Apologetics: witnessing to atheists

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I remember that sometime shortly after I got saved, I read an article in a Christian magazine claiming that the KJV, the Bible, contained an error. The article pointed to (1 Kings 4:26), which states that Solomon had forty thousand stalls of horses, and then contrasted it with (2 Chronicles 9:25), which states that he had four thousand stalls for horses and chariots.

At the time, I was shocked. For a few moments, I felt a sinking feeling in my stomach. A sudden thought crossed my mind that maybe the Bible was in error, and if so, maybe it was not true after all. However, almost instantly, the Spirit of God came upon me and reminded me of the love, joy, and peace I had never known before accepting Jesus Christ as my Savior. I then said something to the Lord along these lines: “Lord, I do not have an answer for this right now, but I trust that if it is Your will, You will explain this in Your timing.”

About a decade later, God answered that prayer. By what seemed like a chance encounter, I stumbled across a Christian apologetics website that explained this issue clearly and beautifully. God answered my prayer just as He answered my prayer for a Christian wife, even though that one took two decades of waiting. In both cases, He answered in His perfect time.

My point is this. When a person sincerely asks God, truly seeks truth, and waits upon the Lord in faith, however long that waiting may be, God does answer. God is faithful, and God is good.

To see the apologetic explanation of (1 Kings 4:26) in light of (2 Chronicles 9:25), you can check out my free PDF here, if you are interested:


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https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/vd2z...ey=htwpbzso45czpgu7gjlpn8ue1&st=cvppixqy&dl=0

If you did not see it, here is my defense of the Trinity in the KJV:
(I updated the title of this PDF and the manuscript evidence for the Comma to be more accurate to my recent findings;
Nick Sayers believes Codex Britannicus is not the same as minuscule 61 (GA 61) of which I place as footnoted link in the writeup).

View attachment 283775

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/0ge1...ey=r4bq682qkmbroke6yg5c405k3&st=h93cnojt&dl=0

Side Note: If you have trouble accessing the file via my Dropbox link, do not use the Google sign in feature, but login with your normal username and password.

To check out my larger free PDFs, go to www.affectionsabove.com.


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My experience has been that most doubts are resolved by reading the entire Bible and interpreting it correctly via harmonizing,
and the few remaining grains of sand are disconcerting only for someone who believes in verbal inspiration and that the Bible teaches physical science.
 
😊 your story gives me hope concerning finding someone. Even if I don’t get married, perhaps the Lord will bless me with friend of the opposite sex who ends becoming like a sister or best friend to me. Your comment will help someone to always seek and to never allow doubt to have the victory, and to always know there is an answer. Whether we find it or not…either we will, or someone else has already.

I have a similar hope regarding my grown son and daughter, both of whom have no close friends of either sex.
I am torn between encouraging them to pray harder and thereby accidentally depressing them, or accepting the
teachings of Jesus and Paul that singleness has some advantages--at least my kids are not divorced and single parents.
 
I'm an atheist / agnostic.
I am open to good arguments for God's existance. Unfortunately, that is not enough for me to become a christian.

Arguments must be posted and argued hard; why the christian God is the "real God".
So good luck and please post.

If good arguments for God's existence are not enough for you to become a Christian,
then that indicates the truth mentioned by Blue, that faith/disbelief is matter of will and being open-minded.

However, I agree that we cannot base our belief on the claims of miraculous experiences by others.
We walk by faith in God's Word/Truth/Love. What belief do you believe is best?
 
Sorry to hear that. But as you know God has a plan in everything by the people that are in our life.

I believe miracles can and have happened in the lives of Christians but I am not Charismatic or Pentecostal.
I definitely do not seek after miracles (Although I believe God is capable of such if He desires to do them according to His will).
I do tend to lean more towards Cessationism but I do leave room for mystery (just in case I am wrong).
Nick Sayers is the first Christian who I actually trust that has told me two miraculous accounts in his life.
He is moderating my debate this coming February (Lord willing).

The NEB translation is a Critical Text Bible.

