The Ten Commandments are the Covenant, did you know?

[vassal]

And God's NT law/requirement aka GRFS is this:

The normative way of stating the kerygma/GRFS in the NT is “Accept Christ Jesus as Lord” (as in Acts 16:31, 2Cor. 4:5 & Col. 2:6). The main points of Christian orthodoxy implicit in this statement can be explained or elaborated as follows:

1. There is a/one all-loving and just Lord or Creator God (Deut. 6:4, John 3:16, 2Thes. 1:6), who loves sinful humanity (Rom. 5:6-8, John 3:16) and who is both able (2Tim. 1:12) and willing (1Tim. 2:3-4, Ezek. 33:11) to provide all morally accountable human beings salvation or heaven—a wonderful life full of love, joy and peace forever.
2. Human beings are selfish or sinful (Rom. 3:23, 2Tim. 3:2-4, Col. 3:5), miserable (Gal. 5:19-21), and hopeless (Eph. 2:12) or hell-bound at the judgment (Matt. 23:33 & 25:46) when they reject God’s salvation (John 3:18, Rom. 2:5-11).
3. Jesus is God’s Messiah/Christ and incarnate Son, the way that God has chosen (John 3:16, Acts 16:30-31, Phil. 2:9-11) of providing salvation by means of his atoning death on the cross for the payment of the penalty for the sins of humanity (Rom. 3:22-25 & 5:9-11), followed by his resurrection to reign in heaven (1Cor. 15:14-28).
4. Thus, every person who hears the NT Gospel needs to repent and accept God’s grace or justification in Jesus as Christ/Messiah the Lord or Supreme Commander (Luke 2:11, John 14:6, Acts 16:31), at which moment God’s loving Holy Spirit of Christ indwells/baptizes the believer into the church (Rev. 3:20, Rom. 5:5, 1Cor. 12:13).
5. Loving Christ Jesus as Lord (Luke 2:11), God the Son (Matt. 16:16) or God in the human dimension (Col. 2:9) means reflecting divine love as empowered by the Holy Spirit, thereby obeying His command to love one another (Matt. 7:21, 22:37-40, John 13:35, Rom. 13:9)—forever (Matt. 10:22, Psa. 113:2), which will eventually achieve spiritual maturity on earth and heaven after Christ returns at God’s resurrection (John 14:6, 17&26, Rom. 8:6-17, Gal. 6:7-9, Eph. 1:13-14, Phil. 3:12-16, Heb. 10:36, 12:1, Jam. 1:2-4).

The verses used in that long paragraph were chosen in a selective way to support Paul’s teachings, not the teachings of Jesus. The whole structure of the paragraph is built on Paul’s ideas, and then a few verses from Jesus or the Old Testament are added on the side to make it look complete. But Jesus does not speak in the system described there.
Jesus never taught salvation as a one-time acceptance, never taught justification in Paul’s way, never used courtroom language about penalties being paid, never described the gospel as “accept Christ as Lord,” and never built His message on the kind of theology Paul uses. Jesus always spoke in simple, direct words about believing Him, keeping His commandments, turning from sin, doing the will of the Father, and following Him daily. His message is the gospel of the Kingdom.

Because of this, the paragraph uses many verses from Paul to create its main ideas, and then it pulls a few verses from Jesus or the Old Testament to make it look like Jesus supports that system. Those verses are taken out of their original context and pushed into Paul’s framework. That is why it feels like a “pick and choose” list of texts.

When you read the gospels, Jesus teaches: hear My words, trust My words, keep My words, love God and neighbor, walk in the light, and endure to the end. He says salvation is for those who do the will of the Father, not just those who say “Lord, Lord.” He explains that love for Him is shown by keeping His commandments. He never reduces this to a simple inner acceptance or a quick confession.

The verses in that paragraph were chosen to promote Paul’s doctrines. They do not match the words of Christ. The paragraph tries to place Jesus around Paul’s ideas instead of placing Paul under the teachings of Jesus. When you follow Jesus’ own words, His message is clear, simple, and different from what the paragraph presents.

 

[rogerg]

The verses used in that long paragraph were chosen in a selective way to support Paul’s teachings, not the teachings of Jesus. The whole structure of the paragraph is built on Paul’s ideas, and then a few verses from Jesus or the Old Testament are added on the side to make it look complete. But Jesus does not speak in the system described there.
Jesus never taught salvation as a one-time acceptance, never taught justification in Paul’s way, never used courtroom language about penalties being paid, never described the gospel as “accept Christ as Lord,” and never built His message on the kind of theology Paul uses. Jesus always spoke in simple, direct words about believing Him, keeping His commandments, turning from sin, doing the will of the Father, and following Him daily. His message is the gospel of the Kingdom.

