Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Kroogz]

The spiritual things of God are Bible teachings.

If the natural man walks into a church and listens to a message intended for born again believers?
He will find what he hears to be foolishness. He would be hostile to it, to think he were to join such a group of people.

When a person is being drawn by God, they will be taught about themselves and how their life pertains
in contrast to God's character. They are not aware of what is happening. It is just as if they began having a thought designed to stimulate their own thoughts. It is not like one being seated in a church hearing the Bible being taught.

I believe while someone is being drawn, they become exposed to their ability to sin that they never knew about themselves. That is the Spirit convicting them about sin. They will become depravity conscious...
That is when they may seek to become deliverance conscious, and begin to seek a way to escape the depravity that they are now aware lurks in them. They may try psychology, philosophy, secular cults..etc.

Or they may listen to the voice of demons and make themselves a part of a self-justifying mind-set promoting some evil.
Might even be a college professor they seek to learn from, who will rationalize and justify their particular area of depravity.

The drawing is God working in a person, so the person can be made conscious of having a need to be saved from himself. Being drawn is not about spiritual things. Its about having a rude awakening about oneself and one's shortcomings and potential for evil.

When the phase of being drawn has been completed by God?
Then - The Gospel might be presented, in a manner according to what they person had been able to accept about himself concerning his ability for depravity.

Those things revealed during being drawn were not spiritual things to be seen as foolishness.
Spiritual things are Bible teachings that can only to be appreciated after regeneration has taken hold.

In Christ.... GeneZ

And we have been witnessed to by many of the Reformed/calvies/tulip theory of this very thing.


The problem?


It's only for them and a select few.

@Magenta has witnessed this to us........But it's only for her and a "special subset" of humans.

Rom 5:8
But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

 

[Kroogz]

Unbelievers are moral.

Some are very moral.


Are they spiritual, too?

And that is a HUGE problem. A believer who thinks morality is spiritual.....Is a loser. Hence, the loss of salvation theory.

Spirituality always births morality. But morality NEVER births spirituality.

A moral believer( arrogant, proud and judgmental) can be worse than an immoral unbeliever.

Religion and morality are satans ace trump. Not "sin all you want."

 

[cv5]

Interested in an endless debate of something that has the complexity of which neither party could possibly understand? You are correct. I am not interested. If this debate ever ends, which it probably won’t, you will come away with a stronger belief that we don’t have free will and the other party will have a stronger belief that we do have free will. And whether we have free will or not won’t change. Is what it is.

So simple a child can KNOW and understand. In fact that is the intended purpose. Even to this present day.
BTW, between the Israelites and Egyptians, you have several million eyewitnesses. But word went around very quickly....to Canaan, Edom, Moab, Ammon, Midian, Syria.... everyone knew.

[Exo 6:7 KJV]7 And I will take you to me for a people, and I will be to you a God: and ye shall know that I [am] the LORD your God, which bringeth you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians.

[Exo 7:5, 17 KJV] 5 And the Egyptians shall know that I [am] the LORD, when I stretch forth mine hand upon Egypt, and bring out the children of Israel from among them. ...

 

[Genez]

Understand you are wrong on this. The will is a function of the soul, not the flesh. Our bodies have no capacity to make choices. They work autonomously. You do not choose to make your heart beat or your digestive system to function.

Let him believe what he wants to believe...
Makes no sense to try to reason.

For, he does not believe in THE Rapture.
He has his own notion.

And, he does not believe in the Millennium reign of Christ which is to follow after the end of the Tribulation.
He also has his own notion that Christ has been reigning on earth since shortly after the church-age began.

So, it comes as no surprise that he has chosen to believe that the flesh has a will.

Happy New Year!

grace and peace .........

 

[Genez]

And that is a HUGE problem. A believer who thinks morality is spiritual.....Is a loser. Hence, the loss of salvation theory.

Spirituality always births morality. But morality NEVER births spirituality.

A moral believer( arrogant, proud and judgmental) can be worse than an immoral unbeliever.

Religion and morality are satans ace trump. Not "sin all you want."

Some simply have no idea what it is they are doing...
And, they assume everyone is in the same boat.

 

[Jordon]

Exegesis requires determining the meaning a word held at the time of writing as essential.

Example?

Here you go. Philippians 3:19.

Their end is destruction, their god is their belly, and they glory in their shame, ​

with minds set on earthly things.​

Do you know how the term "belly" was being also used in those days?
How can you make your belly to be your god?

They used the term "belly" to describe what we today refer to as the emotions.
Likewise, the will of the flesh had to do with impulses coming from the fallen nature.

