Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

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Guess you didn't really listen to what I said about the purpose of tongues. It was a warning to the Jews to accept their Messiah because they were about to go under the final stage of discipline. That occurred in 70AD when the Temple was destroyed. Why would God be talking in tongues to unbelieving Jews now? The discipline has been and gone. Tongues no longer has a purpose.

So you think God gives His word in vagaries? Isaiah was prophesying to Israel because they had departed from the word of God and he was warning them repent or be invaded.

The verses you quote prove nothing. No-one has argued tongues did not exist in the early Church. Go and learn why the gift was given. Paul tells us in 1Cor.14.
The verses I gave prove nothing? did you not notice how they use the word anyone and everyone? it is more accurate than the versesyou gave and not to mention the verse you gave where paul explains what tongues is for well it is valid it is a form of prayer and a very powerful one at that and yes in this way they are soeaking to God so I fail to see how that changes anything.

Tell me this then what scripture would convince you { If at all} that tongues if still for today?
 
This verse does not support free will. Both reformed and free will supporters agree that "all who believe will be saved."
No it does not support free will that is because free will is not valid one is a slave to sin until the father draws them to Christ
 
I can't work out the "without excuse" bit either. Men have every excuse under their doctrine. Adam got us into the mess ensuring we would have to sin. God refuses to do for them what He supposedly does for us. But it's all their fault?

The only excuses I see working are the ones they make for themselves by taking no responsibility for their own response while at the same time putting all the responsibility on the unsaved for their lack of response.
The super-determinists/Calvinists/Reformed don't know it, but their "excuses" and Satan's "excuses" are one and the same:

-no free will
-God made me this way
-its all God's fault
-God is not just
-God shows partiality

And a number of others.
 
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Yes indeed.

Yes the free willers have won the day. And yesterday. And tomorrow. And every other day besides.
The fact that people exercise their freedom to ask about free will proves we have it. The fact people exercise their freedom to argue about free will proves we have it, and the fact people exercise their freedom to choose not to believe in free will proves they have it.
 
He didn't watch hardly any.

I watched it, I am actually surprised you think it was a good sermon.

I was waiting for it and then it happened ... he used the words "effectual call." :rolleyes:

How so very Reformed of him.

Me wonders why you just dropped that link, certainly afforded you another opportunity to tell us how we do not understand your beliefs. ;)
 
The fact that people exercise their freedom to ask about free will proves we have it. The fact people exercise their freedom to argue about free will proves we have it, and the fact people exercise their freedom to choose not to believe in free will proves they have it.
Free will unto salvation is an entirely different matter that is what is being argued yes we have a will but free? we are either slaves to sin or slaves{willing slaves} to Christ
Total surrender means giving up our will so that the fathers may be done instead
 
people fit themselves for destruction.

We already dealt with this line, it does not support your theory, the destruction is in this life not the next.

You know I just read an very interesting article about how the "Reformed Fold" circle back around and employ the same argument again and again ... it is truly amazing how these keen observers have nailed it.
 
I watched it, I am actually surprised you think it was a good sermon.

I was waiting for it and then it happened ... he used the words "effectual call." :rolleyes:

How so very Reformed of him.

Me wonders why you just dropped that link, certainly afforded you another opportunity to tell us how we do not understand your beliefs. ;)
It was a sermon about the certainty of judgment for those who do not believe. It came straight from the text. You don't think judgment should be a topic of a sermon.
 
Free will unto salvation is an entirely different matter that is what is being argued yes we have a will but free? we are either slaves to sin or slaves{willing slaves} to Christ
Total surrender means giving up our will so that the fathers may be done instead
You are arguing for whether your will is free, but how is that possible if we do not have the freedom to choose to wonder that?
 
Paul preached in Acts and Luke wrote it down that God created man with the ability to seek God.

In Romans Paul wrote that unfortunately no man seeks God.

This doesn't mean man still cannot seek God, it just means no man has ever tried to seek God and God expresses this fact.

But just because we don't seek God doesn't remove from the fact that we can and have the ability to seek God.

That's actually the best definition of Free Will throughout the entire Bible.
 
We already dealt with this line, it does not support your theory, the destruction is in this life not the next.

You know I just read an very interesting article about how the "Reformed Fold" circle back around and employ the same argument again and again ... it is truly amazing how these keen observers have nailed it.
Of course the same arguments come around. You think we haven't tired of your same old tripe. And the destruction in Romans 9 is concerning eternal judgment.
 