Because of this, the paragraph uses many verses from Paul to create its main ideas, and then it pulls a few verses from Jesus or the Old Testament to make it look like Jesus supports that system. Those verses are taken out of their original context and pushed into Paul’s framework. That is why it feels like a “pick and choose” list of texts.

When you read the gospels, Jesus teaches: hear My words, trust My words, keep My words, love God and neighbor, walk in the light, and endure to the end. He says salvation is for those who do the will of the Father, not just those who say “Lord, Lord.” He explains that love for Him is shown by keeping His commandments. He never reduces this to a simple inner acceptance or a quick confession.

The verses in that paragraph were chosen to promote Paul’s doctrines. They do not match the words of Christ. The paragraph tries to place Jesus around Paul’s ideas instead of placing Paul under the teachings of Jesus. When you follow Jesus’ own words, His message is clear, simple, and different from what the paragraph presents.

The Bible is one integrated book whose authorship was from God, not man, including Paul's writings.

 

[vassal]

Any attempt to satisfy law in order to meet its demands places us under God's wrath. Through Christ, we are no longer under any law except the laws of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus or the law of sin and death - we are one or the other, not both.
Christ alone is the core of the gospel, the keeping of law is not.

You claim that that if someone tries to keep God’s law, they fall under God’s wrath. But Jesus never teaches this. Jesus teaches the exact opposite. Jesus says that keeping God’s commandments is part of love, part of faith, and part of life with Him.
Jesus says:
John 14:15
“If you love Me, keep My commandments.”
John 14:21
“He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me.”
Jesus never separates Himself from God’s commandments. He shows that His own words are the Father’s words.
John 12:49
“For I have not spoken on My own authority, but the Father who sent Me gave Me a command…”
So to follow Jesus is to follow the Father.
Jesus also warns that rejecting God’s commands leads to danger:
Matthew 5:19
“Whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven.”
Jesus also teaches that doing God’s will is what brings a person into the kingdom:
Matthew 7:21
“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.”
He never says that doing the Father’s will places you under wrath. He says it is the path of life.
John, one of Jesus’ closest disciples, also teaches the same thing:
1 John 2:3-4
“Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.”

You say “Christ alone is the core of the gospel, not the law.”
But Jesus says the gospel includes obedience, repentance, and doing the Father’s will.
Mark 1:15
“Repent, and believe in the gospel.”
Repent means turn away from sin and walk in God’s ways. Sin is breaking God’s law, as the Old Testament makes clear.
Jesus never tells anyone that trying to keep God’s commandments brings wrath. He says lawlessness brings destruction.
Matthew 7:23
“Depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.”

Jesus does not teach that keeping God’s commandments puts a person under wrath.
Jesus teaches that obedience shows love, faith, and truth.
Jesus does not replace the commandments.
Jesus strengthens them and puts them in the heart of those who love and follow him.

Anyone who teaches that trying to keep God’s ways brings wrath is not repeating the words of Christ. Jesus always calls His followers to walk in the light, keep the Father’s word, turn from sin, and do what God commands.

 

[vassal]

The Bible is one integrated book whose authorship was from God, not man, including Paul's writings.

I do not dispute that at all what I see is that you put always paul before Christ and that is a serious mistake, Paul is hard to understand and many fail to do so and twist his words.

 

[rogerg]

You claim that that if someone tries to keep God’s law, they fall under God’s wrath. But Jesus never teaches this. Jesus teaches the exact opposite. Jesus says that keeping God’s commandments is part of love, part of faith, and part of life with Him.
Jesus says:
John 14:15
“If you love Me, keep My commandments.”

If anyone tries to satisfy law because it is law then they are under its curse.
"My commandments". You need to research what He mean by my commandments. They are not Old Testament commandments because those He ended with His change of priesthood.

Rom 7:4-6 KJV]
4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, [even] to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not [in] the oldness of the letter.