Those who make their belly their god?
Are making their emotions their god.
They are led how they feel about a matter...

And, God calls them what? ..." Enemies of the cross of Christ.'

For, as I have often told you before and now tell you again, even with tears, ​

many live as enemies of the cross of Christ.​

When it is the emotions that drive the opinions of believers?
They are being enemies of the cross of Christ.

Emotions will see people living by objective truth as being a "meany."
Thus... making himself look silly if he is a grown man who is expressing himself that way.

The Lord will sort it all out in the right time and place....

Genesis 6:12
King James Bible
And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth


His way is his life also. for I am the way and the life Jesus said.

For all flesh to corrupt his way, it means all flesh has a desire of it's own will, to go against his life. And to corrupt his life and his way.

It means mans will lives in the flesh.

You and sawdust can deny it all you want to. Mans will means means more to his belly than God does, it's a case of. Guzzling 10 cans of lager and a load of fatty food, that's satisfies them, more than what God does.

 

[Jordon]

Why don't you start understanding it properly? It has been explained to you in quite a lot of detail.

I bet you could not explain to us with the same depth how your body is making all your decisions apart from your mind.

I can because God is the keeper of time, all time and all life is his.

All time is in Gods hands including yours

Psalms 31:15

States the believer realises God's sovereign control over there Journey and that God holds there destiny, devine Providence means God will intervene, and has a devine purpose and plan for everything.

You think because you have a brain.
You make a choice because you have brain, you put your choice into action because you have will. All of which without God in your heart is dependent on your own nature, which may feel right to that person, but unless God is there in there hearts it makes no difference to God what choice they make.

 

[Jordon]

What does "will of the flesh" mean?
Means - Lust and Impulses.
The flesh does no thinking.

It would be your soul that must decide to follow the impulse.
Impulse... In that sense?
Could be used figuratively to mean "will."
But the flesh has no will.

Ever read an account of a near-death experience where the soul of a person is floating above its dead body
and observing it?
And, the body suddenly begins shouting, and demanding that the soul get back in?
The flesh has no will to do that.
The Flesh signals lust and impulses that are conveyed to the soul, who must make a decision of what to do.

That would be like saying feelings of hunger is the flesh willing you to eat.

This is proper monkey business ,

https://youtube.com/shorts/iqSeOON7N9w?si=1EIKyJyiPMdAgoWn

 

[Jordon]

And we have been witnessed to by many of the Reformed/calvies/tulip theory of this very thing.


The problem?


It's only for them and a select few.

@Magenta has witnessed this to us........But it's only for her and a "special subset" of humans.

Rom 5:8
But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

Just another miss representation of magenta, none of you actually listen to the message she's portraying, and all you actually do along with others here is make this debate about her. Yup thats your free will out of control, anyhoo carry on

 

[cv5]

Genesis 6:12
King James Bible
And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth


His way is his life also. for I am the way and the life Jesus said.

For all flesh to corrupt his way, it means all flesh has a desire of it's own will, to go against his life. And to corrupt his life and his way.

It means mans will lives in the flesh.

You and sawdust can deny it all you want to. Mans will means means more to his belly than God does, it's a case of. Guzzling 10 cans of lager and a load of fatty food, that's satisfies them, more than what God does.

I think you need to do a deep dive into this topic and expand your horizons from mere philosophical musings to stark reality.

The flood was instigated because literal fallen angels were literally corrupting the literal gene pool of men (and probably more). And humankind and the women were willing accomplices to this overt intentional criminal scheme.

Furthermore, Satan conducted a similar scheme later on, as the land of Canaan was preemptively set up with a defensive perimeter of giants and their kingdoms in order to attempt to thwart the plan of God there and then.

[Deu 3:3-4, 10-11 KJV]
3 So the LORD our God delivered into our hands Og also, the king of Bashan, and all his people: and we smote him until none was left to him remaining.
4 And we took all his cities at that time, there was not a city which we took not from them, threescore cities, all the region of Argob, the kingdom of Og in Bashan. ...
10 All the cities of the plain, and all Gilead, and all Bashan, unto Salchah and Edrei, cities of the kingdom of Og in Bashan.
11 For only Og king of Bashan remained of the remnant of giants; behold, his bedstead [was] a bedstead of iron; [is] it not in Rabbath of the children of Ammon? nine cubits [was] the length thereof, and four cubits the breadth of it, after the cubit of a man.

[Deu 29:7 KJV] 7 And when ye came unto this place, Sihon the king of Heshbon, and Og the king of Bashan, came out against us unto battle, and we smote them:
[Deu 31:4 KJV] 4 And the LORD shall do unto them as he did to Sihon and to Og, kings of the Amorites, and unto the land of them, whom he destroyed.

