The Ten Commandments are the Covenant, did you know?

[Beckworth]

The Bible does present the Ten Commandments as the covenant itself. In Exodus 34:28, it is written:

"So he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he neither ate bread nor drank water. And He wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments."

"So He declared to you His covenant which He commanded you to perform, the Ten Commandments; and He wrote them on two tablets of stone (Deuteronomy 4:13, NKJV)

This clearly states that the Ten Commandments are the covenant. When we look at Jeremiah 31:31-33, we see God speaking of a new covenant, but notice what He says:

"Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the Lord.
But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people."

This passage does not say the law itself would change. Instead, it tells us that the ten commandments that are the covenant instead of being written on stone tablets, would be written in our hearts and minds. That means the law remains the same, but its place changes, from external tablets to internal conviction. This is why we see in the Gospels of John, Matthew, Luke and Mark, Jesus teaching the commandments and magnifying them.

Now, let's connect this with the Ark of the Covenant. In Deuteronomy 10:1-5, God commanded Moses to place the two tablets of the Ten Commandments inside the Ark:


"At that time the Lord said to me, ‘Hew for yourself two tablets of stone like the first, and come up to Me on the mountain, and make yourself an ark of wood... Then I turned and came down from the mountain, and put the tablets in the ark which I had made; and there they are, just as the Lord commanded me.’"

This shows the special place of the Ten Commandments, inside the Ark, symbolizing their central role in the covenant. But what about the rest of the law? In Deuteronomy 31:24-26, Moses wrote the book of the law and placed it beside the Ark:


"So it was, when Moses had completed writing the words of this law in a book, when they were finished, that Moses commanded the Levites, who bore the ark of the covenant of the Lord, saying: ‘Take this Book of the Law, and put it beside the ark of the covenant of the Lord your God, that it may be there as a witness against you.’”

This distinction is important. The Ten Commandments being described clearly as the Covenant were placed inside the Ark of the Covenant, showing their eternal, unchanging nature as the foundation of the covenant. The rest of the law was placed beside the Ark, acting as a witness.

Now, when Jeremiah speaks of the law being written in our hearts, he is speaking of the same law, the Ten Commandments. The "new" part of the covenant is not that the law changes but that God Himself ensures it is within us, guiding us from within rather than being an external set of rules. This aligns perfectly with how Jesus upheld and fulfilled the law, always pointing back to love for God and neighbor as the foundation of obedience (Matthew 22:36-40).

So, the New Covenant is not about replacing the Ten Commandments but about making them part of who we are.

Blessings

The covenant that God made in Exodus 34, including the 10 commandments, was made ONLY with the Jewish nation. It was not a covenant with the gentiles. When Moses is speaking in Deuteronomy 4:13, who was he talking to? He said, “ He declared to YOU His covenant…” who is the YOU to whom God declared the covenant? He was talking to the Nation of Jews. He address “Israel” in the first verse of chapter 4, “Oh ISRAEL listen…” and in chapter 5, “ Moses called all ISRAEL and said to THEM, ‘Hear oh ISRAEL the statutes and judgements which I speak in your hearing today…”. Then notice what he says in verse 2;
“THE LORD OUR GOD MADE A COVENANT WITH US ( Israel) IN HOREB. THE LORD DID NOT MAKE THIS COVENANT WITH OUR FATHERS, BUT WITH US, THOSE WHO ARE HERE TODAY, ALL OF US WHO ARE ALIVE.”

I agree that the 10 commandments are part of that covenant that He made with the Jews. There is abundant evidence of that. What most people do not understand is that He only made it with the Jewish nation and not all people everywhere. The Jews were God’s chosen people. If God made this covenant with ALL nations of people , then how does that make them “special”, chosen? They would be no different than any one else. Deuteronomy 4:5-6, Moses makes the argument that it is this very covenant that God makes with them that will cause all of the OTHER nations to say, “Surely this nation is a wise and understanding people.” The Jews were the only ones who had God’s covenant. It was between them and God.

You might wonder why this is significant. It’s significant because gentiles were never part of this covenant. It was not their covenant. It did not govern them. Some of God’s laws concerning morality have been present since the beginning of time. Murder, stealing abd other laws of morality were in place and taught by godly men long before Exodus 20. So some gentiles practiced morality—not because of the 10 commandments but because it was a universal law. From the beginning.