You are arguing for whether your will is free, but how is that possible if we do not have the freedom to choose to wonder that?
Because the freedom to wonder is not a will it is a thought process a will is the acting on such process
 
Because the freedom to wonder is not a will it is a thought process a will is the acting on such process
But we are using our freedom to wonder about our will being free. We are freely wondering by our will. If our will is not free, then how could we wonder freely about something that’s not?
 
It's amazing that people think exercising volition is the same as free will.
Canned Calvinist Biblically illiterate double talk typically comes from people who could care less about what is actually IN the Bible.

Lev 1:3 - If his offering be a burnt sacrifice of the herd, let him offer a male without blemish: he shall offer it of his own voluntary will at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation before the LORD.

[Lev 22:18, 21, 23 KJV] 18 Speak unto Aaron, and to his sons, and unto all the children of Israel, and say unto them, Whatsoever [he be] of the house of Israel, or of the strangers in Israel, that will offer his oblation for all his vows, and for all his freewill offerings, which they will offer unto the LORD for a burnt offering; ... 21 And whosoever offereth a sacrifice of peace offerings unto the LORD to accomplish [his] vow, or a freewill offering in beeves or sheep, it shall be perfect to be accepted; there shall be no blemish therein. ... 23 Either a bullock or a lamb that hath any thing superfluous or lacking in his parts, that mayest thou offer [for] a freewill offering; but for a vow it shall not be accepted.

[Lev 23:38 KJV] 38 Beside the sabbaths of the LORD, and beside your gifts, and beside all your vows, and beside all your freewill offerings, which ye give unto the LORD.

[Num 15:3 KJV] 3 And will make an offering by fire unto the LORD, a burnt offering, or a sacrifice in performing a vow, or in a freewill offering, or in your solemn feasts, to make a sweet savour unto the LORD, of the herd, or of the flock:

[Num 29:39 KJV] 39 These [things] ye shall do unto the LORD in your set feasts, beside your vows, and your freewill offerings, for your burnt offerings, and for your meat offerings, and for your drink offerings, and for your peace offerings.

[Deu 12:6, 17 KJV] 6 And thither ye shall bring your burnt offerings, and your sacrifices, and your tithes, and heave offerings of your hand, and your vows, and your freewill offerings, and the firstlings of your herds and of your flocks: ... 17 Thou mayest not eat within thy gates the tithe of thy corn, or of thy wine, or of thy oil, or the firstlings of thy herds or of thy flock, nor any of thy vows which thou vowest, nor thy freewill offerings, or heave offering of thine hand:

[Deu 16:10 KJV] 10 And thou shalt keep the feast of weeks unto the LORD thy God with a tribute of a freewill offering of thine hand, which thou shalt give [unto the LORD thy God], according as the LORD thy God hath blessed thee:
[Deu 23:23 KJV] 23 That which is gone out of thy lips thou shalt keep and perform; [even] a freewill offering, according as thou hast vowed unto the LORD thy God, which thou hast promised with thy mouth.

[2Ch 31:14 KJV] 14 And Kore the son of Imnah the Levite, the porter toward the east, [was] over the freewill offerings of God, to distribute the oblations of the LORD, and the most holy things.

[Ezr 1:4 KJV] 4 And whosoever remaineth in any place where he sojourneth, let the men of his place help him with silver, and with gold, and with goods, and with beasts, beside the freewill offering for the house of God that [is] in Jerusalem.

[Ezr 3:5 KJV] 5 And afterward [offered] the continual burnt offering, both of the new moons, and of all the set feasts of the LORD that were consecrated, and of every one that willingly offered a freewill offering unto the LORD.

[Ezr 7:13, 16 KJV] 13 I make a decree, that all they of the people of Israel, and [of] his priests and Levites, in my realm, which are minded of their own freewill to go up to Jerusalem, go with thee. ... 16 And all the silver and gold that thou canst find in all the province of Babylon, with the freewill offering of the people, and of the priests, offering willingly for the house of their God which [is] in Jerusalem:

[Ezr 8:28 KJV] 28 And I said unto them, Ye [are] holy unto the LORD; the vessels [are] holy also; and the silver and the gold [are] a freewill offering unto the LORD God of your fathers.

[Psa 119:108 KJV] 108 Accept, I beseech thee, the freewill offerings of my mouth, O LORD, and teach me thy judgments.
 
Canned Calvinist Biblically illiterate double talk typically comes from people who could care less about what is actually IN the Bible.