Note that Rahab and ALL OF CANAAN knew of the 10 plagues (40 years earlier!), and the advent of God's elect people. Just as all people do today.

[Jos 2:10 KJV] 10 For we have heard how the LORD dried up the water of the Red sea for you, when ye came out of Egypt; and what ye did unto the two kings of the Amorites, that [were] on the other side Jordan, Sihon and Og, whom ye utterly destroyed.

People today therefore have no excuse. Only willful denials.

 

[Jordon]

I think you need to do a deep dive into this topic and expand your horizons from mere philosophical musings to stark reality.

The flood was instigated because literal fallen angels were literally corrupting the literal gene pool of men (and probably more). And humankind and the women were willing accomplices to this overt intentional criminal scheme.

Furthermore, Satan conducted a similar scheme later on, as the land of Canaan was preemptively set up with a defensive perimeter of giants and their kingdoms in order to attempt to thwart the plan of God there and then.

[Deu 3:3-4, 10-11 KJV]
3 So the LORD our God delivered into our hands Og also, the king of Bashan, and all his people: and we smote him until none was left to him remaining.
4 And we took all his cities at that time, there was not a city which we took not from them, threescore cities, all the region of Argob, the kingdom of Og in Bashan. ...
10 All the cities of the plain, and all Gilead, and all Bashan, unto Salchah and Edrei, cities of the kingdom of Og in Bashan.
11 For only Og king of Bashan remained of the remnant of giants; behold, his bedstead [was] a bedstead of iron; [is] it not in Rabbath of the children of Ammon? nine cubits [was] the length thereof, and four cubits the breadth of it, after the cubit of a man.

[Deu 29:7 KJV] 7 And when ye came unto this place, Sihon the king of Heshbon, and Og the king of Bashan, came out against us unto battle, and we smote them:
[Deu 31:4 KJV] 4 And the LORD shall do unto them as he did to Sihon and to Og, kings of the Amorites, and unto the land of them, whom he destroyed.

Note that Rahab and ALL OF CANAAN knew of the 10 plagues (40 years earlier!), and the advent of God's elect people. Just as all people do today.

[Jos 2:10 KJV] 10 For we have heard how the LORD dried up the water of the Red sea for you, when ye came out of Egypt; and what ye did unto the two kings of the Amorites, that [were] on the other side Jordan, Sihon and Og, whom ye utterly destroyed.

People today therefore have no excuse. Only willful denials.

err I think you need to stop leaning on your own understanding

His word says flesh has corrupted his way, and after the flood flesh was still corrupted, what God did was save those who listened to his will when he spoke in there hearts, which is an example that all the other men could of also, but they never.

 

[Jordon]

People today therefore have no excuse. Only willful denials.

people of today are no different as before the fall, inside there soul is alive spiritually or the not.

What makes a living soul alive in spirit is light,

No light equals darkness, and spiritually not alive.

And inside they are like this,
Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

 

[Genez]

Genesis 6:12
King James Bible
And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth


His way is his life also. for I am the way and the life Jesus said.

For all flesh to corrupt his way, it means all flesh has a desire of it's own will, to go against his life. And to corrupt his life and his way.

It means mans will lives in the flesh.

You and sawdust can deny it all you want to. Mans will means means more to his belly than God does, it's a case of. Guzzling 10 cans of lager and a load of fatty food, that's satisfies them, more than what God does.

Let's get Jordon straight...
OK, Jordon?

You play it safe. Deceptively!

You created your own version of the Rapture.
So, you can tell us you believe in the Rapture.
But you do not believe in the Rapture.

You created your own version of the Millennium.
So, you can tell us you believe in the Millennium (1000-year reign of Christ.)

Problem is?
Your monstrosity has allegedly been in operation for over 2000 years!
And, Christ is still in heaven!

You are a FAKER!

You only come here as a DISCOMFORTER.
A smily faced one. A goody two-shoes, one.

Who acts like a silly woman when something upsets him emotionally.

Now you want to argue that the flesh is our will?

It only is a figurative will.
For, what we know that we should do?
It tries to pull us off the road.
Like an automobile that needs a wheel alignment keeps pulling to the side of the road.
But the misaligned wheels have no brain, nor soul.
It does not make decisions for the driver.

You are a "wanna be" trouble maker.
And? You side strongly with the false teachings of the TULIP crowd.
Makes sense, you would.
For it is contrary and disruptive.
The TULIP crowd attracts that kind of contrary individual.

That is what we now can see for the TULIP garden.

Have a nice Day!

Signed... "The Meany!"

You sissy!