An Old Testament story in 1 Samuel 4-6 illustrates the fact that the laws of the covenant did not apply to the gentiles ( unless they were proselytes.). The Philistines ( gentiles) had captured the Ark of God. God had commanded the Jews to not only not touch the ark but it had to be carried in such a way that no one ever touched it. It also was covered with a cloth; they were not to look into it. That was God’s law to the Jews. It was part of the covenant made in Mount Horeb. But the Philistines not only touched it and carried it from one city to another, and finally setting it on a cart, they also put offerings in it ( beside the chest) and they were not killed for touching it. That law was not given to them. It was a law for the Jews. When the ark got back to Israel, the people looked into the ark and God struck 50,000 of them dead—because they were told not to look into it or touch it. The Philistines were plagued when they had the ark because it was God’s ark—it did not belong to them and they had taken it, but He did not strike them dead for touching it. Why? The covenant that God made in Horeb with the nation of Israel was only for the Jews. It did not apply to the gentiles.

When Jesus came He brought that “New” covenant that Jeremiah 31:31 spoke of. In fact Hebrews 8 tells us very plainly that the New Testament is that “New” covenant that Jeremiah prophesied would come. He even quotes the exact prophecy of Jeremiah. Hebrews 7 says that God “CHANGED THE LAW.” The purpose of tge new law of Christ was to UNITE all people—not divide them. The old covenant given to the Jews divided Jews and gentiles. The new covenant “unites them, for we are all under the same law now—the law of Jesus Christ. Jesus says there is neither Jew nor Greek..,we are all one in Christ.

And the 10 commandments? All but one of them is incorporated into the new covenant. They are not written down in a list, but they are all in there except fir one—remember the 7 th day to keep it holy. That was strictly for the Jews. The new covenant has a new day to keep; it’s the day that our lord was raised from the dead, the day His Church began— the first day of the week. Acts 20:7, 1 Corinthians 16:1-2, Revelation 1.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

The covenant that God made in Exodus 34, including the 10 commandments, was made ONLY with the Jewish nation. It was not a covenant with the gentiles. When Moses is speaking in Deuteronomy 4:13, who was he talking to? He said, “ He declared to YOU His covenant…” who is the YOU to whom God declared the covenant? He was talking to the Nation of Jews. He address “Israel” in the first verse of chapter 4, “Oh ISRAEL listen…” and in chapter 5, “ Moses called all ISRAEL and said to THEM, ‘Hear oh ISRAEL the statutes and judgements which I speak in your hearing today…”. Then notice what he says in verse 2;
“THE LORD OUR GOD MADE A COVENANT WITH US ( Israel) IN HOREB. THE LORD DID NOT MAKE THIS COVENANT WITH OUR FATHERS, BUT WITH US, THOSE WHO ARE HERE TODAY, ALL OF US WHO ARE ALIVE.”

I agree that the 10 commandments are part of that covenant that He made with the Jews. There is abundant evidence of that. What most people do not understand is that He only made it with the Jewish nation and not all people everywhere. The Jews were God’s chosen people. If God made this covenant with ALL nations of people , then how does that make them “special”, chosen? They would be no different than any one else. Deuteronomy 4:5-6, Moses makes the argument that it is this very covenant that God makes with them that will cause all of the OTHER nations to say, “Surely this nation is a wise and understanding people.” The Jews were the only ones who had God’s covenant. It was between them and God.

You might wonder why this is significant. It’s significant because gentiles were never part of this covenant. It was not their covenant. It did not govern them. Some of God’s laws concerning morality have been present since the beginning of time. Murder, stealing abd other laws of morality were in place and taught by godly men long before Exodus 20. So some gentiles practiced morality—not because of the 10 commandments but because it was a universal law. From the beginning.

An Old Testament story in 1 Samuel 4-6 illustrates the fact that the laws of the covenant did not apply to the gentiles ( unless they were proselytes.). The Philistines ( gentiles) had captured the Ark of God. God had commanded the Jews to not only not touch the ark but it had to be carried in such a way that no one ever touched it. It also was covered with a cloth; they were not to look into it. That was God’s law to the Jews. It was part of the covenant made in Mount Horeb. But the Philistines not only touched it and carried it from one city to another, and finally setting it on a cart, they also put offerings in it ( beside the chest) and they were not killed for touching it. That law was not given to them. It was a law for the Jews. When the ark got back to Israel, the people looked into the ark and God struck 50,000 of them dead—because they were told not to look into it or touch it. The Philistines were plagued when they had the ark because it was God’s ark—it did not belong to them and they had taken it, but He did not strike them dead for touching it. Why? The covenant that God made in Horeb with the nation of Israel was only for the Jews. It did not apply to the gentiles.

When Jesus came He brought that “New” covenant that Jeremiah 31:31 spoke of. In fact Hebrews 8 tells us very plainly that the New Testament is that “New” covenant that Jeremiah prophesied would come. He even quotes the exact prophecy of Jeremiah. Hebrews 7 says that God “CHANGED THE LAW.” The purpose of tge new law of Christ was to UNITE all people—not divide them. The old covenant given to the Jews divided Jews and gentiles. The new covenant “unites them, for we are all under the same law now—the law of Jesus Christ. Jesus says there is neither Jew nor Greek..,we are all one in Christ.

