Misanthrope much?
Oh yes, much. Much too much.
But the all time champion is without a doubt @Magenta
Can We Really Exercise Free Will?
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Oh yes, much. Much too much.
But the all time champion is without a doubt @Magenta
He is the god of this world. It is Satan's thinking that the unregenerate and believers who walk after the flesh run with thinking how clever they are. Why do you think we are told not to love the world?
God knows who will not believe when given the opportunity to believe.
Why given the opportunity?
Because the Cross took care of all things needed for all men to be saved.
It is that simple.
(the Devil is in the details)
The Mystical Union of Christ (the Head) and His Body (His Church)
The purpose for this post and the next one is to demonstrate that salvation through the sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit (2Thes 2:13; 1Pet 1:2) is inextricably linked to the doctrine of the Mystical Union, and that this sanctification (consecration) also finds its roots in the OT. In this initial post, we'll look briefly at the doctrine of the Mystical Union and then in the next one show how sanctification/consecration logically and biblically proceeds from this organic union that is indivisible.
Louis Berkhof said in part re this union:
IT IS A TRANSFORMING UNION. By this union believers are changed into the image of Christ according to his human nature. What Christ effects in His people is in a sense a replica or reproduction of what took place with Him. Nor only objectively, but also in a subjective sense they suffer, bear the cross, are crucified, die, and are raised in newness of life, with Christ. They share in a measure the experiences of their Lord, Matt. 16:24; Rom. 6:5; Gal. 2:20; Col. 1:24; 2:12; 3:1; I Pet. 4:13.
Jesus taught this organic union:
John 15:5
5 "I am the vine ; you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing
Note carefully that the Head directs the Body! There is no synergism in the above passage. No tails wagging the dog!
Here are a few more examples to add to Berkhof's:
Just as Christ was baptized into one Spirit (Mk 1:10), likewise the Body was as well (1Cor 12:12-13).
Just as the presence of Christ signified the closeness of the kingdom (Mat 4:17), likewise the presence of his disciples when preaching the gospel Judea also signified that closeness (Lk 10:9, 11).
What people do to God's Body, they do to the Head (Mat 25:34-43).
What people don't to God's Body, they don't do to the Head (Mat 25:44-46).
Just as the Father loves the Son due to his faithfulness (Jn 10:17), likewise the Father loves the Body because they keep Jesus' commands and love Him (Jn 14:21).
The joy that was always in the Head is also conferred to the Body (Jn 17:13).
The Father's love for the Head is also for and in the Body (Jn 17:26).
All these examples, I'm sure, are but the tip of the iceberg. An entire book could probably be written containing many more such examples. And this Soteriological Doctrine is absolutely devastating to all soteriological heresies (FWT, Arminianism, Pelagianism, etc.) because it's a Theological Principle that overarchs all Soteriology.
In the next post which will be forthcoming on another day, I will demonstrate how this Theological Principle proves the truthfulness of 1Pet 1:2 and 2Thes 2:13.
It was asked of CV5 the day before yesterday. But that's okay...don't trouble yourself; for I know I would never get an honest answer from you. For example CV thinks that because the ancient Hebrews freely chose with their "freewill" to keep the first Passover in Egypt, it was their freewill that ultimately delivered them from Pharaoh.
Their freewill allowed God to deliver them from Pharaoh in a manner that angels watching would understand.
We keep forgetting. The life of men is being portrayed before angels who are learning about themselves from the situations men go through. Man on earth is a teaching tool of God's, to educate the angels with, not just man himself.
Because you think God does irrational, stupid absurd things like sinners would do. God would give fish to someone He knows hates it!
God's holy and perfect character does not allow him to do anything irrational, stupid or absurd.Also, the Gospel reveals everything that sinners need to know about God, Christ and themselves.
And there are many explicit scriptures that teach us who the beneficiaries are for Christ's atoning Cross work. There's not one scripture that teaches that Jesus died for the wicked.
Moreover, your patently absurd theory changes the definition of Saving Grace. Grace is the bestowal of divine beneficial favor upon the undeserving. However, since you don't believe there's any efficacy to God's grace and the vast majority of the world rejects the gospel even after they've been "enabled" and made "free"
, then your brand of ineffectual grace bestows upon Gospel rejecters zero benefits and gives them only what they deserve: CONDEMNATION! The devil has your head under his feet and you're thoroughly blinded to the truth and to the fact that your soteriology presents way too many theological difficulties to overcome.
First, how did their "freewill" allow (grant permission to God?) to deliver them? And why is God alone, all throughout scripture, given 100% credit, for redeeming the ancient Hebrews? Give me one scripture text that praises the ancient Hebrews for lending God a helping hand during His rescue mission.
So...it's expected and commanded of the Body of Christ to not love the world, while you FWers tell us that their Head loves the world to death.
Because you think God does irrational, stupid absurd things like sinners would do. God would give fish to someone He knows hates it!
Actually... What said was quite rational.
It was you who became irrational about my rationality...
......
They are not granting "permission."
They are revealing they have the ability to receive what God wants to give.
Your slant is so strange.
So...it's expected and commanded of the Body of Christ to not love the world, while you FWers tell us that their Head loves the world to death.
Before you were saved you were of the world.
The Devil never knows who he is going to lose next.
When Saul was persecuting the Church, killing Christians and putting others in jail?
Satan was very happy with the one who was about to be renamed Paul.
You mean to say?
Before he was saved?
That Paul was not a part of the world???
