A matter of life or death.

[Gideon300]

It is clear from God's word that the Law of Moses brings only death. It's intent was never to bring life. It was only intended to make people aware of their sin. Perhaps the clearest expression of this is 1 Timothy 1:7-11.

Some believers imagine that God saves us in order to follow the Law. Excuse me? You want to put yourselves back under a set of rules that killed you in the first place?

"For through the law I died to the law so that I might live to God." (Galatians 2:19)

"But now, having died to what bound us, we have been released from the law, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code." (Romans 7:6)

There is so much in God's word that I could quote that I find it hard to choose. However, let's consider this:

2 Corinthians 3:7-11
Now if the ministry of death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with such glory that the Israelites could not gaze at the face of Moses because of its fleeting glory, will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? For if the ministry of condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry of righteousness! Indeed, what was once glorious has no glory now in comparison to the glory that surpasses it. For if what was fading away came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which endures!

I'm not making this up. It is God's word. To me, it would be like being rescued from a filthy hovel, being made clean and provided with a brand new home, only to put the old ragged and filthy clothes back on.

Jesus came that we might have abundant, eternal life. The Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus sets us free from the law of sin and death. Personally, I choose life.

 

[tourist]

Your OP is right on target, brother.

 

[Soyeong]

It is clear from God's word that the Law of Moses brings only death. Its intent was never to bring life. It was only intended to make people aware of their sin.

Nowhere does the Bible say that, but rather it reportedly says the opposite. In Romans 10:5-8, Paul referred to Deuteronomy 30 as the word of faith that we proclaim in regard to the righteousness that is by faith proclaiming that the Mosaic Law is not too difficult for us too bey and that obedience to it brings life and a blessing while disobedience brings death and a curse, so choose life! In Luke 10:25-28, Jesus also affirmed that the way to inherit eternal life is by obeying the greatest two commandments of the Mosaic Law. In Romans 2:6-7, Paul said that those who persist in doing good will be given eternal life. In Hebrews 5:9, Jesus had become a source of eternal salvation for those who obey him. In Proverbs 3:18, the Mosaic Law is a Tree of Life for those who take hold of it. In Revelation 22:14, those who obeyed God's commandments are given the right to eat from the Tree of Life, and so forth.

Perhaps the clearest expression of this is 1 Timothy 1:7-11.

Those verses also don't say that.

Some believers imagine that God saves us in order to follow the Law. Excuse me? You want to put yourselves back under a set of rules that killed you in the first place?

The Mosaic Law wasn't give to kill us in the first place. Jesus saves us from our sin (Matthew 1:21) and it is by the Mosaic Law that we have knowledge of what sin is (Romans 3:20), so Jesus graciously teaching us to be a doer of the Mosaic Law is intrinsically the way that he is giving us his gift of saving us from not being a doer of it.

"For through the law I died to the law so that I might live to God." (Galatians 2:19)

The way to live for God is not by dying to His instructions in the Mosaic Law for how to live for Him, but rather we need to die to a law that was hindering us from living for God in order to live for God, namely the law of sin.

"But now, having died to what bound us, we have been released from the law, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code." (Romans 7:6)

In Romans 7:22-23, Paul said that he delighted in obeying the Law of God in contrast with the law of sin, which held him captive, so it would be absurd to interpret Romans 7:6 as if Paul delighted in being held captive to sin, but rather it is the law of sin that he described as holding him captive. In Romans 7:25-8:2, Paul said that he served the Law of God with his mind in contrast with seeing the law of sin with his flesh and the Law of the Spirit has set us free from the law of sin and death, so again it is not the Law of God that we have been released from. In Romans 8:4-7, Paul contrasted those who walk in the Spirit with those who have minds set on the flesh who are enemies of God who refuse to submit to the Law of God.

There is so much in God's word that I could quote that I find it hard to choose. However, let's consider this:

It should not make sense to you to interpret servants of God as speaking against following Christ's example of obedience to what God has commanded. In Deuteronomy 13, the way that God instructed to determine that someone is a false prophet who is not speaking for Him is if they speaking against obeying the Law of Moses, so it is either incorrect to interpret Paul as doing that or he was a false prophet, but either way followers of Christ should delight in getting to follow his example of obedience to the Law of Moses.

2 Corinthians 3:7-11
Now if the ministry of death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with such glory that the Israelites could not gaze at the face of Moses because of its fleeting glory, will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? For if the ministry of condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry of righteousness! Indeed, what was once glorious has no glory now in comparison to the glory that surpasses it. For if what was fading away came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which endures!