And the 10 commandments? All but one of them is incorporated into the new covenant. They are not written down in a list, but they are all in there except fir one—remember the 7 th day to keep it holy. That was strictly for the Jews. The new covenant has a new day to keep; it’s the day that our lord was raised from the dead, the day His Church began— the first day of the week. Acts 20:7, 1 Corinthians 16:1-2, Revelation 1.

God never made a covenant with the Gentiles, only with Israel. We are grafted into the promises given through Abraham's lineage such as Rev22:14 through faith Gal3:26-29

The New Covenant is with Israel too, and still has God's laws which only He can define them and He did plainly, both written and spoken by God Exo31:18 Exo 20:6 Exo20:1-17 Deut4:13 and plainly reveals how we are to love God and our fellow man. Why God's name is in the first 4 commandments, no one else.

Jer 31: 33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their [i]hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

Is the same law that Israel was breaking and Jeremiah quotes all of the Ten Commandments.

Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

They could not keep the law written on stone, so God made a new covenant, established on better promises of what He will do, not changing the words as promised.


Psa 89:34 My covenant I will not break,
Nor alter the word that has gone out of My lips.

God said He would have never made another agreement/covenant had it not been for the people breaking it, so His words were never the issue.

Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second. 8 Because finding fault with them, He says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah

The issue was not with the laws, God's laws written by the Holy Spirit are perfect Psa19:7, holy, just and good Rom7:12. The issue was with the promises. The people promised to keep God's covenant Exo19:8 but they did not continue in. Why God made a new covenant established on better promises Heb8:6 of what He will do Heb8:10, we still have to cooperate. It still has God's laws but now placed in the NC believers heart and mind. Heb8:10 The law of God is just that God's laws- that He did not leave up to man to write, He personally did and regardless what covenant He makes with man it doesn't change what God's laws are. Only God can define His law, not man because man is not God.

God does not change, there will never be a time its okay to break the least of these commandments Mat5:19-30 but God gives us a better way to obey Him if one allows. John14:15-18

 

[SabbathBlessing]

And the 10 commandments? All but one of them is incorporated into the new covenant. They are not written down in a list, but they are all in there except fir one—remember the 7 th day to keep it holy. That was strictly for the Jews. The new covenant has a new day to keep; it’s the day that our lord was raised from the dead, the day His Church began— the first day of the week. Acts 20:7, 1 Corinthians 16:1-2, Revelation 1.

So the one commandment that God said Remember, we can forget, so basically the opposite of what God said. Jesus said the Sabbath was made for man, not Jews. When man was made Gen1:26 there was just man and God, no Jews, right before the first Sabbath Exo20:11 Gen2:1-3 man was made in the image and likeness of God to follow Him, not do something different. The Sabbath is for everyone who wants to join themselves to Him and serve Him Isa56:6

Acts 20:1 is a one time meeting, and tells us why, they came together Saturday evening after sunset to have a meal because Paul was leaving in the morning for a long mission trip, it says nothing about it changing one of God's commandments 1 Cor 16:1-2 is about a one time offering that Paul would come by to get to help the needy, nothing about changing the Sabbath. Rev 1:10 does not say anything that the Lords Day is day one, one would have to add that in the Text, what we are warned about and than take away what God said, something else we were warned about.

In the council for Gentiles keeping every Sabbath was still part of it, in every city for many generations

Acts 15:21 For Moses has had throughout many generations those who preach him in every city, being read in the synagogues every Sabbath.”

God could not have been so clear on what is the Lords day, the only day in the entire Bible God blessed and sanctified and called it the Holy day of the Lord 58:13 meaning there is no other, just sadly a counterfeit as we were warned Dan7:25


the seventh day is Sabbath of the LORD your God”
Exodus 20:10

The Son of Man is Lord also of the Sabbath.” (not the first day)
Mark 2:28

Isa 58:13 “If you turn away your foot from the Sabbath,
From doing your pleasure on My holy day,
And call the Sabbath a delight,
The holy day of the Lord honorable,

 

[GWH]

Jesus taught a lot more than this. The Ten Commandments are the law of God, not the law of Moses. Moses did not even take credit for them in any way Exo32:16 and he was there.

Jesus used interchangeably the commandments of God with the Word of God
Jesus speaking....

Mat 15:3 And He answered and said to them, “Why do you yourselves also break the commandment of God for the sake of your tradition? 4 For God said, ‘Honor your father and mother,’ From the Ten Commandments
Mat 15:6 he is not to honor his father or mother.’ And by this you have invalidated the word of God for the sake of your tradition.