You said the heart WILL not seek God because it CANNOT. Will not and cannot are two different phenomenons. Using the phrase "WILL NOT" assumes we have a will that can either resist or yield to God's will but that (for reasons of our own) we voluntarily refuse to change our minds. On the other hand the idea that we CANNOT yield means we are UNABLE to change our mind due to some impairment, defect or disability. Your idea is that the person's will must be changed by a unilateral imposition of divine power - rather like the demons were known to take over a possessed person's speech and behavior. This is not how the Father operates. Instead, He prefers a willing surrender which is why He sent the Spirit to us
The Bible says "And when he (The Holy Spirit) comes, he will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment (John 16:8) The word translated "convict" is ἐλέγχω which means: to convict, refute, confute, generally with a suggestion of the shame of the person convicted. The Spirit applies the work of Christ to us by uncovering our personal guilt, validating Jesus’ perfect righteousness, and warning of coming judgment. This inner conviction is indispensable in salvation; without it, the gospel remains information rather than transformation. However, it is also possible for human beings to resist the Spirit influence and harden their hearts. Thus the Spirit's influence is not irresistible
You also said: ....how can those who have rejected God can have anything of His in them to give hope? His word is our hope, the unsaved have no word of God.
We have to do our part to get the word in them by preaching the gospel which has the power to save anyone. If they are momentarily without hope this, too can be used to motivate them to change.
Exactly. The issue at hand is Satan's lies, and disproving them (to everyone including the angels) and rebuking Satan and releasing his grip on these political prisoners.
And crucial to this resolution is proving the fact that man is capable of making a free will choice when offered life.
Jordon ... Magenta clearly stated that I "entered this thread breathing out lies and false accusations". I have now provided the first 25 posts I submitted in this thread as well as the first post I submitted directly to Magenta.
I did this so that others who read her false accusation can determine for themselves whether Magenta's claim contains a shred of truth or not.
Apparently you believe her claim and you are free to do so. Others, however, may disagree with Magenta and with you ... I certainly do because what she stated never happened.
You tell me where I lied or falsely accused her (or anyone else for that matter).
You want to stand with Magenta in this whole fiasco of her own imagination? ... have at it.
I have every right to clarify that I never "entered this thread breathing lies" ... I never "falsely accused" Magenta (or anyone else for that matter) as claimed by Magenta.
Jordon ... Magenta stated "God hates a false witness who gives false testimony" and I asked her about her "false witness" and "false testimony" because she claimed I "entered this thread breathing out lies and false accusations" when that never happened and Magenta knows her claim reeks of "false testimony" by a "false witness".Jordon said:
Magenta gives as good as she gets ... if Magenta can't stand the heat, she'd best get out of the kitchen (or at the very least quit stirring the pot).Jordon said:
.
Only you and your ilk would give someone something that you know they would hate and reject. And you would pat yourself on the back for thinking how sweet, compassionate and smart you are.
When it comes to God's ineffectual REJECTING grace, you FWer's conveniently downplay God's prescience.nope ... I am calling you out on what you clearly stated to me and about me ...
You know ... and Magenta knows ... you have yet to provide factual support for claims made.
Says the person who entered this thread breathing out lies and false accusations, then talking about how Christians ought to behave!
Don't expect me to try to find all your lies.
Don't expect me to try to find all your lies.
Here's what I replied to you in response, Magenta:
first five posts submitted by me in this thread ...
Post 1,958
Post 1,963
Post 2,004
Post 2,057
Post 2,066
Please let me know which post submitted by me supports your claim that I "entered this thread breathing out lies and false accusations" ... otherwise your accusation is just as empty as your claim that "free willers think they are clever to present mothers loving and caring for their children as "evil."" ... the claim for which you have provided absolutely zero factual support ... although Jordon has made a valiant effort on your behalf.
p.s. just in case you can't support your claim in the first 5 posts submitted by me ... I'll provide the next 5 posts in the next day or two ... or, if you'd rather just apologize for having made an error concerning my entering into the thread "breathing out lies and false accusations" ... that's another option ... up to you ... although silence on your part speaks volumes ... just sayin'
Post 1,958
Post 1,963
Post 2,004
Post 2,057
Post 2,066
Please let me know which post submitted by me supports your claim that I "entered this thread breathing out lies and false accusations" ... otherwise your accusation is just as empty as your claim that "free willers think they are clever to present mothers loving and caring for their children as "evil."" ... the claim for which you have provided absolutely zero factual support ... although Jordon has made a valiant effort on your behalf.
p.s. just in case you can't support your claim in the first 5 posts submitted by me ... I'll provide the next 5 posts in the next day or two ... or, if you'd rather just apologize for having made an error concerning my entering into the thread "breathing out lies and false accusations" ... that's another option ... up to you ... although silence on your part speaks volumes ... just sayin'
I believe the reason you said "Don't expect me to try to find all your lies" is because you know you cannot produce even one. You have yet to provide one single post submitted by me wherein I lied. As I said "silence on your part speaks volumes". Think about that, Magenta, as you contemplate your statement:
God hates a false witness who gives false testimony.
.
But from the git go of Exodus, the Hebrews rebelled against God and He still RESCUED them! The real turning point for the Hebrews is when their backs were against the Red Sea and the Egyptians were bearing down hard on them Plus God never made his rescue mission conditional upon their ability to receive anything from him.
Again, provide me ONE biblical text that doesn't give God all the glory and praise for redeeming His chosen people from the hands of Pharaoh.
What part of "rescue" don't you understand?