Acts 2:38 Comparison: Evangelical vs. Oneness / Baptismal-Regeneration View

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The discussion' primary time line:

Pentecost AD30
Acts 8 Samaria 35
Paul's conversion 36
Acts 10 (Cornelius) 40
Jerusalem Council 50
Blue Letter Bible Source

You're trying to apply
Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
(NOTE: To make in himself of 2 peoples into 1 new man)

Acts 10:28 Peter said unto them, Ye know how that it is an ""unlawful"" thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean

My point: 10 Years after Acts 2 Pentecost. Under Jewish Law it's UNLAWFUL for a Jew to keep company with a gentile.

The narrative you're trying to FORCE into the discussion doesn't fit!

The 10 year gap between Pentecost and the conversion of Cornelius is your assumption. I think it is far more likely that period was 3.5 years, corresponding with the end of Daniels' prophesied 70th week in which the new covenant was to be established with Israel. Then God sent the head apostle, Peter, to open the door to the gentiles. The wall had already been broken down at the cross, but God was faithful to his promise to Israel to establish the new covenant with Israel first. But even then, before Peter's vision that God had made gentiles clean, Philip baptized the Ethiopian eunuch, who couldn't have been a part of Israel because it was against the law.

One with crushed testicles, nor being cut off, shall not enter into the assembly of the LORD. Deuteronomy 23:1
After the cross it was unlawful for Peter to associate with gentiles only in his mind.
 
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How is what I said error? Of course Noah would have drowned with the others, if he refused to build the ark, demonstrating a lack of faith, but of course, that was not the case. Keep in mind that Noah had already found grace in the eyes of the Lord and was a just man who walked with God (Genesis 6:8,9) before he built the ark. His obedience was a demonstration of his faith but not the origin of it.
This is your error.

You are implying that sincere faith is always obedient, this is not so. A sincere and faithful Noah could have not followed the commands of God and attempted to find an easier way to survive the flood.

This is what happen with Abraham when he attempted to have a child with Hagar instead of Sarah. Abraham was a great man of faith but he did not obey and paid the price.

This is true for the sincere and faithful believer. He can still choose to follow his own path but will face the consequences. And the consequence may be spiritually deadly.
 
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The 10 year gap between Pentecost and the conversion of Cornelius is your assumption. I think it is far more likely that period was 3.5 years, corresponding with the end of Daniels' prophesied 70th week in which the new covenant was to be established with Israel. Then God sent the head apostle, Peter, to open the door to the gentiles. The wall had already been broken down at the cross, but God was faithful to his promise to Israel to establish the new covenant with Israel first. But even then, before Peter's vision that God had made gentiles clean, Philip baptized the Ethiopian eunuch, who couldn't have been a part of Israel because it was against the law.

One with crushed testicles, nor being cut off, shall not enter into the assembly of the LORD. Deuteronomy 23:1
After the cross it was unlawful for Peter to associate with gentiles only in his mind.
Paul could say that, and he told you why he said that. He said that he did not want to do the baptizing because, he was fearful that they would say they were baptized in Paul's name, but he was not crucified for you, it was Christ that was crucified for you, therefore you are to be baptized in the name of Christ. His reason wasn't because baptism wasn't part of his gospel, it was because they were bickering over who they were of. Please read the text, it is clear why Paul did not want to baptize people, he told you plain as day the reason.

10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.
11 For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you.
12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?
14 I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
15 Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.

See Paul tells you please listen to the text. No where does he say that baptism is not part of his gospel he just did not want to do the dipping for the reason he told you above. It is you rejecting his reasoning that causes you to come up with such foolishness.

Yes Paul did baptize a few so he accepts the teaching of baptism in the name of Christ. Paul said his own baptism was to wash away his sins. Paul has no sermon recorded in scriptures that I can recall at the moment but does mention it many times in his letters to the churches. Paul goes into great detail explaining how it is the new birth in Romans 6 .

It is you that are having trouble understanding Paul for you missed the clear reason he said he was not sent to baptize it is clear he teaches it and even baptized a few but doesn't do it often for the reason he gave. Please open your eyes to what he said in the passage you take out of context and try to build a doctrine on. It is wrong to do such with scripture.


