Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Blain]

you do have some good points brother, and i am listening m, and you are making difference, I believe your only elect until saved, I believe where is does go wrong is everybody is called. Which is also like being chosen

Thank you my friend I am glad I am making a difference at least then it isn't senseless arguing but honestly I may have to shake the dust off my feet and walk away because I don't see this going anywhere

 

[cv5]

I don't miss hearing you. I just don't believe you.

Yes, He does the very thing He takes no pleasure in. When we do that it is called insanity.

They postulate that men are "without excuse" because they came up short in the pre-birth sovereign lottery.

Yea....it's nuts alright.

 

[cv5]

You sure you made it to the end?
There is nothing about God creating people for death. There was a call given for individuals to respond to God's grace.

It seems people here comment without giving a fair hearing or hearing at all. And that's okay. That's actually what I expected.

Oh. So he is not a Calvinist then.
Good for him.

 

[Kroogz]

If his attributes don't change why would his plan for salvation or redemption?

This is a KEY in this debate. Gods attributes don't change.....And one attribute cannot impugn another.
His Love cannot impugn His Justice..........His Love sent us His salvation, but His Justice is what saves. Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved....

His Love cannot save us. His Sovereignty cannot save us.......It would impugn His Justice/righteousness.

Ps 98:9
before the LORD, for he is coming to judge the earth. He will judge the world with justice, and the nations with fairness.

Isa 56:1
This is what the LORD says: “Guard justice and do righteousness, For My salvation is about to come And My righteousness to be revealed.

Isaiah 52:10
The LORD has bared His holy arm in the sight of all the nations; all the ends of the earth will see the salvation of our God.

Acts 4:12
And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among mankind by which we must be saved.”

 

[Cameron143]

Oh. So he is not a Calvinist then.
Good for him.

Watch it. No one else actually did.

 

[Kroogz]

Oh. So he is not a Calvinist then.
Good for him.

I always take notice of the lack of mentioning the Lord Jesus Christ.

@Cameron143 said: "There was a call given for individuals to respond to God's grace.".......Sounds good and looks good on the surface. But it is not the Gospel message of our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Blain]

This is a KEY in this debate. Gods attributes don't change.....And one attribute cannot impugn another.
His Love cannot impugn His Justice..........His Love sent us His salvation, but His Justice is what saves. Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved....

His Love cannot save us. His Sovereignty cannot save us.......It would impugn His Justice/righteousness.

Ps 98:9
before the LORD, for he is coming to judge the earth. He will judge the world with justice, and the nations with fairness.

Isa 56:1
This is what the LORD says: “Guard justice and do righteousness, For My salvation is about to come And My righteousness to be revealed.

Isaiah 52:10
The LORD has bared His holy arm in the sight of all the nations; all the ends of the earth will see the salvation of our God.

Acts 4:12
And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among mankind by which we must be saved.”

Yes only Jesus himself can save us for salvation is found in no one else anyone who denies this is likely a heretic

 

[cv5]

I always take notice of the lack of mentioning the Lord Jesus Christ.

@Cameron143 said: "There was a call given for individuals to respond to God's grace.".......Sounds good and looks good on the surface. But it is not the Gospel message of our Lord Jesus Christ.

I did not waste time watching it.
Your feedback confirms much thanks

 

[Jordon]

Thank you my friend I am glad I am making a difference at least then it isn't senseless arguing but honestly I may have to shake the dust off my feet and walk away because I don't see this going anywhere

lol what you should remember about that is after you shook it of, is to let it settle and then come back and see if it's turned into magic dust lol

 

[Blain]

lol what you should remember about that is after you shook it of, is to let it settle and then come back and see if it's turned into magic dust lol

I think if it turned into magic dust we would all be high off it I hear pixie dust is the best there is

 

[Jordon]

I think if it turned into magic dust we would all be high off it I hear pixie dust is the best there is

well the more you shake the dust of, the more it may encourage them to do some cleaning up of there own

 

[Cameron143]

I did not waste time watching it.
Your feedback confirms much thanks

He didn't watch hardly any.

 

[sawdust]

Yes we must not build our doctrines from a single verse so yes I do require more than one to make it true as for it being achieved already well the thing is unbelievers still exist as do unbelieving jews so if it was achieved then we would not see it in operation today yet we do even if only as you say in special cirumstances and that scripture there yes it says it was speaking to the people it references but nowhere states it has or will cease in todays age

however there are scriptures that speak on the gifts such as
Corinthians 12:4-7

“There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit distributes them. There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord. There are different kinds of working, but in all of them and in everyone it is the same God at work. Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good.” – 1 Corinthians 12:4-7​

Note the word everyone in this verse and again “Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights.” – James 1:17 and again “To one there is given through the Spirit a message of wisdom, to another a message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues.” – 1 Corinthians 12:8-10
And yet again “If anyone speaks, they should do so as one who speaks the very words of God; if anyone serves, they should do so with the strength God provides, so that in all things God may be praised through Jesus Christ.” – 1 Peter 4:11 {note the word anyone in this one}

There are many more as well but they all are valid and none say they are ceased gone or achieved yet there is one verse that says they will cease and then there is the verse you gave above but that doesn't say any such thing and in particular it speaks about a certain people and that is vague at best it can be interpreted in more than just what your implying

Guess you didn't really listen to what I said about the purpose of tongues. It was a warning to the Jews to accept their Messiah because they were about to go under the final stage of discipline. That occurred in 70AD when the Temple was destroyed. Why would God be talking in tongues to unbelieving Jews now? The discipline has been and gone. Tongues no longer has a purpose.

So you think God gives His word in vagaries? Isaiah was prophesying to Israel because they had departed from the word of God and he was warning them repent or be invaded.

The verses you quote prove nothing. No-one has argued tongues did not exist in the early Church. Go and learn why the gift was given. Paul tells us in 1Cor.14.

 

[sawdust]

You sure you made it to the end?
There is nothing about God creating people for death. There was a call given for individuals to respond to God's grace.

It seems people here comment without giving a fair hearing or hearing at all. And that's okay. That's actually what I expected.

Where did I say he preached that? I said your doctrine says that.

 

[Blue155]

YES!!!!!

 

[NightTwister]

yes all who believe on the name of Jesus Christ will be saved am I missing something?
Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. Mark 16:16

This verse does not support free will. Both reformed and free will supporters agree that "all who believe will be saved."

 

[Cameron143]

Where did I say he preached that? I said your doctrine says that.

No it doesn't. Your misunderstanding of my beliefs says that. I believe people fit themselves for destruction.

 

[sawdust]

They postulate that men are "without excuse" because they came up short in the pre-birth sovereign lottery.

Yea....it's nuts alright.

I can't work out the "without excuse" bit either. Men have every excuse under their doctrine. Adam got us into the mess ensuring we would have to sin. God refuses to do for them what He supposedly does for us. But it's all their fault?

The only excuses I see working are the ones they make for themselves by taking no responsibility for their own response while at the same time putting all the responsibility on the unsaved for their lack of response.

 

[sawdust]

No it doesn't. Your misunderstanding of my beliefs says that. I believe people fit themselves for destruction.

They don't have any choice in the matter. God decided they would be destroyed. They receive no grace, no light, no truth because they have no capacity for it and God decided to do nothing for them.

 

[Cameron143]

They don't have any choice in the matter. God decided they would be destroyed. They receive no grace, no light, no truth because they have no capacity for it and God decided to do nothing for them.

That's not what the Bible teaches. Again, people fit themselves for destruction. God is merciful and gracious to all. The sun shines on the just and the unjust. God manifests Himself to everyone through creation and conscience. Don't you listen to @Kroogz?