Lev 1:3 - If his offering be a burnt sacrifice of the herd, let him offer a male without blemish: he shall offer it of his own voluntary will at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation before the LORD.

[Lev 22:18, 21, 23 KJV] 18 Speak unto Aaron, and to his sons, and unto all the children of Israel, and say unto them, Whatsoever [he be] of the house of Israel, or of the strangers in Israel, that will offer his oblation for all his vows, and for all his freewill offerings, which they will offer unto the LORD for a burnt offering; ... 21 And whosoever offereth a sacrifice of peace offerings unto the LORD to accomplish [his] vow, or a freewill offering in beeves or sheep, it shall be perfect to be accepted; there shall be no blemish therein. ... 23 Either a bullock or a lamb that hath any thing superfluous or lacking in his parts, that mayest thou offer [for] a freewill offering; but for a vow it shall not be accepted.

[Lev 23:38 KJV] 38 Beside the sabbaths of the LORD, and beside your gifts, and beside all your vows, and beside all your freewill offerings, which ye give unto the LORD.

[Num 15:3 KJV] 3 And will make an offering by fire unto the LORD, a burnt offering, or a sacrifice in performing a vow, or in a freewill offering, or in your solemn feasts, to make a sweet savour unto the LORD, of the herd, or of the flock:

[Num 29:39 KJV] 39 These [things] ye shall do unto the LORD in your set feasts, beside your vows, and your freewill offerings, for your burnt offerings, and for your meat offerings, and for your drink offerings, and for your peace offerings.

[Deu 12:6, 17 KJV] 6 And thither ye shall bring your burnt offerings, and your sacrifices, and your tithes, and heave offerings of your hand, and your vows, and your freewill offerings, and the firstlings of your herds and of your flocks: ... 17 Thou mayest not eat within thy gates the tithe of thy corn, or of thy wine, or of thy oil, or the firstlings of thy herds or of thy flock, nor any of thy vows which thou vowest, nor thy freewill offerings, or heave offering of thine hand:

[Deu 16:10 KJV] 10 And thou shalt keep the feast of weeks unto the LORD thy God with a tribute of a freewill offering of thine hand, which thou shalt give [unto the LORD thy God], according as the LORD thy God hath blessed thee:
[Deu 23:23 KJV] 23 That which is gone out of thy lips thou shalt keep and perform; [even] a freewill offering, according as thou hast vowed unto the LORD thy God, which thou hast promised with thy mouth.

[2Ch 31:14 KJV] 14 And Kore the son of Imnah the Levite, the porter toward the east, [was] over the freewill offerings of God, to distribute the oblations of the LORD, and the most holy things.

[Ezr 1:4 KJV] 4 And whosoever remaineth in any place where he sojourneth, let the men of his place help him with silver, and with gold, and with goods, and with beasts, beside the freewill offering for the house of God that [is] in Jerusalem.

[Ezr 3:5 KJV] 5 And afterward [offered] the continual burnt offering, both of the new moons, and of all the set feasts of the LORD that were consecrated, and of every one that willingly offered a freewill offering unto the LORD.

[Ezr 7:13, 16 KJV] 13 I make a decree, that all they of the people of Israel, and [of] his priests and Levites, in my realm, which are minded of their own freewill to go up to Jerusalem, go with thee. ... 16 And all the silver and gold that thou canst find in all the province of Babylon, with the freewill offering of the people, and of the priests, offering willingly for the house of their God which [is] in Jerusalem:

[Ezr 8:28 KJV] 28 And I said unto them, Ye [are] holy unto the LORD; the vessels [are] holy also; and the silver and the gold [are] a freewill offering unto the LORD God of your fathers.

[Psa 119:108 KJV] 108 Accept, I beseech thee, the freewill offerings of my mouth, O LORD, and teach me thy judgments.
They will say that’s not about salvation
 
But we are using our freedom to wonder about our will being free. We are freely wondering by our will. If our will is not free, then how could we wonder freely about something that’s not?
Let me ask you this when you became saved did you surrender completely to Christ?
 
I watched it, I am actually surprised you think it was a good sermon.

I was waiting for it and then it happened ... he used the words "effectual call." :rolleyes:

How so very Reformed of him.

Me wonders why you just dropped that link, certainly afforded you another opportunity to tell us how we do not understand your beliefs. ;)
"effectual call."

And it's all downhill from there.
Looks like he tried to slither in the door and met up with the bouncer lol :sneaky: