Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[sawdust]

Which was my point the whole time. And he did say an individual could by exploiting grace be worthy. The Christian's worth is found in his or her connection to Christ, and not in their manipulation of grace.

That was not how it sounded. It sounded like like our only worth is Christ in us as if His life never becomes ours. And exploiting grace doesn't mean manipulating, it means using to best advantage what you have been given.

If, by the grace of God, we never develop any worth within ourselves then how could Paul say imitate me? 1Cor.4:16

 

[sawdust]

I believe shock therapy is probably the only way some people will believe.

And when i think about it I believe God the father in the old t had no choice but to take that approach, in the old t.

You have the flood which would have been a huge shock to mankind, you have God evicting people from his garden, which is like a person becoming homeless, a huge Shock, I could go on with many more instances where Gods Judgments would have come as a huge shock to people, and all I'm the bases that he didn't believe what he was being told.

And the bottom line is he was using his word, as an active living fear inside there hearts to make them come to a reality that through his active living fear inside them, they could rule over sin, which is evil, and guess what even that lovely soul a person can have, could rule over it with there soul to, through his living hope


Funny enough this Aussie teacher teaches all this living hope

Maybe this could shock you into believing its his living hope that saves a person,

Hes another Aussie

Once again completely off topic. It's getting boring how you do that so often.

Still waiting for you to explain in detail how your body makes a decision.

 

[Jordon]

Once again completely off topic. It's getting boring how you do that so often.

Still waiting for you to explain in detail how your body makes a decision.

it's of topic because your opinion says so, and because once again you disagree for disagreement sake, if you can't see that living hope saves a person from the Aussie with no limbs , your what you call a griefer, somebody who creates grief.

 

[Jordon]

Still waiting for you to explain in detail how your body makes a decision.

already explained that, your ignorance took no notice

 

[Jordon]

Once again completely off topic. It's getting boring how you do that so often.

Still waiting for you to explain in detail how your body makes a decision.

Because you become to know.

And when you know Jesus is lord it is by the spirit you know watch

 

[sawdust]

already explained that, your ignorance took no notice

No you didn't. You gave some general philosophical rambling without any substance to it.

It's about what I have come to expect from you. Lots to say, but say nothing.

You have a nice day. I don't expect any real answer from you about volition and bodily functions.

grace and peace.

bye <wave>

 

[Jordon]

No you didn't. You gave some general philosophical rambling without any substance to it.

It's about what I have come to expect from you. Lots to say, but say nothing.

You have a nice day. I don't expect any real answer from you about volition and bodily functions.

grace and peace.

bye <wave>

what part of you come to know Jesus is lord by the spirit do you understand in your expectation ?

 

[reneweddaybyday]

. That's good you want that for her, only when you tell me you don't want my prayer I have a hard time believing you at your word here ,

you brought this issue up at Post 31,017 ... then at Post 31,023 you told me I did not need to reply.

Now that you bring this issue up again, here is my reply Jordon ...

From post 31,017:

not so long ago you where very rude to me and told not to pray for you

I did not tell you not to pray for me ... I told you if I needed prayer, I would ask. Here is the full discussion at the time:

Jordon said:​

I'm asking if we can understand where being comforted.​

reneweddaybyday said:​

I have been in some pretty hairy situations and yet I was at peace in my heart and I knew it was God's peace.​

​

Jordon said:​

Sorry to hear you've had many hairy moments I'll try to remember when I write to you.​

​

reneweddaybyday said:​

thank you for your care and concern and please do not worry about me ... if I need prayer, I'll ask for it.​

​

Jordon said:​

but how come your seeing all the things less important only now, when you've come across as being important to you.

Such as you said you'll pray for me earlier but now your saying if you want prayer you'll ask for it, I was only showing concern for your feelings​

​

reneweddaybyday said:​

I am not going through a trial right now ... two weeks ago, yes, I was going through a difficult time ... but I am through that right now ... God saw me through and all is good. thank you for your care and concern.​

Recap: In response to your question "I'm asking if we can understand where being comforted" I indicated I had been some pretty hairy situations, yet had peace in my heart. I was not going through any hairy situation at the time ... I was thinking of situations in the past.

You then indicated you would try to remember when you write to me.

I thanked you for your care and concern, told you not to worry about me, and that if I needed prayer I would ask.

You then questioned why I said if I needed prayer I would ask for it.

I told you I was not going through a trial right then ... two weeks prior I had gone through a rough patch, but God saw me through. I then thanked you for your care and concern.

I do not believe I was rude to you ... but, you apparently believe I was ... apologies ...

seeing as you take the easy way out as well by saying you dont want to be involved, then not calling out inappropriate behaviour from cowardly men towards a caring female like magenta on special days like Christmas day and new year's day, says you don't think much of her. It's so true that people can be very unforgiving on Christmas, and well actions speak the truth about people

It's up to you what you do, but the fact you can't call this kind of behaviour out, when you can quite easily call her behaviour out when it's about you, just says you really don't want to give her any good recognition either.

you are free to reply or not reply to posts as you see fit ... please allow me to reply or not reply to posts as I see fit. thank you.

.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

On point as usual thanks.
It may be that "will of man" and "will of the flesh" can also encompass the folly of works based salvation.

according to some who have posted in this thread, receiving Him is "works based salvation".

John 1:12-13

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name

13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Studier has provided insight into John 1:12 here and here.

God is the One Who determined that those who receive the Lord Jesus Christ ... those who believe on His name ... are the ones who are born of God.

.

 

[Cameron143]

That was not how it sounded. It sounded like like our only worth is Christ in us as if His life never becomes ours. And exploiting grace doesn't mean manipulating, it means using to best advantage what you have been given.

If, by the grace of God, we never develop any worth within ourselves then how could Paul say imitate me? 1Cor.4:16

Our worth is that His life becomes ours.

 

[Jordon]

you brought this issue up at Post 31,017 ... then at Post 31,023 you told me I did not need to reply.

Now that you bring this issue up again, here is my reply Jordon ...

From post 31,017:


I did not tell you not to pray for me ... I told you if I needed prayer, I would ask. Here is the full discussion at the time:

Jordon said:​

I'm asking if we can understand where being comforted.​

reneweddaybyday said:​

I have been in some pretty hairy situations and yet I was at peace in my heart and I knew it was God's peace.​

​

Jordon said:​

Sorry to hear you've had many hairy moments I'll try to remember when I write to you.​

​

reneweddaybyday said:​

thank you for your care and concern and please do not worry about me ... if I need prayer, I'll ask for it.​

​

Jordon said:​

but how come your seeing all the things less important only now, when you've come across as being important to you.​

​

Such as you said you'll pray for me earlier but now your saying if you want prayer you'll ask for it, I was only showing concern for your feelings​

​

reneweddaybyday said:​

I am not going through a trial right now ... two weeks ago, yes, I was going through a difficult time ... but I am through that right now ... God saw me through and all is good. thank you for your care and concern.​

Recap: In response to your question "I'm asking if we can understand where being comforted" I indicated I had been some pretty hairy situations, yet had peace in my heart. I was not going through any hairy situation at the time ... I was thinking of situations in the past.

You then indicated you would try to remember when you write to me.

I thanked you for your care and concern, told you not to worry about me, and that if I needed prayer I would ask.

You then questioned why I said if I needed prayer I would ask for it.

I told you I was not going through a trial right then ... two weeks prior I had gone through a rough patch, but God saw me through. I then thanked you for your care and concern.

I do not believe I was rude to you ... but, you apparently believe I was ... apologies ...





you are free to reply or not reply to posts as you see fit ... please allow me to reply or not reply to posts as I see fit. thank you.

.

ok fair enough I will take correction where correction is due and take you at your word as you do seem very sincere here. , I'm not sure you completely understand where I'm coming from here tho, all I'm asking for really is magenta stops being treated as if she's to blame for all the wrong things that's been said against her. There's is nothing but provocative behaviour going on here.

It's not nice to see and I'm sure it's enough to make anyone react out of character, but people whom are continuously treating magenta this way are taking no responsibility at all for there behaviour even when answered with sound reasoning.



I

 

[cv5]

according to some who have posted in this thread, receiving Him is "works based salvation".

John 1:12-13

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name

13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Studier has provided insight into John 1:12 here and here.

God is the One Who determined that those who receive the Lord Jesus Christ ... those who believe on His name ... are the ones who are born of God.

.

Beautiful work once again by @studier we owe him a debt of gratitude.
Let us strive to meet the high mark of scholarship he has set before us.

John1:12 and/but as many [men] as received Him, [He] gave (edōken from didōmi) [to] them authority (exousian from exousia) children (teknon from tekna) [of] God to become (ginesthai from ginomai), [to] the [men] believing into the name [of] Him.

• But as many [men] as received (actively received/took/accepted) Him, He gave to them – to the men believing in His name - authority to become children of God
• We’ve already looked at “received/took/accepted” and at “believing” and seen that they are active verbs, this the action is being done by these men. No one is receiving for them. No one is believing for them.

