I am going to go out on a limb and stir the pot with this one, but I agree with Calvin, Spurgeon, and all the rest. It is clear to me that the Scriptures are very clear on so many issues, and I am becoming more impatient with people who proclaim their denunciations with much fervor but lack any serious understanding of Scripture or the heavenly things. I am definitely working on my heart regarding this impatience, but there is so much that could be cleared up if people would simply read their bible from cover to cover every year.
Reformation
- Thread starter Gpianolf
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To do that, with the desire to know and understand the love of Father and Son. A great love letter to us all from God Father and Son as Won (One)
ForGod in the very beginning off the fall of Adam and Eve had Mercy. Wow, woe is me, thanks
Straining out gnats, swallowing Camels is today straining out verses and using other verses to get others to see what you see from verses
and getting lost in the process
It is like picking cherries from a tree and not seeing the entire tree or the root John 15
Thanks for this reminder to read it all a s whole
ForGod in the very beginning off the fall of Adam and Eve had Mercy. Wow, woe is me, thanks
Straining out gnats, swallowing Camels is today straining out verses and using other verses to get others to see what you see from verses
and getting lost in the process
It is like picking cherries from a tree and not seeing the entire tree or the root John 15
Thanks for this reminder to read it all a s whole
Sadly calvinists are not welcomed here by many or reformed but I personally don't even know enough of their doctrines to decide for myself they can be reformed for all I care in fact a very good friend of mine is reformed. I have been accused of being a calvinist many times as of late so.....yeah I don't know if that is warrented but even if I was one the fact remains we are called to encourage love and build each other up labels like that just divide the body and not in a good way
Act 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
1Jn 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
If people stop going by what people say and read the Bible led by the Spirit there would not be so much division among people who claim Christ.
And more likely they would have the proper understanding about salvation.
2Ti 3:4 lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
Some people do not allow the Spirit to lead them because they will not let go of the flesh.
And they fall short in understanding the truth.
2Ti 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
1Co 10:12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.
1Co 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.
They say faith alone and we cannot abstain from sin.
But the Bible says a Spirit led person can abstain from sin.
So what is the excuse.
I do not care what Calvin, or Spurgeon says, for I check everything out for myself.
For my chances of understanding will be better.
Mat 22:13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.
1Co 1:26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called.
Joh 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
1Jn 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
Many are called but few are chosen which means God does the calling and choosing on earth.
For if God chooses who will be saved in the beginning without their choice then why is He calling people that cannot be chosen.
That means we have a choice in our salvation.
Which is testified that Jesus takes away the sins of the world.
And if the world can have their sins taken away then the world can be saved.
Which is testified that God wants all people to be saved.
When God calls a person according to their heart condition He will work with them to get them to the truth.
But when they get to the door of truth they have to choose to go through the door of truth for God's kingdom is true love.
But they would of not got to the door of truth if God did not intervene in their life.
Not everybody goes through the door of truth which many are called but few are chosen.
And some have a form of godliness but they do not allow the Spirit to lead them and do not come to the truth.
Rom 4:17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead,
and calleth those things which be not as though they were.
Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Luk 11:50 That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation.
God calls things that have not happened yet as though they already happened.
For if it is a plan of God in the beginning to happen in the future it is the same as if it happened in the beginning for it will surely come to pass with no hindrance.
Predestination does not mean that God chooses in the beginning who will be saved and they have no choice.
But it means God already had the plan to give mankind salvation at the foundation of the world.
But this salvation is to whoever wants it for God wants all people to have salvation.
And the Spirit and bride say Come and any person can have that salvation.
I understand being impatient with people who do not understand the truth that is so clear in scripture.
But what can you do when the Bible says they do not come to the truth.
Calvinism is of the flesh so they will not understand the truth.
God said He wants all people to be saved and does not want any to perish.
Many are called but few are chosen.
What is there not to understand.
They are ever learning but do not come to the truth.
God said to turn away from them.
Well, here's the deal, people have read their Bibles from cover to cover and have come away with differing views. And it does no good to be impatient because both can be wrong and believe they are right. As you can see here across the forums. Many different ideas and beliefs.
Indeed, The Scripture is correct when It says -- "STUDY to show Yourself approved of God; A WORKMAN who need not be ashamed, RIGHTLY DIVIDING THE WORD OF TRTUH!
Calvinists have some very hard ideas to swallow. I haven't seen an answer yet to cover these questions. But I still love your heart and fervor brother. Keep seeking and God will show you the way.
Why hello @ThereRoseaLamb It has been quite some time how have you been? And thank you I have always loved your heart as well it is good to see you again
I have been well!! I hadn't seen you in so long either I feared you had left! I hope you have been well through the holiday/Christmas season.