[Gal 4:5 KJV] 5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

[Act 13:39 KJV] 39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.
[Rom 3:28 KJV] 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
[Rom 5:9 KJV] 9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
[Gal 3:11 KJV] 11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, [it is] evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
[Gal 5:4 KJV] 4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
[Tit 3:7 KJV] 7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

 

[rogerg]

I do not dispute that at all what I see is that you put always paul before Christ and that is a serious mistake, Paul is hard to understand and many fail to do so and twist his words.

No, it is your mistake, and a very grave one at that, because you do not accept the whole gospel as being God's word and thereby not bringing forth the full and complete counsel of God. It was all authored by God and that to include Paul's writing too. It is one integrated book.

From Peter:

[2Pe 3:15-16 KJV]
15 And account [that] the longsuffering of our Lord [is] salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
16 As also in all [his] epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as [they do] also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

 

[vassal]

If anyone tries to satisfy law because it is law then they are under its curse.
"My commandments". You need to research what He mean by my commandments. They are not Old Testament commandments because those He ended with His change of priesthood.

Rom 7:4-6 KJV]
4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, [even] to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not [in] the oldness of the letter.

[Gal 4:5 KJV] 5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

[Act 13:39 KJV] 39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.
[Rom 3:28 KJV] 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
[Rom 5:9 KJV] 9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
[Gal 3:11 KJV] 11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, [it is] evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
[Gal 5:4 KJV] 4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
[Tit 3:7 KJV] 7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Did you notice you use only Paul's words and none of Christ? is not what Christ, the son of God, one with God, said of any importance to you? are Paul's words superior to Christ's?

Matthew 10:24
“The disciple is not above his master, nor the servant above his lord.”

You will not understand Paul’s words until you look at them through the words of Christ.

 

[GWH]

The verses used in that long paragraph were chosen in a selective way to support Paul’s teachings, not the teachings of Jesus. The whole structure of the paragraph is built on Paul’s ideas, and then a few verses from Jesus or the Old Testament are added on the side to make it look complete. But Jesus does not speak in the system described there.
Jesus never taught salvation as a one-time acceptance, never taught justification in Paul’s way, never used courtroom language about penalties being paid, never described the gospel as “accept Christ as Lord,” and never built His message on the kind of theology Paul uses. Jesus always spoke in simple, direct words about believing Him, keeping His commandments, turning from sin, doing the will of the Father, and following Him daily. His message is the gospel of the Kingdom.

Because of this, the paragraph uses many verses from Paul to create its main ideas, and then it pulls a few verses from Jesus or the Old Testament to make it look like Jesus supports that system. Those verses are taken out of their original context and pushed into Paul’s framework. That is why it feels like a “pick and choose” list of texts.

When you read the gospels, Jesus teaches: hear My words, trust My words, keep My words, love God and neighbor, walk in the light, and endure to the end. He says salvation is for those who do the will of the Father, not just those who say “Lord, Lord.” He explains that love for Him is shown by keeping His commandments. He never reduces this to a simple inner acceptance or a quick confession.

The verses in that paragraph were chosen to promote Paul’s doctrines. They do not match the words of Christ. The paragraph tries to place Jesus around Paul’s ideas instead of placing Paul under the teachings of Jesus. When you follow Jesus’ own words, His message is clear, simple, and different from what the paragraph presents.

You view Paul as contradicting Jesus, whereas I view Jesus as inspiring Paul to reveal/teach more of GW.
I choose both-and (harmonization rather than contradiction).

 

[rogerg]

Did you notice you use only Paul's words and none of Christ? is not what Christ, the son of God, one with God, said of any importance to you? are Paul's words superior to Christ's?

Matthew 10:24
“The disciple is not above his master, nor the servant above his lord.”

You will not understand Paul’s words until you look at them through the words of Christ.

And you will understand neither Christ's words nor Paul's words unless you see them in the light of the whole Bible as the being complete council of God. It is all one integrated book authored by God. God moved Paul to write what He wanted written, hence the declaration by Peter that Paul writings were of the "wisdom given unto him". Nothing that Paul wrote contradicted anything Jesus said but continues and explains it as he does with the Bible in general. Unless you can accept that, you will have no creditability as a teacher of scripture

 

[vassal]

And you will understand neither Christ's words nor Paul's words unless you see them in the light of the whole Bible as the being complete council of God. It is all one integrated book authored by God. God moved Paul to write what He wanted written, hence the declaration by Peter that Paul writings were of the "wisdom given unto him". Nothing that Paul wrote contradicted anything Jesus said but continues and explains it as he does with the Bible in general. Unless you can accept that, you will have no creditability as a teacher of scripture

speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest

you did not underline this when you quoted 2 Peter 3:16, like it did not exist this is what I try to explain to you that you twist pails words. you see only paul and not Christ.

anyways I have written the O.P in truth, I now leave you all to discuss as you will, I will no longer comment in writing. I uses scripture in the proper context to bring the truth of Jesus' Gospel and to explain the New Covenant as per scripture.