Mat 7:13 And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men
Which commandment?
‘Honor your father and your mother’ (from the Ten Exo20:12 Deut4:13)
13 making the word of God of no effect through your tradition which you have handed down. And many such things you do.”

Exo 20:1 And God spoke all these words, saying…”

These “words” are the Ten Commandments.

The commandments of God Jesus used interchangeably with the Word of God. Wow, can you imagine making the word of God of no effect though traditions of man. That's pretty serious in my mind. Jesus said it was
"in vain they worship Me, Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men". The apostles spoke of this as well Col2:8

“These words the LORD spoke… and He added no more.
And He wrote them on two tablets of stone." Deut5:22
The Ten Commandments are explicitly called “the words” God spoke, and nothing else was added.
The Hebrew phrase is עֲשֶׂרֶת הַדְּבָרִים — Aseret haDvarim
Meaning: The Ten Words.
The Ten Commandments is the Ten Words of God.

Can the Testimony of God be edited by anyone?

Mat 25:35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.

Why again used interchangeably with the Ten Commandments, the Law of God.

Mat5:18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.
Luke 16:17 It is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than for one tittle of the law to fail.

Because...
Psa 119:89 Forever, O LORD, Your word is settled in heaven. Right where His ark and Testimony is Rev 11:19 Rev15:5 and includes the 4th commandment unedited as we see it continuing for eternity Isa66:22-23

Why again His word is used interchangeable with His Law in Judgement

John 12:48 He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him—the word that I have spoken (His Testimony Exo31:18) will judge him in the last day.

James 2:11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty (Ten Commandments- the He who said in Exo20:1-17- Gods Testimony Exo31:18)

Once God tells us what things mean, they stay the same throughout the Bible, because there is no one above God. The entire Bible is about the testimony of God John5:39 through His prophets and disciples. Who has the greatest testimony of all- God's Exo31:18 why it sits under His mercy seat in heaven Ev15:5 Rev11:19 unedited because He is God and we are called to join ourselves to Him and be His servant Isa56:6

The Ten Commandments cannot be edited- God promised He would not alter His words Psa89:34 Deut4:13 not a jot or tittle Mat5:18-19 because no church, no person is above God. Sadly His Law was edited just as predicted that most follow Dan7:25 but we are living in the last days and God is calling us back Rev18:4 to worship our Creator Rev14:7 Exo20:11 and worship Jesus relates to obedience. Staying faithful/obedient to God through love and faith is how we remain in Him John15:10 Rev14:12 and reconcile Rev22:14

Re "Can the Testimony of God be edited by anyone?": It certainly can and that is exactly what you do.
When quoting Jesus in Matthew, you omit Matt. 22:37-40 and fail to note that Jesus never commanded the Sabbath law
as he did the command to honor parents.
And when citing from Exodus 20 you omit Exo. 21:1-23:19;
When citing Deuteronomy 5 you omit Deut. 5:23-33 and 8:1-14, 11:1-32, 12:1-32, 13:1-18, 14:1-29, 15:1-23, 16:1-21, 17:1-20, etc.
You have a Readers' Digest Version of the Bible.

 

[Inquisitor]

Again you quoted Paul to argue against the very words of Jesus. But Jesus is the One who gives eternal life, and Jesus is the One who will judge all people. He never said we are saved the moment we believe something in our mind. He never said receiving the Spirit is a guaranteed ticket to heaven. He never taught a salvation without obedience, without repentance, or without doing the Father’s will.
Jesus said plainly that believing him truly means following Him, its not an “obstacle course,” it is simply real faith. Real faith hears His voice and obeys Him. Fake faith uses easy sayings but ignores His commands.
Jesus Himself warned:
“Why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do the things which I say?” (Luke 6:46 NKJV)
Jesus said only those who do the will of the Father will enter the Kingdom (Matthew 7:21).
Jesus said if you want to enter life, keep the commandments (Matthew 19:17).
Jesus said His sheep hear His voice and follow Him (John 10:27).
Jesus said if you love Him, you keep His word (John 14:23).
Jesus said the one who endures to the end will be saved (Matthew 24:13).
Jesus said every tree is known by its fruit (Matthew 7:17-20).
None of this matches your teaching.

You say “believing alone saves.”
James, the brother of Jesus, says demons also believe and tremble (James 2:19). That kind of belief saves no one.
You say “enduring does not save you.”
Jesus says the one who endures to the end will be saved (Matthew 24:13). I will trust Jesus.
You say “as soon as you have the Spirit, you are saved.”
Jesus says the Spirit is given to those who obey God (Acts 5:32), not to those who speak easy words.
You say “I am in conflict with the gospel.”
But the only gospel Jesus preached was the Kingdom of God, repentance, keeping God’s word, and following Him with all your heart.
You say “believing alone saves.”
Jesus says believing means listening to Him and doing what He says.
If someone truly believes in Christ, they will follow Him and obey Him, because Jesus said:
“My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.” (John 10:27 NKJV)
This is salvation according to Jesus Himself.