I'm not making this up. It is God's word. To me, it would be like being rescued from a filthy hovel, being made clean and provided with a brand new home, only to put the old ragged and filthy clothes back on.

In Titus 2:14, Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so the way to believe in what Jesus spent his ministry teaching and what he accomplished through the cross is by repenting and becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to the Law of Moses (Acts 21:20) while the way to reject everything that he accomplished and to put the old ragged and filthy clothes back on would be by returning the lawlessness that he gave himself to redeem us from.

Jesus came that we might have abundant, eternal life. The Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus sets us free from the law of sin and death. Personally, I choose life.

The example that Jesus set for us to follow can equivalently be described either as walking in the Spirit or as walking in obedience to the Law of Moses, which is the way to choose life, but you are promoting choosing the law of sin and death instead.

 

[Gideon300]

Soyeong said:
The example that Jesus set for us to follow can equivalently be described either as walking in the Spirit or as walking in obedience to the Law of Moses, which is the way to choose life, but you are promoting choosing the law of sin and death instead.

You obviously have a different Bible from mine.

 

[tablet123]

It is clear from God's word that the Law of Moses brings only death. It's intent was never to bring life. It was only intended to make people aware of their sin. Perhaps the clearest expression of this is 1 Timothy 1:7-11.

Gen 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Deu 11:26 Behold, I set before you this day a blessing and a curse;
Deu 11:27 A blessing, if ye obey the commandments of the LORD your God, which I command you this day:
Deu 11:28 And a curse, if ye will not obey the commandments of the LORD your God, but turn aside out of the way which I command you this day, to go after other gods, which ye have not known.

I understand what you are saying.

But the law of Moses did not bring death.

But kept them right with God causing them to be blessed.

It was the sin in the garden that brought death.

A person might say but we have no eternal life by the law.

Which is true if you try to obey the law by the power of the flesh for the flesh will fail.

But it is not true if you hate sin, and do not want sin, and allow the Spirit to lead you for then you can obey the law.

Which is actually required of us.

For it was all about obeying the law the moral laws and laws of love.

But in the Old Testament they did not have the Spirit like in the New Testament.

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

We do not void out the law by faith but we established the law.

We live up to the law obeying the law.

Because the law is spiritual and anything spiritual has to be obeyed.

And the law is holy, good, and just so the law must always be obeyed.

Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
Col 2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Jesus took the physical ordinances of Israel out of the way.

But He did not take the law out of the way.

Isa 59:1 Behold, the LORD'S hand is not shortened, that it cannot save; neither his ear heavy, that it cannot hear:
Isa 59:2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.

Joh 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

1Jn 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
1Jn 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1Jn 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
1Jn 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

How can the law be taken away when we must do good to be right with God.

The commandments are always to be obeyed.

Jesus said obey the commandments for eternal life.

Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

1Co 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

If a person hates sin, and does not want sin, if they allow the Spirit to lead them they will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh.

They are not under the law because their sins are forgiven and they are not sinning therefore the law cannot touch them for prosecution.

It does not mean the law is done away with.

It does not mean the law is death for the law is spiritual.

2Ti 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

Jas 1:12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.

The people that endure temptation are the people that inherit salvation.

2Ti 3:4 lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Some people do not allow the Spirit to lead them and love sin more than God.

These people do not come to the truth.

Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

If we hold on to sin the blood of Christ cannot wash it away.

If we sin we must repent not wanting the sin and allowing the Spirit to lead us.

Those who do not come to the truth hold on to sin and believe they are saved.

The law is spiritual and must always be obeyed.

For we do not void out the law through faith but we establish the law.

Do people think we do not have to obey the law and we are alright.

Or are they saying the law does not save us but we have to obey the law.

But the law does save us which by the Spirit we can obey the law.

The moral laws, laws of love.

It is about obeying the law which we can do by the Spirit.

For a person in the flesh will not love perfectly.

But a person led by the Spirit will love perfectly.

Which love is the fulfilling of the law.

A Spirit led person will obey the law perfectly which is the way to have a relationship with God.

Charity is greater than faith.

And faith works by love.

No love then no faith.

And love does not think an evil thought.

And does not rejoice in iniquity but rejoices in the truth.

So for those that do not come to the truth breaking the laws of love they lack love.

