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stilllearning said:
If you look at the Beijing Commodity Exchange or BC silver is $71.36, while the SHFE or Shanghai is $84. China charges a VAT tax on it's market. The VAT tax is 13%. The BC exchange charges the tax but prices it absent the tax. The SHFE prices in the tax as the listed price. The UAE also charges a VAT tax and they price it on those exchanges with the tax added. That is why there is a difference between them and the COMEX. As the price is the same minus the VAT tax.

Here is a article with more of the explanation why but just going to print this short explanation.

https://discoveryalert.com.au/shfe-bc-copper-price-spread-dynamics-2025/

What Causes the Price Spread Between SHFE Copper and BC Copper?

The Shanghai Futures Exchange (SHFE) and Beijing Commodity Exchange (BC) copper contracts represent the same underlying commodity but can trade at significantly different prices. This price divergence creates what traders call a "spread" that fluctuates based on multiple factors.

The Fundamentals of Copper Market Pricing Mechanisms

Different exchange platforms create unique price environments due to their specific contract specifications and participant bases. SHFE copper contracts have been established longer and typically attract more institutional investors and larger trading volumes, while BC copper markets often see more regional participation and different delivery specifications.

The taxation structure significantly impacts the price relationship. The most critical factor is China's 13% value-added tax (VAT) applied to BC copper but already included in SHFE prices. This tax differential is fundamental to understanding the spread calculation.

Spread Calculation Formula: SHFE price – (BC price × 1.13 VAT) = Current Spread​

I just seen I posted the article on copper instead of silver but it is the same for the various metals. There are also other factors and the article explains it but it gives a idea of why SHFE and COMEX have two different listed prices with the VAT tax being the biggest factor.
Click to expand...
If this is a valid explanation then surely we saw this 13% spread for the last two years. Do you have any historical data to prove that the Shanghai market trades 13% higher than the Comex?

Also, the spread in the markets, although an important indicator, is not the key evidence.

Here is the key evidence.

1. Since 2021 the demand for silver has been greater than the production. As a result the amount of silver available to buy and sell from all of the exchanges has shrunk each of the last five years.

2. Samsung has developed a new battery that is far superior to the ones used in EV's and phones and it uses much more silver. They tried to place an order for 50 million ounces on the Comex and were only able to get 5 million ounces. It is estimated that this development will greatly increase the demand for silver for industrial manufacturing.

3. The US has declared silver as a critical strategic mineral.

4. China, and Mexico, two of the three largest exporters of silver are both suspending exports until they do a complete reassessment and the US is stopping shipments of silver to China.

5. China controls 60-70% of the refined silver and fifteen years ago they cornered the market on rare earth minerals and drove the price up 600%.

6. Twice now in the last seven days the Comex has changed the regulations for owning silver on margin at midnight and then when the market opened they had forced liquidations.

7. There are (or were prior to the forced liquidations) 200 derivatives sold based on each ounce of silver in the Comex.

8. JP Morgan Chase used to have one of the largest short positions on silver in the world, they have since flipped and now have one of the largest stockpiles of silver in the world.

9. Historically the ratio of the price of Gold to silver has been as low as 10:1 and as high as 120:1. Generally it was 12:1 to 15:1. Today it is around 80:1. Therefore the price of silver could quadruple and still be in a very reasonable ratio with gold.

Lynx said:
Howdy and welcome to the Chicken Little thread. You must mean you here.

We don't do facts and explanations here. We do excuses to yell. We do complaining. We do hollering about the end of the world.
Click to expand...

Once again proving that I do do facts and those who claim otherwise are fake news.
 
Lynx said:
Howdy and welcome to the Chicken Little thread. You must mean you here.

We don't do facts and explanations here. We do excuses to yell. We do complaining. We do hollering about the end of the world.
Click to expand...

LOL.........I am just trying to be a good friend while ZNP is running around from the invisible fire. I am chasing trying to put the invixible fire out.

 
ZNP said:
If this is a valid explanation then surely we saw this 13% spread for the last two years. Do you have any historical data to prove that the Shanghai market trades 13% higher than the Comex?

Also, the spread in the markets, although an important indicator, is not the key evidence.

Here is the key evidence.

1. Since 2021 the demand for silver has been greater than the production. As a result the amount of silver available to buy and sell from all of the exchanges has shrunk each of the last five years.

2. Samsung has developed a new battery that is far superior to the ones used in EV's and phones and it uses much more silver. They tried to place an order for 50 million ounces on the Comex and were only able to get 5 million ounces. It is estimated that this development will greatly increase the demand for silver for industrial manufacturing.