It is you that really can't understand clear scripture teaching or just refusing to accept it and believe the words God had recorded but I will go over this with you again slowly so you can see. I will give the benefit of doubt no It doesn't say Paul did the baptizing but it is clear that Paul had it done. Paul preached the baptism of Acts 2:38 and scripture makes that clear there is no way around it by the recorded text. Then you want to say that when Paul laid hands on them that was when they received the promised indwelling spirit. Again that is you not understanding scripture the laying on of hands was not to give the indwelling spirit it gave the power of witness so they could grow the freshly planted church.


This is just someone trying there best to find a loop hole where there is none. No one has ever said to be baptized with out faith in the gospel. You must believe the gospel before you can submit to its call.. There is no need to say "He that is not baptized will be condemned" for the rejection of the gospel has already condemned you. This is plain as the nose on your face and tells you are not seeking the truth but trying to make the truth fit your bias. It is when people try to use this reasoning that you know you have hit a brick wall that they no longer are seeking truth but looking for loop holes.

Well, You keep repeating your interpretation, but you're not dealing with the actual text. I'll walk through this slowly & biblically.

Paul's reason for not baptizing does NOT change what he said. You keep saying:

That's fine, but, it doesn’t erase the actual statement: Christ sent me NOT to baptize but to preach the gospel. (1 Cor 1:17)

If baptism were the essential act that causes salvation, Paul could never say: Christ did NOT send me to baptize. I thank God I baptized none of you. I don’t remember baptizing anyone else.

Your explanation doesn't fix the problem, it makes it worse.

If baptism = salvation, then Paul is saying: Christ didn’t send me to save people. Really? This is the same guy that endured:

Acts 9:29 Jews attempt to put him to death, 13:50 Jews expelled Paul & Barnabas out of their coasts, 14:5 Jews stone him, 16:22-23 beaten with many stripes, 18:12 Jews haul him into court, 20:23 bondage awaits in Jerusalem, 21:31 & 22:22 life threatened, 23:3 beaten, 2 Cor 11:24 Of the Jews five times received I forty stripes save one. 25 Thrice was I beaten with rods, once was I stoned, 26 in perils by mine own countrymen, perils among false brethren. & this: (Acts 9:29, 13:50, 14:5, 16:22-23, 18:12, 20:23, 21:31, 22:22, 23:3, 2 Cor 11:24, 25, 26)

Your theology forces Paul to contradict Christ & that's absurd.

You claim: Paul's reason for not baptizing PROVES baptism is not the gospel. He didn’t want people saying they were baptized in Paul’s name.

If baptism were the moment sins are washed away & the Spirit is received, then Paul refusing to baptize people would be: refusing to help with getting them saved, refusing to help in getting their sins removed, refusing to help them receive the Spirit & refusing to obey Christ.

Your interpretation makes Paul irresponsible, disobedient, negligent & again is absurd. Mine makes Paul consistent with his own Christ given gospel: Grace > Faith > Spirit reception.

You keep claiming Paul preached Acts 2:38, but, Paul never says that. Not once in any of Paul's epistles does he: command baptism "in Jesus' name", tie baptism to forgiveness, tie baptism to receiving the Spirit, preach water as part of the gospel.

Instead he says: Did you receive the Spirit by works or by the hearing of faith? (Gal 3:2). Having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit (Eph 1:13). We are justified by faith apart from works (Rom 3:28).

Your system requires Paul to preach Peter’s sermon. Scripture confirms he didn't.

Acts 19 destroys your argument, not mine. You keep insisting Paul baptized the Ephesians. The text says: Paul's only instruction: Believe on Christ Jesus (v.4). Luke narrates what they did in v.5. The Spirit comes in v.6 by laying on of hands, not water. If water = Spirit, would Paul ask: Did you receive the Spirit when you believed? (v.2). But he doesn't. Because he doesn't preach your formula.