I was actually on the brink of death from starvation and was placed in emergency care for a good while I was unable to afford to eat after rent and the fact my roomate was stealing hundreds of dollars from me every month
Then I placed in a nursing home because I had nowhere else to go it is horrible here it functions exactly like a prison in almost every way except prison gets better food lol but I am hopefully going to be moving to Idaho soon and get my life and freedom back
I'm so sorry to hear that brother! I will keep you in my prayers that God will give you the desires of your heart! God is God on the mountain and in the valleys and He will carry us through. <3
You are absolutely right. And I think that is where I am ultimately coming from. All the different labels are ultimately useless to me. Scripture is just clear on so many different issues that people quibble over that it seems like we miss the forest for the trees. But thank you for the reminder to encourage others and build each other up.
Matt 22:14 The call is referring to the preaching and hearing of the Gospel. Many people hear it and willingly reject the invitation, making their exclusion from the kingdom entirely earned and just. The chosen, however, enter the kingdom due only to the grace of God since He did the choosing and drawing. Therefore, God receives the glory and not man. That is what Scripture clearly teaches over and over again.
I understand..... But wouldn't it be nice if we all stopped bickering over things that are not worth of division? Scripture is just so darn clear on so much! AAHHHHH! lol
Not sure what your talking about but it seems to be everything, but just that one line in the scripture.
1 Corinthians 2:2
For I determined to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ, and Him crucified.
1 Corinthians 15:1-4
Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received,
in which also you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you,
unless you believed in vain. For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died
for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day
according to the Scriptures.
May I ask you whether the death and resurrection of Jesus represents the heart, and soul of the entire
scripture. The atonement offered by the crucifixion of the Lord was God's sovereign will in all it's glory.
That is the word and if you got something else to say your wasting your time.
I feel ya!! I really do! But it feels like things have gotten worse since I first came here. But I will try to be positive, we're only in Jan. things could still change. Maybe?
Know you are a sinner, deserving hell and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ as God, risen saviour. Salvation by grace thru faith in Jesus.
All through the bible. Revealed in the NT, foreshadowed, prophecied and symbolised in the OT.
What Reformed beliefs can do, is fudge on believe on the Lord Jesus Christ..by saying you are effectively saved before putting faith in Jesus.
And then usually, they will say a person will not only believe on Jesus, but be continually persevering in the faith. They usually 'backload' works into salvation.
But there is a spectrum of this kind of belief.. where the more extreme end.. they may not even place their faith in Jesus.. ie ask for forgiveness of sin from Jesus.. but be chosen regardless of anything they do..including calling for salvation.
Then there is the lighter end of it..where people do put their faith in Jesus for salvation.. and their election is based on the fact it was God's sovereign grace that allowed them to believe.
The later case is of where people do get converted and is more biblically sound.
I think though.. to really be biblically sound.. you gotta look at Predestination as God's set planned destinations .. but not regardless of whether you believe on Jesus or not.
A jumbo jet will be going to a particular place, but the passenger still gets on it.
Heaven is pre-set as a place for the converted..but they still gotta believe on the Lord Jesus Christ first.
Faithful believers have greater rewards in heaven, but you gotta be faithful first.
Believers who fail in their walk don't get the same rewards.. still given a place in Heaven ..but they fail first.
Predestination isn't about salvation, but preset destinies for believers who believe first.
All through the bible. Revealed in the NT, foreshadowed, prophecied and symbolised in the OT.
What Reformed beliefs can do, is fudge on believe on the Lord Jesus Christ..by saying you are effectively saved before putting faith in Jesus.
And then usually, they will say a person will not only believe on Jesus, but be continually persevering in the faith. They usually 'backload' works into salvation.
But there is a spectrum of this kind of belief.. where the more extreme end.. they may not even place their faith in Jesus.. ie ask for forgiveness of sin from Jesus.. but be chosen regardless of anything they do..including calling for salvation.
Then there is the lighter end of it..where people do put their faith in Jesus for salvation.. and their election is based on the fact it was God's sovereign grace that allowed them to believe.
The later case is of where people do get converted and is more biblically sound.
I think though.. to really be biblically sound.. you gotta look at Predestination as God's set planned destinations .. but not regardless of whether you believe on Jesus or not.
A jumbo jet will be going to a particular place, but the passenger still gets on it.
Heaven is pre-set as a place for the converted..but they still gotta believe on the Lord Jesus Christ first.
Faithful believers have greater rewards in heaven, but you gotta be faithful first.
Believers who fail in their walk don't get the same rewards.. still given a place in Heaven ..but they fail first.
Predestination isn't about salvation, but preset destinies for believers who believe first.