So you are saying that salvation is not a free gift given to those that believe the gospel?

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

In the council for Gentiles keeping every Sabbath was still part of it, in every city for many generations

That was only because they were attending synagogues on Saturdays at that time. When Christians got kicked out of the synagogues they didn't have to meet on that day.

 

[Inquisitor]

You quoted many verses from John, but you skipped the parts Jesus spoke that destroy your claim. You read half of Jesus’ words and ignore the rest. That is why your doctrine collapses.
Yes, Jesus said to believe. But Jesus Himself tells you what real belief looks like. It is not repeating words. It is not a one-time moment. It is not automatic salvation. Jesus never taught that.
Look carefully at your own list:
John 3:36
“He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life.”
You read the first half and threw away the second. Jesus says belief without obedience will not see life. That is Jesus speaking, not me.
John 1:12
“To those who received Him, He gave the right to become children of God.”
The right to become. Not an instant guarantee. Becoming a child of God is a life of following Him, not an automatic stamp.
John 3:18
“He who believes… is not judged.”
Yes, but Jesus also says many will call Him “Lord” and still be rejected because they did not do the Father’s will (Matthew 7:21). The same Jesus spoke both verses. Real belief is shown by doing what He says.
John 5:24
“He who hears My word and believes Him who sent Me…”
You cannot believe Him while ignoring His teachings. Jesus says hearing and believing must go together. He never said belief is separate from obedience.
John 6:29
“This is the work of God, that you believe…”
And just a few verses later Jesus says those who follow Him must eat His flesh and drink His blood, meaning to take in His life and obey His word. Belief is not empty words. It is receiving Him fully and living by Him.
John 8:31
“If you continue in My word, you are My disciples indeed.”
Not if you speak a sentence. Not if you hold a doctrine.
If you continue in His word.
John 10:27
“My sheep hear My voice, and they follow Me.”
Not “they believe once.”
“They follow Me.”
John 12:48
“My word will judge him on the last day.”
You will be judged by the words you skip.
John 14:21
“He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me.”
This is Jesus’ definition of belief.
John 15:2
“Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away.”
A branch “in Him” can still be removed. That alone destroys your entire doctrine.
You keep saying Paul explains the gospel “precisely.”
That only proves the problem.
You run to Paul because Jesus’ own words contradict you at every turn.
If your gospel cannot stand on Jesus alone, then you are not preaching His gospel.
Jesus said:
“Why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do the things which I say?” (Luke 6:46)
The words of Jesus stand.
The words of Jesus judge.
The words of Jesus define belief.
And according to Jesus:
Real belief obeys.
Real belief follows.
Real belief continues.
Real belief bears fruit.
Real belief endures to the end.
Anything less is not the gospel of Christ, no matter how many times you quote Him halfway.

You are fatally confused and you were taught an alternate gospel.

Salvation is a free gift and salvation has been a free gift for over 2,000 years.

Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

So Paul was a heretic?

Your gospel is Jesus plus strict obedience to the (10)commandments for salvation.

The gospel was never a free gift given to those that believe?

Is salvation a free gift or not?

 

[mailmandan]

Again you quoted Paul to argue against the very words of Jesus. But Jesus is the One who gives eternal life, and Jesus is the One who will judge all people. He never said we are saved the moment we believe something in our mind.

Jesus made it clear that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life. (John 3:15,16,18; 6:40,47; 11:25,26). This believing is not merely in our mind but also involves the heart. (Romans 10:8-10)

He never said receiving the Spirit is a guaranteed ticket to heaven.

Ephesians 1:13 - In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

He never taught a salvation without obedience, without repentance, or without doing the Father’s will.

Obedience which "follows" saving faith in Christ is the fruit of salvation but not the root of it. (Matthew 7:17-20; 13:23; Ephesians 2:8-10)

Jesus said plainly that believing him truly means following Him, its not an “obstacle course,” it is simply real faith. Real faith hears His voice and obeys Him. Fake faith uses easy sayings but ignores His commands.

Believing in Him unto salvation means trusting in Him for salvation. Following Him after we have been saved through faith is faith in action. Real faith does result in obedience and fake faith involves lip service and fake obedience.

Jesus Himself warned:
“Why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do the things which I say?” (Luke 6:46 NKJV)

This includes legalists.

Jesus said only those who do the will of the Father will enter the Kingdom (Matthew 7:21).

John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

Jesus said if you want to enter life, keep the commandments (Matthew 19:17).