Jesus saves us so we can have the Spirit to have the power to obey the law so we can be saved.

When a person repents and confesses Christ they should have the understanding to cease from sin and obey the law.

 

[Gideon300]

Gen 2:16

When a person repents and confesses Christ they should have the understanding to cease from sin and obey the law.

You have a slightly better understanding than some, but you are still off the mark. The Law is the shadow; Jesus the reality. Tell me where Jesus said that He came so that we could obey the Law? Jesus said that He came so that we might have life. The Law came through Moses. If the Law could make us alive, Jesus came for no reason and died in vain.

I'll try again, just once. If you don't get it, I can't help you. 1 Timothy 1:7-11. That's who the Law is for. Galatians 3:23-25. That is the purpose of the Law. Romans 10:4 The finalisation of the Law.

 

[timf]

Looking at Old Testament salvation can be interesting.

Eze 18:27 Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive.

Yet there were law keepers for whom this would not be effective.

Luk 18:9 And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:

We might see in the law for Israel that there was an element of faith such that the reason one kept the law was a trust in the promise of God. This element might be absent in the Pharisees.

When Jesus came faith was specifically identified as the mechanism of salvation

Joh_8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

The sufficiency of faith for salvation was extended to gentiles without the law when the gospel of grace was given to Paul for the gentiles.

 

[Soyeong]

Soyeong said:
The example that Jesus set for us to follow can equivalently be described either as walking in the Spirit or as walking in obedience to the Law of Moses, which is the way to choose life, but you are promoting choosing the law of sin and death instead.

You obviously have a different Bible from mine.

I use the ESV. In Romans 7-8, Paul said that the Law of God is good, that he wanted to do good, that he delighted in obeying it, and that he served it with his mind in contrast with the law of sin, which was working within his members to cause him not to do the good that he wanted to do, which was waging war against the law of his mind, which he served with his flesh, which held him captive, and which then Law of the Spirit has freed us from. Moreover, Paul contrasted those who walk in the Spirit with those who have minds set on the flesh who are enemies of God who refuse to submit to the Law of God. The Law of God leads us to do what is holy, righteous, and good (Romans 7:12) while the law of sin leads us in the opposite direction by stirring up sinful passions in order to bear fruit unto death (Romans 7:5). I have been promoting obedience to the Law of God/Law of the Spirit while you have been promoting the opposite direction, which is the law of sin and death.

 

[Soyeong]

Looking at Old Testament salvation can be interesting.

Eze 18:27 Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive.

Yet there were law keepers for whom this would not be effective.

Luk 18:9 And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:

We might see in the law for Israel that there was an element of faith such that the reason one kept the law was a trust in the promise of God. This element might be absent in the Pharisees.

When Jesus came faith was specifically identified as the mechanism of salvation

Joh_8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

The sufficiency of faith for salvation was extended to gentiles without the law when the gospel of grace was given to Paul for the gentiles.

In Psalms 119:29-30, he wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey His law, and he chose the way of faith by setting it before him, so this has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith. Jesus saves us from our sins (Matthew 1:21) and sin is the transgression of God’s law (1 John 2:6), so Jesus graciously teaching us to be a doer of it is intrinsically the way that he is giving us his gift of saving us from not being a doer of it and there is no such thing as salvation from not being a doer of God’s law apart from being a doer of it.

In Matthew 4:15-23, Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, which was a light to the Gentiles, and God’s law was how his audience knew what sin is (Romans 3:20), so repenting from our disobedience to it is a central part of the Gospel of the Kingdom/Grace, which Paul also taught based on God’s law (Acts 14:21-22, 20:24-25, 28:23). In Romans 15:4, Paul said that OT Scripture was written for our instruction, and in Romans 15:18-19, his Gospel involved bringing Gentiles to obedience to it in word and in deed. Likewise, Romans 10:16, 1 Peter 4:17, and 2 Thessalonians 1:8 all speak against those who do not obey the Gospel.

 

[Just_A__Follower]

It is clear from God's word that the Law of Moses brings only death. It's intent was never to bring life. It was only intended to make people aware of their sin. Perhaps the clearest expression of this is 1 Timothy 1:7-11.

Some believers imagine that God saves us in order to follow the Law. Excuse me? You want to put yourselves back under a set of rules that killed you in the first place?