3. The US has declared silver as a critical strategic mineral.

4. China, and Mexico, two of the three largest exporters of silver are both suspending exports until they do a complete reassessment and the US is stopping shipments of silver to China.

5. China controls 60-70% of the refined silver and fifteen years ago they cornered the market on rare earth minerals and drove the price up 600%.

6. Twice now in the last seven days the Comex has changed the regulations for owning silver on margin at midnight and then when the market opened they had forced liquidations.

7. There are (or were prior to the forced liquidations) 200 derivatives sold based on each ounce of silver in the Comex.

8. JP Morgan Chase used to have one of the largest short positions on silver in the world, they have since flipped and now have one of the largest stockpiles of silver in the world.

9. Historically the ratio of the price of Gold to silver has been as low as 10:1 and as high as 120:1. Generally it was 12:1 to 15:1. Today it is around 80:1. Therefore the price of silver could quadruple and still be in a very reasonable ratio with gold.



Once again proving that I do do facts and those who claim otherwise are fake news.
Click to expand...

No as @Dude653 pointed out you paint a bullseye around your arrow. You do eisegesis for the secular and the spiritual. Stands to reason what we do in the small we also do in the greater.
 
Pump and dump

1. Tulips are a famous example of a bubble, they became fabulously expensive. Like silver you had a supply and demand where supply could not meet demand. However, unlike silver tulips were not critically important an industry, the demand was esthetic which is extremely elastic.

2. Enron -- we had fraudulent profit and loss statements making Enron look much more profitable than it was. Silver is produced by the ton. You can weigh it, ship it, and keep tabs on it. Also, there is no individual crook who can lie about this as many countries produce and export it and many countries trade in it, and we have many different industries using and buying it.

3. Crypto -- this is not a commodity like Tulips or silver. Nor is this something that a fraudulent profit and loss statement can result in a spike. This is a different way of doing transactions, and it has its appeal for several reasons. In a society where all currencies are being devalued you have a limited supply of the crypto protecting you from someone printing the money and causing hyper inflation. It also appeals to intelligence agencies like the CIA trying to hide their transactions and also to criminals like cartels trying to hide their transactions. Therefore I don't think we can compare silver to crypto unless silver is once again used as a currency. If that were to happen silver would almost certainly skyrocket in value, if there was a shortage before, that would certainly make the shortage go hyperbolic.

Basically there are two things that can cause demand to increase. There is a demand based on industrial need, and there is a demand based on speculation. The demand for tulips and Enron stock was speculative. The demand for silver has risen due to industrial demand.

The recent moves by the Comex have done a lot to shake out speculators (those who purchased the silver on margin). These moves ended the speculative bubble that the Hunt brothers created in the 80s because that was based on speculation and not on industrial demand.
 
The big picture is this:

When the world moved to an industrial revolution in the 1800s we had a spike in the price of coal, iron and raw cotton.

Today we are in a move to an AI and robot revolution. It turns out that all of the things they are trying to build require silver.

The use of VAT to explain the difference in price is baloney.

Also it is funny that those who claim to base their understanding on facts were so quick to accept this argument about the VAT in China without supporting evidence.

I pulled up a graph of the last year, silver was 212 yuan an ounce a year ago and recently hit 586 on December 29th. That is an increase of 176% while the Comex spiked at 166% increase on the year. So then the historical graph is showing an addition 10% increase on the Shanghai market. The Comex peaked at $77.9 and ounce and the claim is that Shanghai was trading as much as $8 more, that is 10%.
 
stilllearning said:
If you look at the Beijing Commodity Exchange or BC silver is $71.36, while the SHFE or Shanghai is $84. China charges a VAT tax on it's market. The VAT tax is 13%. The BC exchange charges the tax but prices it absent the tax. The SHFE prices in the tax as the listed price. The UAE also charges a VAT tax and they price it on those exchanges with the tax added. That is why there is a difference between them and the COMEX. As the price is the same minus the VAT tax.

Here is a article with more of the explanation why but just going to print this short explanation.

https://discoveryalert.com.au/shfe-bc-copper-price-spread-dynamics-2025/

What Causes the Price Spread Between SHFE Copper and BC Copper?

The Shanghai Futures Exchange (SHFE) and Beijing Commodity Exchange (BC) copper contracts represent the same underlying commodity but can trade at significantly different prices. This price divergence creates what traders call a "spread" that fluctuates based on multiple factors.