So, again we see you turning keeping the commandments (specifically the 10 commandments) into the means of obtaining salvation. This is what you mean by obedience/doing the things that Jesus says/doing the will of the Father. Your eisegesis culminates in salvation by works. I already previously covered Matthew 19:17 with you in post #109 from the linked thread below:

https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/the-way-of-salvation-and-eternal-life.221636/page-6

Jesus said His sheep hear His voice and follow Him (John 10:27).
Jesus said if you love Him, you keep His word (John 14:23).
Jesus said the one who endures to the end will be saved (Matthew 24:13).
Jesus said every tree is known by its fruit (Matthew 7:17-20).
None of this matches your teaching.

Works-salvationists typically confuse 'descriptive' passages of scripture with 'prescriptive' passages of scripture and the end result is salvation by works/works-righteousness.

You say “believing alone saves.”
James, the brother of Jesus, says demons also believe and tremble (James 2:19). That kind of belief saves no one.

In James 2:19, we see that the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God," but they do not believe in/have faith in/trust in Jesus Christ for salvation. In other words, the demons do not believe in the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31) and are not saved. Their trust and reliance are in Satan (and not in Jesus) as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works. There is a difference between mere "mental assent" belief (as the demons have) and saving belief in Christ, which the demons do not have, and only genuine believers do have.

You say “enduring does not save you.”
Jesus says the one who endures to the end will be saved (Matthew 24:13). I will trust Jesus.

Enduring to the end confirms that faith was firmly rooted and established to begin with. Hence, will be saved. You trust in self-preservation.

CONTINUED...

 

[mailmandan]

You say “as soon as you have the Spirit, you are saved.”

Are you saying otherwise?

Jesus says the Spirit is given to those who obey God (Acts 5:32), not to those who speak easy words.

Who obeys Him? The saved or the lost? Only believers have obeyed Him by choosing to believe the gospel (Romans 1:16) in order to become saved, and only believers obey Him after they have been saved through faith by practicing righteousness and not sin. (1 John 3:9,10) In either sense, only believers obey Him.

Unbelievers have not obeyed Him by refusing to believe the gospel (Romans 10:16) and without faith it's impossible to please God (Hebrews 11:6), so unbelievers do not obey Him no matter how much "so called" obedience that they attempt to conjure up from an unregenerate heart in a vain effort to receive salvation by works. (Matthew 7:22-23) So, in either sense, unbelievers do not obey Him.

You say “I am in conflict with the gospel.”
But the only gospel Jesus preached was the Kingdom of God, repentance, keeping God’s word, and following Him with all your heart.
You say “believing alone saves.”

The word "gospel" means "good news." Jesus preached the gospel of the kingdom to Israel. John the Baptist also preached the gospel of the kingdom, which was, "..Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." (Matthew 3:2)
Jesus Christ sent the twelve to preach only to Israel. Matthew 10:5 - These twelve Jesus sent out and commanded them, saying: “Do not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter a city of the Samaritans. 6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 7 And as you go, preach, saying, ‘The kingdom of heaven is at hand.’ The disciples were specifically told to go only to the people of Israel, and "Pre Cross" they were not yet preaching anything about the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ. This shows that before the cross, the more distinct element to the content of the gospel of the grace of God that Paul taught and came to him through a revelation of Jesus Christ (Galatians 1:11-12) was still a mystery.

Now Peter had no clue that Jesus Christ would be crucified, buried and resurrected, yet he did believe that Jesus was the Messiah. This is obvious when, only moments later, Peter rebukes Jesus Christ for saying he will be killed, and be raised again the third day" (Matthew 16:21). In verse 22, "..Peter took him and began to rebuke him, saying, “Far be it from You, Lord; this shall not happen to You!”

Before his death, Jesus told the twelve that he had to die and that he would rise on the third day. Looking back upon this passage we see this as Jesus speaking of an event that would change everything! However, it is unquestionable that the disciples were ignorant of its meaning.

“Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem...And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again. And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken. – Luke 18:31-34.Now that's strange if the further content of the gospel that came through a revelation of Jesus Christ to Paul and was a mystery prior to that has the exact same content as the gospel of the kingdom. *This is where we need to RIGHTLY DIVIDE THE WORD OF TRUTH.

After his crucifixion, instead of anxiously waiting his resurrection, the apostles were still ignorant, disheartened at the death of their redeemer, and did not even at first believe the testimony of his resurrection. (Mark 16:14, Luke 24:19-24) It was not until after his resurrection that Jesus appeared to the apostles and opened their understanding. (Luke 24:44-47)

I don't believe there are multiple gospels, yet through progressive revelation, there is a more distinct element to the content of the gospel which Paul received from Christ and is called "the mystery of the gospel." (see Ephesians 6:19 and compare with Colossians 1:26-27; 4:3) This new revelation is that the Gentiles are fellow heirs and fellow members of the body, and fellow partakers of the promise. (Ephesians 3:6) Such equality, Jew and Gentile united together in one body was previously unknown. The distinctive message of the church is that Jew and Gentile alike may believe the gospel and be united together into one body. (Ephesians 1:13; 1 Corinthians 12:13)

Jesus says believing means listening to Him and doing what He says.

