves. Whether that be in a building or a home.

The home or the building not being a church, but the local congregation of saved, baptised believers being the local church.
 
Well, I don't mean the church building.. but meeting regularly with the local congregation themselves. Whether that be in a building or a home.

The home or the building not being a church, but the local congregation of saved, baptised believers being the local church.
Yea I get what you mean but I just don’t think it’s about the attendance thing. Let’s look at this scenario:

John 1 has a job where he works every weekend and is never able to attend a local congregation but he shares the gospel with all of the people he comes in contact with on the road while working. He has a strong faith and a strong prayer life.

John 2 attends his local congregation every Sunday and is an elder and worship leader. Although for the other 6 days of the week he may pray once or twice and spends most of his time watching football and not really thinking about the Lord.

Which one is doing more for the church?
 
OK....

Was that in agreement with what I said?

Because God's divine and unconditional love for humanity was not the underlying
feature, in your simplistic, philosophical explanation. I just ignored your post and
simply explained our domain. Our domain is not trying to understand how God
executes His will towards humanity. Rather understanding the full revelation of
Jesus Christ is more to the point.

We don't chatter about things that no one has any hope of understanding.

God is infinitely powerful and what does that mean, Genez?

God knows everything in eternity so what does that mean?

Is everything set in stone?

Impossible questions to answer.

The Lord's ways are far beyond our comprehension and that's His domain not mine.
 
I have never read in scripture where Jesus or any of His apostles says to a lost person “You were born destined for hell, and there’s not a thing you can do about it. You were eternally decreed for hell and you cannot change the outcome. You do not have the right or the opportunity to be saved, because I want you to be lost in hell for all eternity. My foreknowledge prevents you from being saved. The Lord’s omniscience has blocked you from responding to the gospel call of salvation, so your eternal fate is sealed in stone”

Instead, I find the opposite. I find where Jesus says

“Follow me”

“If any man hear my voice..”

“Whosoever”

“Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.”

“Enter ye in at the strait gate…”

“Except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.”

“Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.”

“And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.”

“Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.”

“Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.”

Jesus made salvation available “among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem”

“And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem”

The Lord says through His disciples/apostles:

“And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent”

“The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”

“And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.”

“Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.”

“Understandest thou what thou readest?”

“And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.”

“Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord”

“Whosoever”

Whenever a lost individual is wondering how to be saved, is wondering how to be born again, we do not read where the individual questions God’s omniscience, wondering if it’s hopeless due to wondering if the outcome cannot be changed.

Instead, we read where they either asked or said

“Men and brethren, what shall we do?”

“Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”

“Now therefore are we all here present before God, to hear all things that are commanded thee of God”

“We will hear thee again of this matter.”

“How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.”

“See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?”

Even those who we read about rejecting the gospel when it’s first presented to them, none of them use God’s foreknowledge as an excuse to not be saved, or question whether they can be.

Instead, we read where they either said or was said to have reacted in this manner below.

“Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian.”

“some mocked”

“ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye”

“When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth”

In all these instances, not a single one was told by Jesus and His disciples “You were born destined for hell, and there’s not a thing you can do about it. You were eternally decreed for hell and you cannot change the outcome. You do not have the right or the opportunity to be saved, because I want you to be lost in hell for all eternity. My foreknowledge prevents you from being saved. The Lord’s omniscience has blocked you from responding to the gospel call of salvation, so your eternal fate is sealed in stone.”

Instead, they were told how to be saved, beginning on Pentecost, just as the Lord said.

“Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation. Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.”

And not a single one of the lost individuals who were seekers and got saved questioned God’s omniscience of wondering if their salvation is hopeless, due to wondering if the outcome could not be changed.

“But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.
If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master’s use, and prepared unto every good work.
Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.”

Instead, the reason people are lost is not due to God, but due to people receiving not the love of the truth.

But notice something important in that verse I quote from. Paul says “that they might be saved.” Paul didn’t say they cannot be saved, or they cannot choose to be saved, or they were decreed to be lost. He said “that they might be saved”. This shows salvation was/is genuinely able to be received for those who love the truth.

And because God does not change, the OT confirms the same principle as the NT: foreknowledge does not set in stone one’s fate. God warns, humans respond, and the outcome is conditional. Ezekiel 18 and Jeremiah 18 show this clearly.
 
Yea I get what you mean but I just don’t think it’s about the attendance thing. Let’s look at this scenario:

John 1 has a job where he works every weekend and is never able to attend a local congregation but he shares the gospel with all of the people he comes in contact with on the road while working. He has a strong faith and a strong prayer life.

John 2 attends his local congregation every Sunday and is an elder and worship leader. Although for the other 6 days of the week he may pray once or twice and spends most of his time watching football and not really thinking about the Lord.

Which one is doing more for the church?

Obviously the first John is doing more, but the local congregation (that is a biblical church) is where the Holy Spirit will do a particular work as the Comforter.

The local church is 'the pillar and ground of the truth'. Thats where the real solid teaching from the Word is meant to be from.

The pastor of that church will have particular guidance for that congregation from God, that someone who does not meet with them will miss.

If someone doesn't attend church..a biblical church..they miss that special presence.

John 1 would be in the believer but not really faithful camp. If they also shared their faith etc..they would be in a better state than John 2.
 
Every word spoken by God was merely the preparation for the gospel (the good news).

1 Corinthians 1:23
But we preach Christ crucified, to Jews a stumbling block and to Gentiles foolishness.

Corinthians 2:2
For I determined to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ, and Him crucified.

What is so difficult to grasp?
Ok ok.... you are still growing. Good!
 
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Because God's divine and unconditional love for humanity was not the underlying
feature, in your simplistic, philosophical explanation. I just ignored your post and
simply explained our domain. Our domain is not trying to understand how God
executes His will towards humanity. Rather understanding the full revelation of
Jesus Christ is more to the point.

We don't chatter about things that no one has any hope of understanding.

God is infinitely powerful and what does that mean, Genez?

God knows everything in eternity so what does that mean?

Is everything set in stone?

Impossible questions to answer.

The Lord's ways are far beyond our comprehension and that's His domain not mine.

We are all on different levels of spiritual growth.
Maybe, I pray, someday you will understand why I said what I did.
 
But how can the outcome be changed (I believe it can be) if the Lord already knows the outcome? I’m not a Calvinist, and am not looking to argue, it’s a sincere question I have.
Knowing something will happen is not the same as causing it to happen. In one way, you are correct. However, being fatalistic about life is a recipe for disaster. It makes praying pointless, for example. It leads to passivity and a sense of futility. My advice is to live as if your decisions make all the difference. Certainly God judges us on that basis.
 
You may be overdoing it when your reading certain verses.

The gospel (1 Corinthians 15:1-6) is a simple message and that is what saves us.

It had to be kept simple otherwise boneheads will generate divisions within the church.

The good news also had to implemented by grace and beyond our ability to manipulate it.

The N.T is a simple text containing a number of simple letters about the good news.

The N.T is not a philosophical discourse.
If the gospel message was as simple as you suggest it is, why are there between 45,000 - 47,000 Christian Denominations. I just checked the latest stats and this is what I found.

There are an estimated 45,000 to 47,000 Christian denominations worldwide, each with its own specific interpretations of the New Testament. This large number is due to historical schisms, cultural differences, and varying theological approaches to biblical interpretation.

The sad reality is that the New Testament and the gospel message are extremely difficult to interpret and understand.

The Bible confirms this in verses such as;

1 Corinthians 2:14 "But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned".

Romans 8:7-8 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

Ephesians 4:18 having their understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God, because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart;

2 Corinthians 4:4 whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them

John 3:3 .Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.