The Fundamentals of Copper Market Pricing Mechanisms

Different exchange platforms create unique price environments due to their specific contract specifications and participant bases. SHFE copper contracts have been established longer and typically attract more institutional investors and larger trading volumes, while BC copper markets often see more regional participation and different delivery specifications.

The taxation structure significantly impacts the price relationship. The most critical factor is China's 13% value-added tax (VAT) applied to BC copper but already included in SHFE prices. This tax differential is fundamental to understanding the spread calculation.

Spread Calculation Formula: SHFE price – (BC price × 1.13 VAT) = Current Spread​

I just seen I posted the article on copper instead of silver but it is the same for the various metals. There are also other factors and the article explains it but it gives a idea of why SHFE and COMEX have two different listed prices with the VAT tax being the biggest factor.
Click to expand...
Yes, they have a VAT, but that is taken into account. If you look at the 1 year graph on the Shanghai spot price for silver it was 212 Yuan at the start of the year and spiked to 586 a rise of 176%. The increase on silver on the Comex peaked at 77.9 or 166%. Therefore the price in Shanghai has increased an extra 10%. Also the Yuan has gone up relative to the US dollar during that time.
 
stilllearning said:
LOL.........I am just trying to be a good friend while ZNP is running around from the invisible fire. I am chasing trying to put the invixible fire out.

Click to expand...
Ah... Well knock yourself out. It's a full-time job though.
 
I've known for years that the EV car was increasing the price of silver. I knew this before it started going up. This is 10 years later, it was just as predicted. But now we are seeing much higher demand for silver then 10 years ago. I do not want to give investment advise, but it could be opportunity.

I heard Gold was over 4k an oz.
 
China is a really high demand for EV cars, because of how bad the pollution is. China not only has the highest population in the world, but they packed close to each other in the cities. They have had pollution problems for years, as most of the country is valleys. The government is requiring the country to go electric.

This was 10 years ago.

But, do what Jesus said, do not chase after money.

One more thing, there was also inflation!
 

JUST IN: China Silver Export Ban Results Are SHOCKING (Industrial Crisis Confirmed)#silver update
 
ZNP said:

JUST IN: China Silver Export Ban Results Are SHOCKING (Industrial Crisis Confirmed)#silver update
Click to expand...
I can confirm what he is saying here. It used to be at a local silver dealer (the highest rated one in this city) that he sold silver at 3% above spot, that was as little as eight months ago. Now he sells silver at 7% over spot.
 

There is a very interesting point made here. He claims that JP Morgan and representatives of the Federal government went to China to try and negotiate the sale of 50 million ounces of silver and China said no.

This means it is no longer a negotiation. Why? Why not simply come back with a higher price as a counter offer? The reason is simple, China knows they have 60 million ounces of silver currently under contract to sell on the Comex and there is only 40 million ounces of silver in the vault. If everyone stands for delivery Comex goes bust. If two thirds stand for delivery then Comex is empty and will cease to function. Industry will go straight to the producers and cut Comex out completely. How do you get 20 million ounces of silver? You ask other exchanges, but the LBMA is also empty and China said no.

This is where it hits you, yes there are ten countries that export silver, but China used to be one of the biggest (I don't know how much they are still exporting) and when it comes to refining ore they control 60-70%! Right now industrial demand for silver is about 80% of the yearly production. If China refuses to sell their silver to them they are going to have to fight over the other 20-30%, the price will skyrocket and all that silver that China is sitting on will go sky high as well. China is guaranteeing their manufacturing will survive because with sky high silver prices no one will be able to compete with China for the next few years. That would guarantee their control of EV market, Solar Panels, Batteries and AI data centers. This means China wins the war for AI supremacy. Therefore this is an act of war and the US will have no choice but to go to war now.
 
There is another prediction you talked about, this was with Iran falling. Right now the entire country is in a uproar. They are fighting protestors in the entire country. They are trying to over throw the country.
 
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Brasspen said:
There is another prediction you talked about, this was with Iran falling. Right now the entire country is in a uproar. They are fighting protestors in the entire country. They are trying to over throw the country.
Click to expand...

🚨 BREAKING: Iranians BURN Down Islamic Buildings - Iran Uprising

This guys dad still lives in Iran and he gets a lot of videos from his contacts as well as inside scoops.
 

Wall Street Just Made a $70 Billion Mistake and Silver Holders Are About to Win Big
 
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