 

[rogerg]

speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest

you did not underline this when you quoted 2 Peter 3:16, like it did not exist this is what I try to explain to you that you twist pails words. you see only paul and not Christ.

anyways I have written the O.P in truth, I now leave you all to discuss as you will, I did my best to bring the truth of Jesus Gospel and to explain the New Covenant as per scripture.

You not only twist Paul's words, but you refuse to even accept them as scripture. Paul wrote that Jesus, through the new priesthood, replaced the old laws and commandments. So, since you supposedly accept Paul, do you therefore agree that the priesthood and its laws and commandments were changed by Christ under the New Covenant?

 

[rogerg]

anyways I have written the O.P in truth, I now leave you all to discuss as you will, I will no longer comment in writing. I uses scripture in the proper context to bring the truth of Jesus' Gospel and to explain the New Covenant as per scripture.

Not!
It's good that you choose to no longer comment further in the thread so as to not lead astray those who are new to scripture,
with you believing in works of law over God's grace solely through Christ.

 

[TMS]

Calling this “hilarious” misses what Peter was actually saying. Peter did not say God’s law itself was unbearable. He was talking about a misuse of the law, not the law as God gave it.

The verse comes from the council in Jerusalem.

It is impossible to obey the Sinai law today.

Can we obey the 10 commandments ?

 

[Dino246]

You claim that that if someone tries to keep God’s law, they fall under God’s wrath. But Jesus never teaches this. Jesus teaches the exact opposite. Jesus says that keeping God’s commandments is part of love, part of faith, and part of life with Him.
Jesus says:
John 14:15
“If you love Me, keep My commandments.”
John 14:21
“He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me.”
Jesus never separates Himself from God’s commandments. He shows that His own words are the Father’s words.
John 12:49
“For I have not spoken on My own authority, but the Father who sent Me gave Me a command…”
So to follow Jesus is to follow the Father.
Jesus also warns that rejecting God’s commands leads to danger:
Matthew 5:19
“Whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven.”
Jesus also teaches that doing God’s will is what brings a person into the kingdom:
Matthew 7:21
“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.”
He never says that doing the Father’s will places you under wrath. He says it is the path of life.
John, one of Jesus’ closest disciples, also teaches the same thing:
1 John 2:3-4
“Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.”

You say “Christ alone is the core of the gospel, not the law.”
But Jesus says the gospel includes obedience, repentance, and doing the Father’s will.
Mark 1:15
“Repent, and believe in the gospel.”
Repent means turn away from sin and walk in God’s ways. Sin is breaking God’s law, as the Old Testament makes clear.
Jesus never tells anyone that trying to keep God’s commandments brings wrath. He says lawlessness brings destruction.
Matthew 7:23
“Depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.”

Jesus does not teach that keeping God’s commandments puts a person under wrath.
Jesus teaches that obedience shows love, faith, and truth.
Jesus does not replace the commandments.
Jesus strengthens them and puts them in the heart of those who love and follow him.

Anyone who teaches that trying to keep God’s ways brings wrath is not repeating the words of Christ. Jesus always calls His followers to walk in the light, keep the Father’s word, turn from sin, and do what God commands.

The problem with your position is that it is impossible to keep the law today. Not “challenging”, not “difficult”; impossible.

 

[Dino246]

Can we obey the 10 commandments ?

I won’t answer your question until you answer mine:

Do you acknowledge that the law has been changed, as Scripture says?

 

[TMS]

Any attempt to satisfy law in order to meet its demands places us under God's wrath. Through Christ, we are no longer under any law except the laws of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus or the law of sin and death - we are one or the other, not both.
Christ alone is the core of the gospel, the keeping of law is not.

Can you imagine the horror of standing before a judge and hearing the sentence of death pronounced against you? Probably not.

“The wages of sin is death” (Romans 6:23). “all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God” (Romans 3:23). The words are clear, the meaning cannot be mistaken.

All have sinned
We all are sentenced to death.