"For through the law I died to the law so that I might live to God." (Galatians 2:19)

"But now, having died to what bound us, we have been released from the law, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code." (Romans 7:6)

There is so much in God's word that I could quote that I find it hard to choose. However, let's consider this:

2 Corinthians 3:7-11
Now if the ministry of death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with such glory that the Israelites could not gaze at the face of Moses because of its fleeting glory, will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? For if the ministry of condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry of righteousness! Indeed, what was once glorious has no glory now in comparison to the glory that surpasses it. For if what was fading away came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which endures!

I'm not making this up. It is God's word. To me, it would be like being rescued from a filthy hovel, being made clean and provided with a brand new home, only to put the old ragged and filthy clothes back on.

Jesus came that we might have abundant, eternal life. The Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus sets us free from the law of sin and death. Personally, I choose life.

I look at it this way. A true follower of Christ tries their best to follow His commandments. Not following His commandments would be sin. But it comes down more to the intention on why one follows His commandments.

Person A: Some follow the law because it’s the law hence they are living under the law as if it is a requirement to spend eternity with Him and don’t want to go to hell.

Person B: Others say there is no law at all so they live how they want thinking they are good.

Person C: Then there’s the ones that follow the law but not because it is a requirement. They follow the law because they love Him. Them following the law is just an effect of the love. Love for Christ is what produces the fruit and desire for good.

We can look at our own children for example. Some children follow the household rules so they don’t get grounded. These also tend to not follow the rules behind the parent’s back. Other children simply rebel and do whatever they want to do thinking their parent doesn’t care and won’t kick them out. Then there’s the child that follows his parent’s rules out of respect and love. They have a desire to please their parents. They tend to even follow the rules when the parents aren’t around.

So does the moral law still exist? I believe it does. But it is not there to condemn us. It is there to protect us just as we make rules to protect our children. Should we follow His commandments? Definitely, but do it out of love and respect for your Father, not because you don’t want to be grounded for eternity. Many throw Matt 7:23 out there for a reason we have to follow it but you could also read that verse this way : depart from Me, you who don’t love Me” since Jesus said those that love Him will follow His commandments. It comes down to His two greatest commandments “LOVE”. Anyways that’s what i believe.

 

[DallasMan]

Some believers imagine that God saves us in order to follow the Law.

In the New Testament, many mentions of “the law” is actually referring to Law of Christ (aka the Law of Liberty) and is not talking about the old testament law. Christians are NOT called to keep or live under the old testament law, but we ARE called to live under the Law of Christ.

Ultimately this means we are called to abide In Christ which is living after the Spirit and not after the flesh, or to be spiritually minded and not carnally minded (see Romans 8). As we see in Romans 8, to be spiritually minded is life and peace but to be carnally minded is death which is separation from the Lord.

Galatians 6:2
Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.

1 Corinthians 9:21
To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.

James 2:12
So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

James 1:25
But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

Romans 8:2
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

*Free as in no longer being a slave to sin, as in stop doing sinful things!

2 Peter 1:4-10
Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

1 Thessalonians 4:3-8
For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:
That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour;
Not in the lust of concupiscence, even as the Gentiles which know not God:
That no man go beyond and defraud his brother in any matter: because that the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also have forewarned you and testified.
For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness.
He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit.

(*Notice what Paul said about his own body in 1 Corinthians 9:27)


Colossians 3:6-10
For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:
In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them.
But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.
Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;
And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

Those that do not put on the New Man and quit walking after the flesh, the wrath of God comes upon them for their disobedience because God is NOT mocked, if we sow to the flesh we shall of the flesh reap corruption (Gal 6:7,8)

2 Thessalonians 1:7-9
And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Things end very badly for those that do not obey the gospel.

Romans 11:19-25
Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

 

[DallasMan]

Your OP is right on target, brother.

He should do better differentiating between the OY Law of Moses and the NT Law of Christ which is what we are under now

 

[tourist]

He should do better differentiating between the OY Law of Moses and the NT Law of Christ which is what we are under now

I believe that we all could do better.

 

[Soyeong]

In the New Testament, many mentions of “the law” is actually referring to Law of Christ (aka the Law of Liberty) and is not talking about the old testament law. Christians are NOT called to keep or live under the old testament law, but we ARE called to live under the Law of Christ.