 

[Genez]

This is proper monkey business ,

https://youtube.com/shorts/iqSeOON7N9w?si=1EIKyJyiPMdAgoWn

Your days are numbered....

 

[HeIsHere]

And we have been witnessed to by many of the Reformed/calvies/tulip theory of this very thing.


The problem?


It's only for them and a select few.

@Magenta has witnessed this to us........But it's only for her and a "special subset" of humans.

Rom 5:8
But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

When I read some posts, it comes across, that in order to preserve and defend their special status they have to denigrate all the lost as lesser non-deserving.

I find this ideology thoroughly and completely anti-biblical and disgusting.

 

[Genez]

When I read some posts, it comes across, that in order to preserve and defend their special status they have to denigrate all the lost as lesser non-deserving.

I find this ideology thoroughly and completely anti-biblical and disgusting.

Satan finds his disciples...
The deceiver knows what to look for and how to recruit.

Then, he plants a TULIP garden.

But those are not honey bees hovering around the garden.
They are wasps.

.

 

[Jordon]

Let's get Jordon straight...
OK, Jordon?

You play it safe. Deceptively!

You created your own version of the Rapture.
So, you can tell us you believe in the Rapture.
But you do not believe in the Rapture.

You created your own version of the Millennium.
So, you can tell us you believe in the Millennium (1000-year reign of Christ.)

Problem is?
Your monstrosity has allegedly been in operation for over 2000 years!
And, Christ is still in heaven!

You are a FAKER!

You only come here as a DISCOMFORTER.
A smily faced one. A goody two-shoes, one.

Who acts like a silly woman when something upsets him emotionally.

Now you want to argue that the flesh is our will?

It only is a figurative will.
For, what we know that we should do?
It tries to pull us off the road.
Like an automobile that needs a wheel alignment keeps pulling to the side of the road.
But the misaligned wheels have no brain, nor soul.
It does not make decisions for the driver.

You are a "wanna be" trouble maker.
And? You side strongly with the false teachings of the TULIP crowd.
Makes sense, you would.
For it is contrary and disruptive.
The TULIP crowd attracts that kind of contrary individual.

That is what we now can see for the TULIP garden.

Have a nice Day!

Signed... "The Meany!"

You sissy!

absolutely zero conviction in your post, none nada, your just a silly monkey

 

[Jordon]

Your days are numbered....

your intimidation means nothing to me either,

 

[cv5]

Let's get Jordon straight...
OK, Jordon?

You play it safe. Deceptively!

You created your own version of the Rapture.
So, you can tell us you believe in the Rapture.
But you do not believe in the Rapture.

You created your own version of the Millennium.
So, you can tell us you believe in the Millennium (1000-year reign of Christ.)

Problem is?
Your monstrosity has allegedly been in operation for over 2000 years!
And, Christ is still in heaven!

You are a FAKER!

You only come here as a DISCOMFORTER.
A smily faced one. A goody two-shoes, one.

Who acts like a silly woman when something upsets him emotionally.

Now you want to argue that the flesh is our will?

It only is a figurative will.
For, what we know that we should do?
It tries to pull us off the road.
Like an automobile that needs a wheel alignment keeps pulling to the side of the road.
But the misaligned wheels have no brain, nor soul.
It does not make decisions for the driver.

You are a "wanna be" trouble maker.
And? You side strongly with the false teachings of the TULIP crowd.
Makes sense, you would.
For it is contrary and disruptive.
The TULIP crowd attracts that kind of contrary individual.

That is what we now can see for the TULIP garden.

Have a nice Day!

Signed... "The Meany!"

You sissy!

Jordan is a full blown preterist like @Cameron143 ? I missed that. Also missed his views of the rapture and millennium. Repost if you can I would like to review.

But I do agree.....I do also see a contrary spirit, not one inclined to learn.

 

[Jordon]

Let him believe what he wants to believe...
Makes no sense to try to reason.

For, he does not believe in THE Rapture.
He has his own notion.

And, he does not believe in the Millennium reign of Christ which is to follow after the end of the Tribulation.
He also has his own notion that Christ has been reigning on earth since shortly after the church-age began.

So, it comes as no surprise that he has chosen to believe that the flesh has a will.

Happy New Year!

grace and peace .........

your a liar, you have no idea what I believe about the rapture as I've never discussed it here, and neither do I intend to, the only thing I have said about the rapture is it's important to get right with God, where as you make out if I don't believe the rapture like you, or one to better word, if people don't believe God like you do where fake, and all these things you say we are, only you and yourself couldn't care less, unless it suits your opinion.

And all you do is lead with false presumptions, you are quite disturbing