Good works can not pay the debt, obeying the law will not make us free from our sentence.. what can we give or do to pay back the eternal life we must give.

All have been found guilty before the law, and there is no court of appeal in the world that can reverse the sentence and find you not guilty. The fact is that you are guilty..
According to 1 John 3:4, “sin is the transgression of the law,” and you must plead guilty to breaking the law. Whose law did you break? Paul answers quickly, “I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet” (Romans 7:7). There it is! The Ten-Commandment law is the one that was broken, and it demands death for the transgressor.
There is no works or payment we can give. Keeping the law for the rest of my life will not save me from the penalty of death.

“Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight” (Romans 3:20).

“without shedding of blood is no remission. … So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many” (Hebrews 9:22–28). This is why works can never save the sinner. The sentence is death, and the law cannot be satisfied except by the shedding of blood. That unchangeable law with its unrelenting death sentence could no more be removed than the throne of God could..

The question that has created confusion for multitudes of Christians is.....
If the works of the law cannot save a person, is it therefore necessary to keep the law?

Apparently this was a burning issue in the early church, because Paul asked the same question in Romans 6:1. “Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?” In other words, does grace give us a license to disobey the law of God? His answer is: “God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?” (verse 2)

Grace does not mean we can keep sinning.

We keep the law because we love Jesus.
Not to be saved

Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

1Jn 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

 

[rogerg]

According to 1 John 3:4, “sin is the transgression of the law,” and you must plead guilty to breaking the law. Whose law did you break? Paul answers quickly, “I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet” (Romans 7:7). There it is! The Ten-Commandment law is the one that was broken, and it demands death for the transgressor.
There is no works or payment we can give. Keeping the law for the rest of my life will not save me from the penalty of death.

[Rom 8:2 KJV] 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Notice that Paul did nothing of himself to be placed under the law of Christ. The law itself did it.

 

[NightTwister]

The verses used in that long paragraph were chosen in a selective way to support Paul’s teachings, not the teachings of Jesus. The whole structure of the paragraph is built on Paul’s ideas, and then a few verses from Jesus or the Old Testament are added on the side to make it look complete. But Jesus does not speak in the system described there.
Jesus never taught salvation as a one-time acceptance, never taught justification in Paul’s way, never used courtroom language about penalties being paid, never described the gospel as “accept Christ as Lord,” and never built His message on the kind of theology Paul uses. Jesus always spoke in simple, direct words about believing Him, keeping His commandments, turning from sin, doing the will of the Father, and following Him daily. His message is the gospel of the Kingdom.

Because of this, the paragraph uses many verses from Paul to create its main ideas, and then it pulls a few verses from Jesus or the Old Testament to make it look like Jesus supports that system. Those verses are taken out of their original context and pushed into Paul’s framework. That is why it feels like a “pick and choose” list of texts.

When you read the gospels, Jesus teaches: hear My words, trust My words, keep My words, love God and neighbor, walk in the light, and endure to the end. He says salvation is for those who do the will of the Father, not just those who say “Lord, Lord.” He explains that love for Him is shown by keeping His commandments. He never reduces this to a simple inner acceptance or a quick confession.

The verses in that paragraph were chosen to promote Paul’s doctrines. They do not match the words of Christ. The paragraph tries to place Jesus around Paul’s ideas instead of placing Paul under the teachings of Jesus. When you follow Jesus’ own words, His message is clear, simple, and different from what the paragraph presents.

In the scriptures, Paul's words are Jesus' words.

 

[TMS]

I won’t answer your question until you answer mine:

Do you acknowledge that the law has been changed, as Scripture says?

The laws that were a type, (shadow, school master,) were given to show the plan of salvation. They were nailed to the cross.

Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate,....

These laws ceased at the cross.

God's law did not change. Jesus encouraged us to obey the 10 commandments.

The 10 commandments have not changed. Murder, stealing and lying is still a sin, all 10 are still there to help us understand what sin is.

You might not like my answer but I answered your question.

 

[vassal]

[Rom 8:2 KJV] 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Notice that Paul did nothing of himself to be placed under the law of Christ. The law itself did it.

The “law of the Spirit of life in Christ” is the new life a person receives when they follow Jesus, obey His teachings, turn away from sin, and allow the Holy Spirit to guide them.
This life is different from the old life controlled by sin, which ends in death.
Jesus gives freedom from sin’s control, teaches us through His Spirit, and leads us into true life.