 

[HeIsHere]

That was not how it sounded. It sounded like like our only worth is Christ in us as if His life never becomes ours. And exploiting grace doesn't mean manipulating, it means using to best advantage what you have been given.

If, by the grace of God, we never develop any worth within ourselves then how could Paul say imitate me? 1Cor.4:16

Calvinists always frame the argument in terms of "worth."
Part of their modus operandi to convert people.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

ok fair enough I will take correction where correction is due and take you at your word as you do seem very sincere here. , I'm not sure you completely understand where I'm coming from here tho, all I'm asking for really is magenta stops being treated as if she's to blame for all the wrong things that's been said against her. There's is nothing but provocative behaviour going on here.

It's not nice to see and I'm sure it's enough to make anyone react out of character, but people whom are continuously treating magenta this way are taking no responsibility at all for there behaviour even when answered with sound reasoning.

Jordon ... so much is said in the pages of these threads that we forget who said what to whom ... kind of like the recent issue between Magenta and myself where something was said in a separate thread yet was believed to have been said in this thread.

As far as provocative behavior ... the behavior is on both sides ... each side pokes and prods, which is not a bad thing in and of itself until a line is crossed. And that "line" is different in each person.

One thing I do know is that Scripture gives instruction that we are to provoke one another to love and to good works ... and that is seen sporadically in these threads. Once one gets past the squabbling, there are some nuggets of truth to be mined.

Hebrews 10:19-25

19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,

20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;

21 And having an high priest over the house of God;

22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised)

24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works

25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

.

 

[cv5]

Calvinists always frame the argument in terms of "worth."
Part of their modus operandi to convert people.

Mat 23:15
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

 

[Cameron143]

Mat 23:15
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

Calvinists are children of hell?

 

[Genez]

Which was my point the whole time. And he did say an individual could by exploiting grace be worthy. The Christian's worth is found in his or her connection to Christ, and not in their manipulation of grace.

Can you stop emoting over your dogma and start thinking with the Word of God?

Look what God had to say about a believer who had grown and matured.

God actually BOASTED about Job before the angels!

Now, there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, ​

and Satan also came among them. And the Lord said to Satan, “From where do you come?”​

​

So Satan answered the Lord and said, “From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking ​

back and forth on it.”​

​

Then the Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered My servant Job, ​

that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, ​

one who fears God and shuns evil?” Job 1:6-8​

The Lord was praising Job!

Calvinists would have said that about Job?

 

[Jordon]

Jordon ... so much is said in the pages of these threads that we forget who said what to whom ... kind of like the recent issue between Magenta and myself where something was said in a separate thread yet was believed to have been said in this thread.

As far as provocative behavior ... the behavior is on both sides ... each side pokes and prods, which is not a bad thing in and of itself until a line is crossed. And that "line" is different in each person.

One thing I do know is that Scripture gives instruction that we are to provoke one another to love and to good works ... and that is seen sporadically in these threads. Once one gets past the squabbling, there are some nuggets of truth to be mined.

Hebrews 10:19-25

19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,

20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;

21 And having an high priest over the house of God;

22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised)

24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works

25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

.

I haven't forget, my memory is like an elephant, it may be something I wish I never had to be honest, but the same daily routine here as been going on by the same individuals, which is they keep being very disrespectful.

I'm sorry your involved in all this to be honest, I bet you wish you wasn't really, but the people im refering to are very good at involving you, to use you at there own pleasure.

 

[Cameron143]

Can you stop emoting over your dogma and start thinking with the Word of God?

Look what God had to say about a believer who had grown and matured.

God actually BOASTED about Job before the angels!

Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them. And the Lord said to Satan, “From where do you come?”​

​

So Satan answered the Lord and said, “From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking back and forth on it.”​

​

Then the Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered My servant Job, ​

that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, ​

one who fears God and shuns evil?” Job 1:6-8​

The Lord was praising Job!

Calvinists would have said that about Job?

What did Job possess that He did not receive? Jesus told His disciples that they could do nothing apart from Him. God's testimony of Job was a testimony of God's great grace exercised towards Job. Even Satan recognizes how much God has done for Job.

 

[Genez]

Calvinists are children of hell?

Are Mormons children of Hell?
Their teaching is.

Are Jehovah Witnesses children of Hell?
Their teaching is.

Are Catholics children of Hell?
Their teaching is.

Are TULIP people children of Hell?
Their teaching is....