Your claim about laying on of hands is invented. You said: Laying on of hands wasn't for the indwelling Spirit. Acts 8 says the opposite, Acts 19 says the opposite, Acts 10 shows the Spirit falling before water. You're rewriting the text to protect your corrupt formula.

Mark 16:16 actually destroys your position. You said: He that believes and is baptized will be saved. But you ignored the second 1/2: He that does NOT believe will be condemned. Condemnation is tied to unbelief, not lack of baptism. If water baptism war the Holy Grail leading to salvation, Jesus would have said: He that is not baptized will be condemned. He didn't.

Your argument collapses because you keep assuming what you need to prove. You assume: water baptism = salvation, water baptism = Spirit reception, water baptism = new birth, laying on of hands = only transfers power, not Spirit, - Luke's narration = doctrine, Paul's statements don't mean what they say. None of that is in the text. You're reading your doctrine into Scripture, not out of it.

If baptism were the essential act that causes salvation, Paul could never say: Christ sent me NOT to baptize. I thank God I baptized none of you. Did you receive the Spirit when you believed? Having believed, you were sealed with the Spirit. “We are justified by faith apart from works. Your system forces Paul to contradict Paul. Mine lets Paul speak for himself.
 
The 10 year gap between Pentecost and the conversion of Cornelius is your assumption. I think it is far more likely that period was 3.5 years, corresponding with the end of Daniels' prophesied 70th week in which the new covenant was to be established with Israel. Then God sent the head apostle, Peter, to open the door to the gentiles. The wall had already been broken down at the cross, but God was faithful to his promise to Israel to establish the new covenant with Israel first. But even then, before Peter's vision that God had made gentiles clean, Philip baptized the Ethiopian eunuch, who couldn't have been a part of Israel because it was against the law.

One with crushed testicles, nor being cut off, shall not enter into the assembly of the LORD. Deuteronomy 23:1
After the cross it was unlawful for Peter to associate with gentiles only in his mind.

LOL, only in Peter' mind & your 3 1/2 years statement was an assumption.

I gave the source for the years I posted = Blue Letter Bible Source

Peters Acts 10 unlawful statement is grounded in OT marital, ceremonial & separation laws. Lev 20:26, Deut 7:2-3, Ezra 9:1-2 & shows up again in Jn 4:9 & 18:28

Paul isn't converted 3 1/2 years after Pentecost.
 
The thing about my assumption is that it actually fits well with prophecy, whereas the blue letter bible opinions are only assumption.

Your assumption is no more then that, Your assumption.

Here some more scripture help (You've provided none.)


Peter’s reaction in Acts 10 proves beyond argument that he was still under Jewish law.

Peter tells the Lord: ""I have NEVER eaten anything unclean"" is not someone who left Moses behind. He’s someone still obeying Leviticus 11 to the letter.

His statement that it was “unlawful” to visit a Gentile only, makes it clear he was still bound by the separation laws of Deut 7 and Lev 20 & the strict Jewish traditions that forbade entering a Gentile home.

If Peter wasn’t still living under those laws, then the vision wouldn’t shock him, the command wouldn't confront him & walking into Cornelius’s house wouldn't require a divine override.

Acts 10 is God breaking a boundary Peter was still actively keeping.
 
His statement that it was “unlawful” to visit a Gentile only, makes it clear he was still bound by the separation laws of Deut 7 and Lev 20 & the strict Jewish traditions that forbade entering a Gentile home.

It obviously wasn't unlawful at the time because God said he had cleansed the gentiles. Not was going to; already had. And that happened at the cross
 
This is your error.

You are implying that sincere faith is always obedient, this is not so. A sincere and faithful Noah could have not followed the commands of God and attempted to find an easier way to survive the flood.

This is what happen with Abraham when he attempted to have a child with Hagar instead of Sarah. Abraham was a great man of faith but he did not obey and paid the price.

This is true for the sincere and faithful believer. He can still choose to follow his own path but will face the consequences. And the consequence may be spiritually deadly.
Just because someone has sincere faith doesn't mean that they will never mess up at all. Even genuine believers can have their weak moments. Now in Genesis 15:6, we read that Abraham believed in the Lord and his faith was accounted to him for righteousness. Also see Romans 4:2-3. No spiritually deadly consequences for him.
 