I remember getting a tract with just only words and I could not read it.
Seeing, I grew up with comics, I could not resist reading the tract I received from Chick tracts.
Granted, I do not agree with all of their tracts.

I am glad to hear you had a good father to guide you. That is really a huge blessing for sure.

May the Lord Jesus bless you greatly this fine day.
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The Lord has blessed me today with normal Christians on CC, including you and Blue.
Sometimes it seems that the wackos are predominant: pejorative popes, tulipists, quarrelers, babblers, etc.
Happy trails in the new year! :love:
 
For me, God softened my heart with Christian women before I accepted Christ.
I had a crush on three women over the years. All of them were Christian (one of them my wife).
I asked myself at the time, what makes these women so special? They are different. They are not like other women.
It's because Christ had changed their life, just like Jesus did for me, and many others.

You're an old-kind-of-mormon or ..... ?
 
However, I agree that we cannot base our belief on the claims of miraculous experiences by others.
We walk by faith in God's Word/Truth/Love. What belief do you believe is best?

Dear GWH.
That's a fair question. I will reflect upon it.
 
Dear GWH.
That's a fair question. I will reflect upon it.

Okay, and as you reflect may I remind you of my meditation as an open-minded fellow truthseeker?

Another insight I would like to share is what I call the “Propensity Principle” (PP). The PP points out that until proof is provided in the future at the eschaton, humanity’s existential need and desire for eternal life and ultimate justice (the duo of desirables or DOD) make it logical for truthseekers to have a propensity to hope and believe a God who provides the DOD exists, to determine the most credible revelation of God’s requirement for attaining heaven, and to cooperate with His revealed will. IOW, it seems logical–given the existential facts of death and imperfect justice–that an unbiased truthseeker would have a propensity to hope the Christian view is correct, because there is no better (credible and desirable) way of attaining the DOD than NT theism. This PP restates Pascal’s wager in terms of reasonable comparison shopping (with all belief systems) instead of lucky/blind gambling.

The PP employs linear logic (rather than circular reasoning) to propose faith in the NT God as the best belief that solves the maze of reality as follows:

1. Current scientific knowledge cannot explain how the universe came to exist by means of natural causes, thus it is possible that the cause of the universe is a supernatural Creator/God.

2. The most creative species is humanity, whose traits also include language, moral conscience and God consciousness (personality), so it is possible that these human traits reflect attributes of a God who created humanity.

3. Existential reality indicates that humans are mortal and life is painful, but when life is happy, one wishes it would continue indefinitely. Thus, it is rational to seek ways to become immortal in a heavenly existence (where there is love and justice for all forever, the DOD).

4. Comparing all possible ways of achieving the DOD, the best or most credible way/hope at this point appears to be the God who resurrected Christ Jesus.

5. When words from God are sought, the NT teachings of Jesus and Paul seem to be the most highly inspired when compared with other scriptures (including the OT), because its concept of one God as the just and all-loving Judge (rationale for morality) is spiritually highest or most advanced, and the evidence for the resurrection of Jesus is most credible.

6. Thus, it is appropriate or wise to believe in the NT God and to accept Jesus as God’s Messiah.

Atheists deny the validity of this argument, but in the absence of disproof, I find the decision to reject the biblical gospel of salvation from selfishness, spiritual death, and a miserable destiny to be illogical or foolish. This is why all truthseekers should agree on NT theism now rather than assume atheism is an unlucky guess.

As someone has said, heaven is like a vision of water in the desert: the scoffer will surely die where he/she is, while the believer will live if right. Again, however, this analogy should be viewed in terms of comparison shopping and logic rather than of blind faith and fear. True love for God is evoked by His love for humanity and is a reflection of His loving Holy Spirit (1John 4:7-12); it cannot be coerced, although it can be imitated (2Cor. 11:14 calls Satan an “angel of light”). Heaven may not be a mirage!