Jesus and the Apostles quoted from the OT hundreds of times in order to support what they were saying, so it doesn't work to take the position that we should follow only what they said but not what they considered to be an authoritativ source. For example, Christ quoted three times from Deuteronomy in order to defeat the temptations of Satan, which included saying that man shall not live by bread alone but by every word that comes from the mouth of God, so he affirmed God as being an authoritative source and I see no justification for thinking that the Law of Christ is something other than or contrary to anything that God has spoken. In Matthew 4:15-23, Christ began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, which is a light to the Gentiles, and the Law of Moses was how his audience knew what sin is (Romans 3:20), so repenting from our disobedience to it is a central part of the Gospel of the Kingdom/Grace. Christ also set a sinless example for us to follow of how to walk in obedience to the Law of Moses and we are told to follow his example (1 Peter 2:21-22) and that those who abide in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way that he walked (1 John 2:6). So Christ spent his ministry teaching his followers to walk in obedience to the Law of Moses by word and by example, Christians are called to follow what Christ taught, and again I see no justification for thinking that the Law of Christ is something other than or contrary to what Christ taught. The reason why Christ established the New Covenant was not in order to nullify anything that he spent his ministry teaching or so that we could continue to have the same lawlessness that caused the New Covenant to be needed in the first place, but rather the New Covenant still involves following the Law of Moses (Jeremiah 31:33, Ezekiel 36:26-27).

Ultimately this means we are called to abide In Christ which is living after the Spirit and not after the flesh, or to be spiritually minded and not carnally minded (see Romans 8). As we see in Romans 8, to be spiritually minded is life and peace but to be carnally minded is death which is separation from the Lord.

The Law of Moses is God's instructions for how to be a doer of His character traits and God's character traits are the fruits of the Spirit, which is why the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey the Law of Moses in the New Covenant (Ezekiel 36:26-26) and those who abide in Christ are living in obedience to the Law of Moses (1 John 2:6). This is also why the example that Christ set for us to follow can equivalently be described either was walking in the Spirit or as walking in obedience to the Law of Moses. In Romans 8:4-7, Paul contrasted those who walk in the Spirit with those who have minds set on the flesh who are enemies of God who refuse to submit to the Law of God. In Deuteronomy 5:31-33, Moses wrote down everything that God commanded him without departing from it, which is why the Law of Moses is called the Law of God in verses like Nehemiah 8:1-8, Ezra 7:6-12, and Luke 2:22-23. In Galatians 5:16-23, Paul contrasted the desires of the Spirit with the desires of the flesh and everything that he listed as works of the flesh that are against the Spirit are also against the Law of Moses while all of the fruits of the Spirit are aspects of God's character that the Law of Moses was given in order to teach us how to embody.

James 1:25
But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

In Psalms 19:7, the Law of Moses is perfect, in Psalms 119:45, it is of liberty, and in Psalms 119:1-3, it blesses those who obey it, so James 1:25 speaking about a perfect law of liberty that blesses those who obey it is not saying anything about the Law of Moses that wasn't already said in the Psalms.

Romans 8:2
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

*Free as in no longer being a slave to sin, as in stop doing sinful things!

Need, obeying the Law of Moses is how to know to stop doing sinful things.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-9
And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Things end very badly for those that do not obey the gospel.

Indeed, Romans 10:16, 1 Peter 4:17, and 2 Thessalonians 1:7-9 all speak against those who do not obey the Gospel, which calls for our obedience to the Law of Moses.

 

[Gideon300]

I use the ESV. In Romans 7-8, Paul said that the Law of God is good, that he wanted to do good, that he delighted in obeying it, and that he served it with his mind in contrast with the law of sin, which was working within his members to cause him not to do the good that he wanted to do, which was waging war against the law of his mind, which he served with his flesh, which held him captive, and which then Law of the Spirit has freed us from. Moreover, Paul contrasted those who walk in the Spirit with those who have minds set on the flesh who are enemies of God who refuse to submit to the Law of God. The Law of God leads us to do what is holy, righteous, and good (Romans 7:12) while the law of sin leads us in the opposite direction by stirring up sinful passions in order to bear fruit unto death (Romans 7:5). I have been promoting obedience to the Law of God/Law of the Spirit while you have been promoting the opposite direction, which is the law of sin and death.

Whatever.