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) 0 Well, You keep repeating your interpretation, but you're not dealing with the actual text. I'll walk through this slowly & biblically.

1 Paul's reason for not baptizing does NOT change what he said. You keep saying:

2 That's fine, but, it doesn’t erase the actual statement: Christ sent me NOT to baptize but to preach the gospel. (1 Cor 1:17)

3 If baptism were the essential act that causes salvation, Paul could never say: Christ did NOT send me to baptize. I thank God I baptized none of you. I don’t remember baptizing anyone else.

4 Your explanation doesn't fix the problem, it makes it worse.

5 If baptism = salvation, then Paul is saying: Christ didn’t send me to save people. Really? This is the same guy that endured:

6 Acts 9:29 Jews attempt to put him to death, 13:50 Jews expelled Paul & Barnabas out of their coasts, 14:5 Jews stone him, 16:22-23 beaten with many stripes, 18:12 Jews haul him into court, 20:23 bondage awaits in Jerusalem, 21:31 & 22:22 life threatened, 23:3 beaten, 2 Cor 11:24 Of the Jews five times received I forty stripes save one. 25 Thrice was I beaten with rods, once was I stoned, 26 in perils by mine own countrymen, perils among false brethren. & this: (Acts 9:29, 13:50, 14:5, 16:22-23, 18:12, 20:23, 21:31, 22:22, 23:3, 2 Cor 11:24, 25, 26)

7 Your theology forces Paul to contradict Christ & that's absurd.

8 You claim: Paul's reason for not baptizing PROVES baptism is not the gospel. He didn’t want people saying they were baptized in Paul’s name.

9 If baptism were the moment sins are washed away & the Spirit is received, then Paul refusing to baptize people would be: refusing to help with getting them saved, refusing to help in getting their sins removed, refusing to help them receive the Spirit & refusing to obey Christ.

10 Your interpretation makes Paul irresponsible, disobedient, negligent & again is absurd. Mine makes Paul consistent with his own Christ given gospel: Grace > Faith > Spirit reception.

11 You keep claiming Paul preached Acts 2:38, but, Paul never says that. Not once in any of Paul's epistles does he: command baptism "in Jesus' name", tie baptism to forgiveness, tie baptism to receiving the Spirit, preach water as part of the gospel.

12 Instead he says: Did you receive the Spirit by works or by the hearing of faith? (Gal 3:2). Having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit (Eph 1:13). We are justified by faith apart from works (Rom 3:28).

13 Your system requires Paul to preach Peter’s sermon. Scripture confirms he didn't.

14 Acts 19 destroys your argument, not mine. You keep insisting Paul baptized the Ephesians. The text says: Paul's only instruction: Believe on Christ Jesus (v.4). Luke narrates what they did in v.5. The Spirit comes in v.6 by laying on of hands, not water. If water = Spirit, would Paul ask: Did you receive the Spirit when you believed? (v.2). But he doesn't. Because he doesn't preach your formula.

15 Your claim about laying on of hands is invented. You said: Laying on of hands wasn't for the indwelling Spirit. Acts 8 says the opposite, Acts 19 says the opposite, Acts 10 shows the Spirit falling before water. You're rewriting the text to protect your corrupt formula.

16 Mark 16:16 actually destroys your position. You said: He that believes and is baptized will be saved. But you ignored the second 1/2: He that does NOT believe will be condemned. Condemnation is tied to unbelief, not lack of baptism. If water baptism war the Holy Grail leading to salvation, Jesus would have said: He that is not baptized will be condemned. He didn't.

17 Your argument collapses because you keep assuming what you need to prove. You assume: water baptism = salvation, water baptism = Spirit reception, water baptism = new birth, laying on of hands = only transfers power, not Spirit, - Luke's narration = doctrine, Paul's statements don't mean what they say. None of that is in the text. You're reading your doctrine into Scripture, not out of it.