A biblical illustration of the PP is the OT story about Naaman being told to bathe in the dirty Jordan River to cure his leprosy (2Kings 5:10-14). The Naaman Example teaches us not to let sinful pride prevent us from being cured of spiritual sickness by methods we think are silly or do not fully understand. Some people might not understand why God ordained Messiah to atone for humanity’s sins, so they think the Gospel seems foolish or silly (cf. 1Cor. 1:18-25). However, they accept physical reality without necessarily understanding very well how it works (cf. John 3:8), and Jesus said that those who seek salvation will find it, which indicates that God graces every sinful soul with the ability or opportunity to understand how to be saved (Matt. 7:7, cf. 1Tim. 2:3-4), which might be called “seeking grace”.

Those who reject the PP (and Naaman Example) apparently employ a logical fallacy that might be called non praecedere (comparable to non sequitur), making an unwarranted conclusion which precedes unknown facts, namely the cause for the universe “banging bigly”. Atheists assume a natural cause will be discovered, but their assumption is premature and thus inappropriate or illogical. The astute atheist will realize that the logical train of thought from Descartes to the PP that has been presented is common sense that is available to every normal human adult, which is why there is no excuse for disbelief in God (Rom. 1:20). On the contrary, it is the reason Christians can bet or have confidence that their faith is correct (Heb. 10:19&35, Phil. 3:3-7, Eph. 3:12) and it is the atheists whose faith is blind.
 
Okay, and as you reflect may I remind you of my meditation as an open-minded fellow truthseeker?

GWH:
I am a truth seeker, yes, but the things you wrote is kind of out of my scope.
For me; this means; I do not have either the abilities or the knowledge to follow your arguments.
Which, in a final state, I am still in the agnostic state.
 
The logic for me is not:

"I do not understand your arguments ----> So you are probably right"

The logic for me is more like:

"I do not understand your arguments ----> I cannot see why I should change my mind"

If anyone out there think's my way of thinking here is false, please post your arguments.
 
The logic for me is not:

"I do not understand your arguments ----> So you are probably right"

The logic for me is more like:

"I do not understand your arguments ----> I cannot see why I should change my mind"

If anyone out there think's my way of thinking here is false, please post your arguments.


First point

Not understanding an argument should never ever be a reason why you should agree with anyone. Ever!

You should make an attempt to understand the argument by asking the other person to say things another way.

If the other person can’t, then it means that you can’t have a discussion with that person anymore.


Second point.

This point is the same as above but in this case it is YOU who is clueless about an argument.
In this case it is you who doesn’t understand what is being talked about due to language barriers or ideological indoctrinations.
So in this phase it is you who must grow to ASK the right questions.
 
Second point.

This point is the same as above but in this case it is YOU who is clueless about an argument.
In this case it is you who doesn’t understand what is being talked about due to language barriers or ideological indoctrinations.
So in this phase it is you who must grow to ASK the right questions.

Can you agree upon this fact: Until I am convinced about someone's arguments that are better than my arguments; it's wise to stick to my viewpoint ?
 
You should make an attempt to understand the argument by asking the other person to say things another way.

If the other person can’t, then it means that you can’t have a discussion with that person anymore.

Agree.
 
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Why is "God's Not Dead" not in the list?!

I don’t like the lyrics for the song,

The phrase “God’s Not Dead” sounds negative to me because it is framed as a correction to a claim God was never subject to. God was never dead. Scripture does not argue God back into existence or respond to atheistic accusations. It simply declares, “In the beginning God,” and calls Him “the living God” and “I AM.”

Framing God as “not dead” centers the discussion on human disbelief, whereas Scripture centers the discussion on God’s eternal reality. God does not need to be defended from death. He is, always has been, and always will be the eternal, loving, and the living God.

The story and acting was okay. It was not one that I could relate to as much.

