Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

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Blain said:
I don't think that a single verse taken out of the chapter proves they have ceased and as for the others you gave yes they were fulfilled but I don't see how that means those thre gifts have ceased because if they did then it would have been stated in scripture but the verse you gave where Paul said they will cease if you understand the chapter or at least the surrounding verses you will see he was not saying they will cease in the way you think but rather when the perfect has been perfected

What did he mean bt the perfect being perfected? well that is a tricky one because some believe it is when all things are said and done and others say it is when his word aka the bible was completed but it is mere speculation and no one really seems to know
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I told you how those gifts will cease according to the language that was used, not simply according to how I think. I understand the chapter and surrounding verses just fine thanks.

Believe as you wish.
 
bytheblood said:
Blain, you're wasting your time with Sawdust " Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away." 2 Timothy 3:5 Thank you.
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You think speaking in tongues is some mighty working of God? You should get out more and live by means of grace. That's real power in action.
 
sawdust said:
You think speaking in tongues is some mighty working of God? You should get out more and live by means of grace. That's real power in action.
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Yes it is a mighty work of God or do you think the early church was just babbling nonsense?
 
cv5 said:
People BECOME elect (with POTENTIAL for privilege) only AFTER they CHOOSE to FREELY enter into the covenant.

Abraham BECAME elect post covenant.
Israel BECAME elect post covenant.
The Church BECOMES elect AFTER they declare "I DO" to the covenant.

And BTW, Jacob was "chosen" (the typical and classic "chosen son" scenario) BECAUSE he revered and esteemed the COVENANT and Esau DESPISED it.

Get a grip on reality you are living in your own biblically illiterate fantasy world. And speaking preposterous error 24/7 around here.
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People BECOME elect (with POTENTIAL for privilege) only AFTER they CHOOSE to FREELY enter into the covenant.

Better stated: (given privileged status and with the POTENTIAL for greater blessings).
 
Blain said:
And what makes one the elect?
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They are those who were chosen by God from before the foundation of the world unto salvation. He chose them because He decided to save those specific individuals, but not everyone, and not because He knew in advance they would later do something to deserve being saved - that would make salvation by their works and not by grace. The elect, by their nature, until born-again, are every bit as sinful as the non-elect are and no more deserving of salvation than they are. They obtain and demonstrate the attributes of true Christians from becoming saved/born-again, not to become so.
God chose those of the elect because it was His divine prerogative and good pleasure to arbitrarily choose whomsoever He would, and He demonstrated that through the unilateral actions of His choices. Being God, He owes no explanation or apology to anyone because He did so. He makes that point clear in the verses below.

[Rom 9:13-24 KJV]
13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
14 What shall we say then? [Is there] unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16 So then [it is] not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will [have mercy], and whom he will he hardeneth.
19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed [it], Why hast thou made me thus?
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22 [What] if God, willing to shew [his] wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
 
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cv5 said:
People BECOME elect (with POTENTIAL for privilege) only AFTER they CHOOSE to FREELY enter into the covenant.

Better stated: (given privileged status and with the POTENTIAL for greater blessings).
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Better stated:
People BECOME elect (given privileged status and with the POTENTIAL for greater blessings) only AFTER they have FREELY CHOSEN to enter into the covenant.
 
rogerg said:
They are those who were chosen by God from before the foundation of the world unto salvation. He chose them because He decided to save those specific individuals, but not everyone, and not because He knew in advance they would later do something to deserve being saved - that would make salvation by their works and not by grace. The elect, by their nature, until born-again, are every bit as sinful as the non-elect are and no more deserving of salvation than they are. They obtain and demonstrate the attributes of true Christians from becoming saved/born-again, not to become so.
God chose those of the elect because it was His divine prerogative and good pleasure to arbitrarily choose whomsoever He would, and He demonstrated that through the unilateral actions of His choices. Being God, He owes no explanation or apology to anyone because He did so. He makes that point clear in the verses below.

[Rom 9:13-24 KJV]
13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
14 What shall we say then? [Is there] unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16 So then [it is] not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will [have mercy], and whom he will he hardeneth.
19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed [it], Why hast thou made me thus?
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22 [What] if God, willing to shew [his] wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
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100% biblically illiterate nonsense.
 
sawdust said:
You think speaking in tongues is some mighty working of God? You should get out more and live by means of grace. That's real power in action.
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My two cents:
I cannot say for certain that all of the "sign gifts" have ceased.
However what I can say for certain is that every single supposed "sign gift" that I have seen was undoubtedly false, bogus, fake.
 
rogerg said:
They are those who were chosen by God from before the foundation of the world unto salvation. He chose them because He decided to save those specific individuals, but not everyone, and not because He knew in advance they would later do something to deserve being saved - that would make salvation by their works and not by grace. The elect, by their nature, until born-again, are every bit as sinful as the non-elect are and no more deserving of salvation than they are. They obtain and demonstrate the attributes of true Christians from becoming saved/born-again, not to become so.
God chose those of the elect because it was His divine prerogative and good pleasure to arbitrarily choose whomsoever He would, and He demonstrated that through the unilateral actions of His choices. Being God, He owes no explanation or apology to anyone because He did so. He makes that point clear in the verses below.

[Rom 9:13-24 KJV]
13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
14 What shall we say then? [Is there] unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16 So then [it is] not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will [have mercy], and whom he will he hardeneth.
19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed [it], Why hast thou made me thus?
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22 [What] if God, willing to shew [his] wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
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Well here we go again I suppose you posted all those verses but none of them specifically say he chose the elect before hand yes he has preppared vessels of mercy and yes he does have mercy on whom he chooses which would be all who he has mercy on but what do ou make of this? “The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.” – 2 Peter 3:9

wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.” – 1 Timothy 2:4
There is of course more but from what these two alone say what do you make of that?
 
 
Blain said:
Well here we go again I suppose you posted all those verses but none of them specifically say he chose the elect before hand yes he has preppared vessels of mercy and yes he does have mercy on whom he chooses which would be all who he has mercy on but what do ou make of this? “The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.” – 2 Peter 3:9

wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.” – 1 Timothy 2:4
There is of course more but from what these two alone say what do you make of that?
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[Rom 9:11 KJV] 11 (For [the children] being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth
 
Blain said:
wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.” – 1 Timothy 2:4
There is of course more but from what these two alone say what do you make of that?
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You need to look at John 17:2 to understand who the "all" consist of. They ain't everyone but those GIVEN to Christ by God.
Those are the elect.

[Jhn 17:2 KJV] 2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
 
Blain said:
Well here we go again I suppose you posted all those verses but none of them specifically say he chose the elect before hand yes he has preppared vessels of mercy and yes he does have mercy on whom he chooses which would be all who he has mercy on but what do ou make of this? “The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.” – 2 Peter 3:9

wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.” – 1 Timothy 2:4
There is of course more but from what these two alone say what do you make of that?
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Both those verses pertain to the elect
 
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Blain said:
No it is not look carefully
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Typical go-to verse selections for those free will types who won't look further into what they are actually saying.
 
rogerg said:
[Rom 9:11 KJV] 11 (For [the children] being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth
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Do you know whatr the chapter of this verse entials? it explains in detail what he is talking about and he isn't talking about what your implying this is why certain verses cannot be cherry picked from chapters. He was speaking of the Jews not the elect in Christ
 
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