18 If baptism were the essential act that causes salvation, Paul could never say: Christ sent me NOT to baptize. I thank God I baptized none of you. Did you receive the Spirit when you believed? Having believed, you were sealed with the Spirit. “We are justified by faith apart from works. Your system forces Paul to contradict Paul. Mine lets Paul speak for himself.
I have numbered each of your statements above to try to keep this post within its 1000 word boundary.
#0 Yes I did deal with the actual text in each scripture in context but you refuse to accept what the text say but rather give it your own bias.

#1-5 It is not my saying but what is actually recorded in the the bible It is Gods word I am repeating. It is your faulty misuse of scripture that is the problem. Paul never said he was not sent to teach baptism he was saying his main goal is to preach the gspel his fellow followers could and did do the baptizing. You just want to make it fit your bias so bad you are not following the biblical reasoning given you by scriptures. You look up all the times in Acts that the gospel is preached it always ends with them being baptized in the name of Christ and Paul is no exception he did baptize some you keep saying he did not but he said he did.

#6 I have no ideal how you think this is pertaining to the discussion so no response to the deflect.

#7-10 No it is your theology that forces Paul to contradict Christ .Paul preaches the gospel and as in his epistle to the Corinthians He says that he teaches baptism just doesn't do the baptizing but has other do it for him. In # 8 you really went off into left field. "Paul's reason for not baptizing PROVES baptism is not the gospel. He didn’t want people saying they were baptized in Paul’s name." This makes no sense. It in no way proves baptism is not part of the gospel . Paul said the reason we are to be baptized in the name of Christ is because of the cross. The cross is the gospel. Paul was correcting a bickering as seen in verses 10 -16 you refuse to accept the biblical teaching . It is my view but the biblical text saying that. You said " If baptism were the moment sins are washed away & the Spirit is received, then Paul refusing to baptize people would be: refusing to help with getting them saved, refusing to help in getting their sins removed, refusing to help them receive the Spirit & refusing to obey Christ." this is your understanding not mine nor the biblical text . Paul is not refusing to have them baptized or refusing not to do it himself he just chose to have someone else to do it to keep down the bickering read the text my brother read the text. It is you that is way out in left field on this.
Yours takes out the response to join Jesus in his death as Paul makes clear as can be in Roans 6:3 when you were baptized you were baptized into his death. Paul's own words not mine when you were baptized into Jesus Christ you were baptized into his death. what were you baptized into His death the cross the gospel. Your rejecting this biblical fact will not change it for it is the true word of God. It will change the road you walk but not the truth as recorded.

# 11 Paul may not have had recorded the exact words as Acts 2:38 but in 1 Corinthians 1:13 the baptism he is talking about is that of Acts 2:38 just as the baptism he is talking about in Romans 6 and Galatians 3:27 and Colossians 2:11-13 and so forth.

# 12 "the hearing of faith" what do you think the hearing of faith is? It is the gospel they were saved by hearing the gospel call and obeying it see Romans 6:17,18

# 13 you have failed to see what scripture does teach again you have God teaching one group of people being saved by one way while the other group of people were saved by another means. That my friend makes God a respecter of people and is totally against the biblical teaching. Your way reeks of man made doctrine. It totally goes against Gods nature.

# 14 It is you that totally does not understand Act 19. I have already shown you with scripture your error and will not rehash this with you because you refuse to open your eyes to what the text really does say. I will say The text did say that they were baptized in the name of Christ after Paul corrected the error in Apollo's teaching whether it was Paul that did it or someone else with him Paul did have i done. And again You really need to study when the indwelling spirit is given and why he laying on of hands is done for they are two separate events entirely and has two separate functions. I alread went over that so go back and read it in former post.

#15 See #14 if you want to do a separate srudy on this we can but not here I have covered it in previous posting go back and read it there.

# 16 again already dealt with and not going to rehash if you rejected it once you will again just go back and reread it there.

#17 not going to rehash you reject all the scriptures that show you are in left field if they haven't opened your eyes to the truth no more rehashing them will for I showed you what the scriptures say and you reject them for your bias.

#18 again already dealt with over and over and you reject the scriptual teaching by twisting them around to make it appear to say just the opposite of what it really says. If your reasoning is really that far off ther is nothing I can share to help you see the truth of scripture so I will no longer rehash this with you.
 