Time Changer, Polycarp, and Play the Flute are my top tier Christian films.
If you have not seen these films, make time to see them right away.
The best acting or performances in a Christian film is the Western Christian movie called, the Redemption of Henry Myers.
I am not even much of a Western fan and this was really awesome as a film. Powerful story that promotes Jesus Christ.
Kevin Sorbo’s best Christian film was “What If.”
The film called, the War Within is a powerful film (although at first the trailers are a little off putting because the characters look a little strange). While the different aspects of a person’s mind is fictional, it really is a captivating Christian film.
Strong Fathers and Strong Daughters is probably one the best Christian films that has a good message and real comedy. I never laughed so hard in a Christian film before.




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Can you agree upon this fact: Until I am convinced about someone's arguments that are better than my arguments; it's wise to stick to my viewpoint ?

This is a true statement.
However if you can't agree that the sky is blue or the grass is green, this makes it a false statement and it also gives you the label of "lack of self-awareness".
 
GWH:
I am a truth seeker, yes, but the things you wrote is kind of out of my scope.
For me; this means; I do not have either the abilities or the knowledge to follow your arguments.
Which, in a final state, I am still in the agnostic state.

I know people dislike Ai, but you can have ChatGPT explain it to you in simple child-like terms.
You can even ask ChatGPT for 100 of the best evidences for the Bible with sources.
I would ask both ChatGPT and Perplexity.ai for good Bible evidences and ask them to give you more.
Whatever you don’t understand, just ask and it will help. If you need more sources, it can give it.
If you need explanation it can give it.

The only thing with Ai is that you have to VERIFY EVERYTHING with actual source links for you to check.
Actually look at the articles it quotes and tell you to verify its words. For sometimes the source links do not always pan out.

Also, I know not many Christians accept Biblical numerics that I mentioned to you before, but this one to me is not something based on experience. Jesus appears 70 x 7 times in both the odd and even number books of the New Testament (when speaking only of Jesus) (KJV). This is simply not possible by random chance and if it was the only pattern, I would say that it may be a fluke. But the sheer number of other patterns and how the patterns build on top of each other and are repeatable shows something far greater at work than anything that could be designed by man (even if he desired to achieve something like this). No other book has the same level of numerics as the KJV. None. I challenge any Christian or atheist or agnostic to show otherwise. If you understand how statistical probability works, you will realize the unlikely nature that this was all just random chance. Also, the unlikelihood that the KJV translators or those who standardized the later KJV editions with updating the spelling, grammar, and got rid of the old archaic hard to read font (with letters like “i” being changed to our “j”, so we would read it as Jesus instead of Iesus, etc.) you would see that this could not be something men could ever pull off even if he wanted to.


Note: I do not believe the KJV supersedes the Hebrew and the Greek.
There are layers of meaning present in the original languages that the English in the KJV does not convey (although I believe the KJV is God’s word in 17th century English for people today). Even Christians may scoff and laugh at the idea that God would preserve His Word in 1600s English but the Scriptures say that God has chosen the foolish things of this world to confound the wise.


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You're an old-kind-of-mormon or ..... ?

This makes you a very poor investigator or detective. Nowhere did I claim or hint at believing in Mormonism. Mormonism is unbiblical. It’s a ridiculous belief system. They believe in wearing spiritual underwear, and they can become their own gods. Mormonism is about as silly as believing in a flat Earth or believing we came from apes, or that the radical Left's Communism is good for our country. Such concepts or ideas verge on stupidity, but people who are caught up in such nonsense are simply brainwashed.


…..
 
The Lord has blessed me today with normal Christians on CC, including you and Blue.
Sometimes it seems that the wackos are predominant: pejorative popes, tulipists, quarrelers, babblers, etc.
Happy trails in the new year! :love:

Yeah, I am strongly against Calvinism or any belief that paints God in an immoral way.
But thank you for your kind words. Happy New Years and great blessings to you and your family, in Jesus’ name.


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Can you agree upon this fact: Until I am convinced about someone's arguments that are better than my arguments; it's wise to stick to my viewpoint ?

Not unless you can explain why your argument is better than any other person's logic; IOW, it is the best belief.
Until then it is wisest to be open to learning a new better/best viewpoint.

Are you still thinking about how your old belief compares with the new PP?
Remember that we are all agnostics and will remain such unless/until we are resurrected.