 

[homwardbound]

Nowhere does the Bible say that, but rather it reportedly says the opposite. In Romans 10:5-8, Paul referred to Deuteronomy 30 as the word of faith that we proclaim in regard to the righteousness that is by faith proclaiming that the Mosaic Law is not too difficult for us too bey and that obedience to it brings life and a blessing while disobedience brings death and a curse, so choose life! In Luke 10:25-28, Jesus also affirmed that the way to inherit eternal life is by obeying the greatest two commandments of the Mosaic Law. In Romans 2:6-7, Paul said that those who persist in doing good will be given eternal life. In Hebrews 5:9, Jesus had become a source of eternal salvation for those who obey him. In Proverbs 3:18, the Mosaic Law is a Tree of Life for those who take hold of it. In Revelation 22:14, those who obeyed God's commandments are given the right to eat from the Tree of Life, and so forth.


Those verses also don't say that.


The Mosaic Law wasn't give to kill us in the first place. Jesus saves us from our sin (Matthew 1:21) and it is by the Mosaic Law that we have knowledge of what sin is (Romans 3:20), so Jesus graciously teaching us to be a doer of the Mosaic Law is intrinsically the way that he is giving us his gift of saving us from not being a doer of it.


The way to live for God is not by dying to His instructions in the Mosaic Law for how to live for Him, but rather we need to die to a law that was hindering us from living for God in order to live for God, namely the law of sin.


In Romans 7:22-23, Paul said that he delighted in obeying the Law of God in contrast with the law of sin, which held him captive, so it would be absurd to interpret Romans 7:6 as if Paul delighted in being held captive to sin, but rather it is the law of sin that he described as holding him captive. In Romans 7:25-8:2, Paul said that he served the Law of God with his mind in contrast with seeing the law of sin with his flesh and the Law of the Spirit has set us free from the law of sin and death, so again it is not the Law of God that we have been released from. In Romans 8:4-7, Paul contrasted those who walk in the Spirit with those who have minds set on the flesh who are enemies of God who refuse to submit to the Law of God.


It should not make sense to you to interpret servants of God as speaking against following Christ's example of obedience to what God has commanded. In Deuteronomy 13, the way that God instructed to determine that someone is a false prophet who is not speaking for Him is if they speaking against obeying the Law of Moses, so it is either incorrect to interpret Paul as doing that or he was a false prophet, but either way followers of Christ should delight in getting to follow his example of obedience to the Law of Moses.


In Titus 2:14, Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so the way to believe in what Jesus spent his ministry teaching and what he accomplished through the cross is by repenting and becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to the Law of Moses (Acts 21:20) while the way to reject everything that he accomplished and to put the old ragged and filthy clothes back on would be by returning the lawlessness that he gave himself to redeem us from.


The example that Jesus set for us to follow can equivalently be described either as walking in the Spirit or as walking in obedience to the Law of Moses, which is the way to choose life, but you are promoting choosing the law of sin and death instead.

Therefore, what Law are you in? the Spirit in love and mercy to all, God Father given in risen Son? Or under it and a person better than others doing it better than others Luke 18:9-14? All have sinned and no one obeys Law perfectly but Son who did once for everyone as reconciled. Is now risen where Father gives new life to this in belief to what is done for them through Son to them
Son, never had to go to death did Son? Never, he was and is perfect in Father for us to become new in his risen Life only if Father gives this to us, to me at least. Those that will not quit belief, will one day see and be new in love and mercy to all too
Woe is me Isaiah 6:1-7

 

[DallasMan]

Jesus and the Apostles quoted from the OT hundreds of times in order to support what they were saying, so it doesn't work to take the position that we should follow only what they said but not what they considered to be an authoritativ source.

You obviously have not studied the Book of Hebrews where we are told Jesus abolished the old covenant so He could bring forth the New Covenant and in doing so He changed the law which is the Law of Christ,

Maybe go learn of God's Word before posting next time as to not be pointing to the old covenant which Jesus abolished.

Hebrews 3:5,6
And Moses verily was faithful in all his house, as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken after; But Christ as a Son over His own house; whose house are we, IF we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.

Now, there is a new house, the Body of Jesus Christ! Under the New Covenant that the Lord said would come forth, we see Jesus Christ as the High Priest. The old covenant with it’s laws and regulations have been taken away because thru Jesus Christ a new and better covenant has come in to place.

Hebrews 10:9
Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
(God said He would make a New Covenant - see Jeremiah 31:31-34)

Hebrews 8:6
But now hath Jesus obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also Jesus is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
And with the changing of the priesthood, God’s Word tells us there is also a change of the law.

Hebrews 7:12
For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

Those following Moses are rejecting Jesus and won't be allowed in to God's Kingdom.