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It obviously wasn't unlawful at the time because God said he had cleansed the gentiles. Not was going to; already had. And that happened at the cross

This exchange is worthless. You don't arguing from Scripture but from assumptions, timelines you invented, claims that contradict Peter, Luke & the OT.

Clearly you're not interested in Peter's own words, Luke's inspired narrative & OT laws Peter clearly says he was still obeying. I'm here to debate Scripture, not speculation. FD
 
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This exchange is worthless. You don't arguing from Scripture but from assumptions, timelines you invented, claims that contradict Peter, Luke & the OT.

Clearly you're not interested in Peter's own words, Luke's inspired narrative & OT laws Peter clearly says he was still obeying. I'm here to debate Scripture, not speculation. FD

What I'm not interested in is your interpretations through a mid-Acts dispensationalism lens (or whatever flavor of dispensationalism it is that you follow) that twist and distort what scripture says
 
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It obviously wasn't unlawful at the time because God said he had cleansed the gentiles. Not was going to; already had. And that happened at the cross
This exchange is worthless. You don't arguing from Scripture but from assumptions, timelines you invented, claims that contradict Peter, Luke & the OT.

Clearly you're not interested in Peter's own words, Luke's inspired narrative & OT laws Peter clearly says he was still obeying. I'm here to debate Scripture, not speculation. FD

Just for the record, God said he had already cleansed what Peter thought in his ignorance was unclean. So Peter was observing a law that only existed in his mind. The only logical explanation for this is that God cleansed gentiles at the cross, which the baptism of the Ethiopian eunuch bears out.

And the voice spoke unto him again the second time, What God has cleansed, don't call profane. Acts 10:15
 
Just for the record, God said he had already cleansed what Peter thought in his ignorance was unclean. So Peter was observing a law that only existed in his mind. The only logical explanation for this is that God cleansed gentiles at the cross, which the baptism of the Ethiopian eunuch bears out.

And the voice spoke unto him again the second time, What God has cleansed, don't call profane. Acts 10:15

I sure agreee.

To go a step fauther, in the first message Acts 2:39 Peter said it's for "ALL".

Acts 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

To me since Peter said it was for all, it was JESUS through the Holy Ghost telling him what to say. Acts 1:2.

Peter may not even known at that time, and in Acts 10 if JESUS didn't fill them with the Holy Ghost first would Peter have baptized them?

GOD BLESS YOU.
 
Peter may not even known at that time, and in Acts 10 if JESUS didn't fill them with the Holy Ghost first would Peter have baptized them?

No. That was the reason God did it that way, to get his attention and make it undeniable to him what he had to do. That was something that God had planned from the beginning, and the facts that he gave Peter a vision 3 times and then poured out the spirit on Cornelius and friends, as had been done on Peter at Pentecost, makes it clear that it was something of crucial importance to God.
 
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My gospel (Rom 2:16; 16:25). Not from man but by direct revelation from Jesus Christ (Gal 1:11–12)
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You're reversing the biblical hierarchy. Doctrine comes from the apostles' teaching, not Luke’s narration. Acts describes events; Paul defines doctrine.

Treating Acts as the foundation & Paul as commentary is the exact opposite of how the New Testament is structured.
Both Peter and Paul received the same gospel directly from Jesus. And, yes, Acts describes events. And those events reveal doctrinal truth.
 
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The disciples were already baptizing in Jesus' name while he was alive, so you think they themselves weren't baptized in his name then? Ridiculous

When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John, (Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples,) John 4:1-2
Actually water baptism in the name of Jesus did not begin until Pentecost. We know this to be true since Jesus prophesied that repentance and remission of sin would be preached in His name in all nations and would begin in Jerusalem. (Luke 24:47)

No one, including John the Baptist, knew the name of the soon coming Messiah when water baptism was introduced. As such, one can conclude water baptism was administered void of any actual connection to Jesus Himself. It was only after Jesus' death, burial and resurrection that the purpose of being water baptized in the name of Jesus could be completely understood.