You have redefined believing to include works. Roman Catholics make the same error.

If someone truly believes in Christ, they will follow Him and obey Him, because Jesus said:
“My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.” (John 10:27 NKJV)
This is salvation according to Jesus Himself.

Obedience/works is the fruit of salvation but not the root of it. Based on your EISEGESIS you are teaching a gospel of works salvation/works righteousness whether you realize it or not.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

Re "Can the Testimony of God be edited by anyone?": It certainly can and that is exactly what you do.
When quoting Jesus in Matthew, you omit Matt. 22:37-40 and fail to note that Jesus never commanded the Sabbath law
as he did the command to honor parents.
And when citing from Exodus 20 you omit Exo. 21:1-23:19;
When citing Deuteronomy 5 you omit Deut. 5:23-33 and 8:1-14, 11:1-32, 12:1-32, 13:1-18, 14:1-29, 15:1-23, 16:1-21, 17:1-20, etc.
You have a Readers' Digest Version of the Bible.

Non-responsive to the post you are replying to. And not even within the context.

For example the context of Deut 5:22 is about God adding to more to the Ten Commandments.

Deut 5:22 “These words the Lord spoke to all your assembly, in the mountain from the midst of the fire, the cloud, and the thick darkness, with a loud voice; and He added no more. And He wrote them on two tablets of stone and gave them to me.

Deut 4:13 So He declared to you His covenant which He commanded you to perform, the Ten Commandments; and He wrote them on two tablets of stone.


Deut 5:23-33 is about people being afraid of God's presence. It does not delete what God said in His own Words are His Word that He added no more to.

23 “So it was, when you heard the voice from the midst of the darkness, while the mountain was burning with fire, that you came near to me, all the heads of your tribes and your elders. 24 And you said: ‘Surely the Lord our God has shown us His glory and His greatness, and we have heard His voice from the midst of the fire. We have seen this day that God speaks with man; yet he still lives. 25 Now therefore, why should we die? For this great fire will consume us; if we hear the voice of the Lord our God anymore, then we shall die. 26 For who is there of all flesh who has heard the voice of the living God speaking from the midst of the fire, as we have, and lived? 27 You go near and hear all that the Lord our God may say, and tell us all that the Lord our God says to you, and we will hear and do it.’

In Matt. 22:37-40 never mentioned any of the first 4 commandments doesn't mean because God never mentioned each of them that we can now worship other gods, vain His holy name and start idol worship either. Jesus was quoting Deut6:5 when He said this and that was right after all of the Ten Commandments was repeated 40 years after God gave them before crossing over to their promise land to diligently keep, sadly many never made it due to the exact commandment you are claiming we can break and forget Eze20:15-16 that God said to Remember.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

That was only because they were attending synagogues on Saturdays at that time. When Christians got kicked out of the synagogues they didn't have to meet on that day.

I can't find this in the Text.

But it does say both Jews and Gentiles were keeping every Sabbath....

Acts 13: 42 [n]So when the Jews went out of the synagogue, the Gentiles begged that these words might be preached to them the next Sabbath.

If that is something that changed the apostles would have said so but instead....

44 On the next Sabbath almost the whole city came together to hear the word of God.

Acts 18:4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every Sabbath, and persuaded both Jews and Greeks.

Which is exactly what Jesus predicted Isa 56:6-7

God knows who His Sabbath was made for Mark2:27 because man can't bless or sanctify a day or themselves, God related that only to the seventh day Gen2:3 Exo 20:12 Eze20:12 Isa56:2 sadly like those who came before us, many rejected this too Eze20:15-16 we are told not to follow in their path of disobedience Heb4:11 but we are given free will.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

I can't find this in the Text.

It's not in the bible. You have to know the history of the time

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

But it does say both Jews and Gentiles were keeping every Sabbath....

Because gentile proselytes of the gate attended synagogue on Saturdays. That was the only place for them to learn of Christ at that time

 

[pinebeach]

But Jesus is the One who gives eternal life,

but only if you believe the commandments are the covenant

Jesus is the One who will judge all people

uh huh

Fake faith uses easy sayings but ignores His commands.

or, teaches 10 commandments are the covenant to the exclusion of anything Paul said, because you know, Paul.


My understanding of most of these Jesus + works types of posts reminds me of the big bad wolf gonna blow your house down
BUT my house has a sure foundation in Christ and ain't no wolf gonna blow that down

next

 

[SabbathBlessing]

Because gentile proselytes of the gate attended synagogue on Saturdays. That was the only place for them to learn of Christ at that time

I keep seeing your words, not the Text. They could learn about God on any day, especially with the so-called change of the day of worship, which we do not see anywhere in the Text, the Sabbath is more than learning about God, that's part of it, but its also one of God's finger-written commandments and God's people not just Jews keep them through love and faith. Rev14:12

This is what Jesus predicted and quoted from Mat 21:13


Isa 56:6 Also the sons of the foreigner
Who join themselves to the Lord, to serve Him,
And to love the name of the Lord, to be His servants—
Everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And holds fast My covenant—
7 Even them I will bring to My holy mountain,
And make them joyful in My house of prayer.
Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices
Will be accepted on My altar;
For My house shall be called a house of prayer for all nations.”

Which is exactly what we see happening in the NT


Acts 13: 42 [n]So when the Jews went out of the synagogue, the Gentiles begged that these words might be preached to them the next Sabbath.

44 On the next Sabbath almost the whole city came together to hear the word of God.

Acts 18:4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every Sabbath, and persuaded both Jews and Greeks.

Because God's people keep God's commandments and only God can tell us what they are, we do not tell God what they are, at least we shouldn't.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

I keep seeing your words, not the Text. Sure they could learn about God on any day, but the Sabbath is more than that it is one of God's finger-written commandments and God's people not just Jews keep them through love and faith. Rev14:12

They didn't have personal bibles back then. If you wanted to learn from scripture you went to a syngogue on Saturdays to hear the readings from expensive scrolls.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

They didn't have personal bibles back then. If you wanted to learn from scripture you went to a syngogue on Saturdays to hear the readings from expensive scrolls.

Agreed, both Jews and Gentiles, never changed to "day 1" as people keep saying which is not found in our Bibles. The apostles were building churches and Sabbath-keeping was kept every Sabbath just as Jesus indicated for all nations- everyone Isa56:6-7 This is all part of Sabbath-keeping Exo20:8-11 Isa58:13 Lev23:3 never made just for "Jews" but for mankind Mark2:27

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Agreed, both Jews and Gentiles, never changed to "day 1" as people keep saying which is not found in our Bibles. The apostles were building churches and Sabbath-keeping was kept every Sabbath just as Jesus indicated for all nations- everyone Isa56:6-7 This is all part of Sabbath-keeping Exo20:8-11 Isa58:13 Lev23:3 never made just for "Jews" but for mankind Mark2:27

After the gentiles were kicked out of synagogues they eventually changed from Saturday to Sunday

 

[rogerg]

The Ten Commandments cannot be edited- God promised He would not alter His words Psa89:34 Deut4:13 not a jot or tittle Mat5:18-19 because no church, no person is above God. Sadly His Law was edited just as predicted that most follow Dan7:25 but we are living in the last days and God is calling us back Rev18:4 to worship our Creator Rev14:7 Exo20:11 and worship Jesus relates to obedience. Staying faithful/obedient to God through love and faith is how we remain in Him John15:10 Rev14:12 and reconcile Rev22:14

The Old Covenant's Ten Commandments were replaced in/by Christ for those that God places under the New Covenant.

[2Co 3:14-15 KJV]
14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which [vail] is done away in Christ.
15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

The Old Covenant's Ten Commandments were replaced in/by Christ for those that God places under the New Covenant.

[2Co 3:14-15 KJV]
14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which [vail] is done away in Christ.
15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.

2COR3:3 tells us which law that was and where it went. Only God can define His laws Exo20:6 Deut4:13 Exo31:16, not man because we are not God. They belong to Him and He did not leave it up to man to write. His copy is in heaven.

Rev 15:5 5 After these things I looked, and [a]behold, the [b]temple of the tabernacle of the testimony in heaven was opened.

μαρτύριον martýrion, mar-too'-ree-on; neuter of a presumed derivative of G3144; something evidential, i.e. (genitive case) evidence given or (specially), the Decalogue (in the sacred Tabernacle):—to be testified, testimony, witness.

It’s God’s standard of Judgement regardless if we choose to accept or reject.

Rev 11:18-19
The nations were angry, and Your [h]wrath has come,
And the time of the dead, that they should be judged,
And that You should reward Your servants the prophets and the saints,
And those who fear Your name, small and great,
And should destroy those who destroy the earth.”
19 Then the temple of God was opened in heaven, and the ark of [i]His covenant was seen in His temple. And there were lightnings, noises, thunderings, an earthquake, and great hail.

James 2:11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty.