Pisteuo, and John 3:16

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Here is Mark 16:16.

1) With the mistranslated words "believe",
"He that "believes" and is baptized shall be saved."

2) With the correct translation of "pisteuo"
"He that personally surrenders to Him living a life inspired by such surrender and is baptized shall be saved."
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2ndTimeIsTheCharm
Watchman22 said:
In your understanding, it's a requirement for the completed written word to be available to the one being called out by the Father?
Click to expand...

Hope this answers your question ????????:unsure:

The completed written Word is available to all who want to read it but only those who have accepted the Father's Drawing can accept the Gospel so the right Faith is inbirthed in them -----

Without the right Faith you cannot be saved -----no even please God according to scripture

Watchman22 said:
And that includes all people throughout history, even before the written word existed?[/QUOTE]

The Word always Existed ----the Word is Jesus the Son ------the Word was in the Father ----the Father spoke the Word to the people He Himself drew to do His tasks in the Old Testament -----so the Spoken word always existed ---so Christ's Faith always existed --

then the written word was put down by God speaking the Word (who is Jesus )to the People who are the authors of the scriptures ----Hence all Scripture is God inspired ------

Hebrews 11 -----
7 By faith Noah, when warned about things not yet seen, in holy fear built an ark to save his family. By his faith he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness that is in keeping with faith.

All people in the Old Testament that God Called on had the right Faith inbirthed in them to accept what God was saying as Truth ====and they put their Faith into action by obeying the Word spoken to them ------it is no different today -----Jesus is the Word and inbirths the right Faith in us to be saved

Christ's Faith always requires a POSITIVE RESPONSE -----Faith In Action


Watchman22 said:
And where does the Vines Greek dictionary definition come in ?
Click to expand...

What definition are you speaking of ?????????
Click to expand...
 
Watchman22 said:
This is where the damage avails itself, with respect.

What makes this conversation so difficult is that the state we are in when we are first being called out by the Father is different than the state were in after we are His.

You said that saving Faith is "trusting in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ." That saving faith response your standing on can't by itself move us forward in the salvation process "at the beginning ". But, it could be and should be "a part " of our life of faithing or pisteuo, "A personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender " AFTER " we are His. Before we are His, when we are simply being called out by the Father, Jesus, His word, and His promises, are not ours to trust in yet.

The words trusting, reliance upon, committed to, being committed unto, are all individual parts of the core definition which is "a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender. "

If I'm being called out by the Father, and i respond with true pisteuo, knowing anything about Jesus or His word at that point isn't a requirement. And for most people in history that couldn't be a requirement. But a personal surrender to the caller and a life inspired by such surrender is a requirement and the correct one.

Understanding this is vital to those being called out, which I understand is everyone here in this forum.
Click to expand...
It sounds to me like you are confusing justification with ongoing sanctification
 
mailmandan said:
It sounds to me like you are confusing justification with ongoing sanctification
Click to expand...

Those would be two different words.

Justification is to seen as just like Christ.

Sanctification is to be separated out from our sinful nature's.

Both of these conditions are simultaneously being fulfilled after our initial surrendered life has been tested, accepted and sealed. And as long as we are continuously surrendering ourselves to Him and living a life inspired by such surrender it will continue. Faith, or the surrendered life stops, everything stops. Not all at once, like melting snow.
 
studentoftheword said:
Hope this answers your question ????????:unsure:

The completed written Word is available to all who want to read it but only those who have accepted the Father's Drawing can accept the Gospel so the right Faith is inbirthed in them -----

Without the right Faith you cannot be saved -----no even please God according to scripture
Click to expand...

Have you checked out the "rediscovering pisteuo" thread? Or the "salvation process" thread?

There probably a few pages back, I think they'll interest you.
 
Watchman22 said:
Those would be two different words.

Justification is to seen as just like Christ.

Sanctification is to be separated out from our sinful nature's.

Both of these conditions are simultaneously being fulfilled after our initial surrendered life has been tested, accepted and sealed. And as long as we are continuously surrendering ourselves to Him and living a life inspired by such surrender it will continue. Faith, or the surrendered life stops, everything stops. Not all at once, like melting snow.
Click to expand...
Justification is a one time event (Romans 5:1) and progressive sanctification is an ongoing process. (1 Thessalonians 4:3,4) Genuine faith continues and is not some shallow, temporary belief that has no root, produces no fruit and withers away.
 
mailmandan said:
Justification is a one time event (Romans 5:1) and progressive sanctification is an ongoing process. (1 Thessalonians 4:3,4) Genuine faith continues and is not some shallow, temporary belief that has no root, produces no fruit and withers away.
Click to expand...

I think we're saying the same thing in two different ways. Justification may happen in a one time event, but it's an ongoing condition. Same with sanctification.

We agree on the boundaries of what saving faith is. Can we agree on how the Vines defines it? "A personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender "?
 
Watchman22 said:
I think we're saying the same thing in two different ways. Justification may happen in a one time event, but it's an ongoing condition. Same with sanctification.

We agree on the boundaries of what saving faith is. Can we agree on how the Vines defines it? "A personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender "?
Click to expand...
What you are teaching is that faith alone is not sufficient for salvation.
One must also be baptized by a third party and one must live a surrendered life.
You are teaching that a God that created all is not strong enough to save a person by his own power, but He needs a third person to dunk you under water and needs you, by your own power to be surrendered to Him.
You are adding works to salvation, plain and simply rejecting the truth.
If that is what you are basing your eternal life on, I am very concerned for your standing before God.
 
Watchman22 said:
I think we're saying the same thing in two different ways. Justification may happen in a one time event, but it's an ongoing condition. Same with sanctification.

We agree on the boundaries of what saving faith is. Can we agree on how the Vines defines it? "A personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender "?
Click to expand...
A personal surrender to Him happens the moment we place our faith in Jesus Christ for salvation. We turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan to God and receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Him. (Acts 26:18) A life inspired by such surrender takes us into the sanctification process and producing fruit/good works.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Howdy
mailmandan said:
A personal surrender to Him happens the moment we place our faith in Jesus Christ for salvation. We turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan to God and receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Him. (Acts 26:18) A life inspired by such surrender takes us into the sanctification process and producing fruit/good works.
Click to expand...
I was not raised in church, was never taught about God, sin, salvation.
I was saved at the age of 18 after attending a local church for about 4 weeks after I left home.
The Holy Spirit convicted me that night after hearing the Gospel preached for those 4 weeks.
I by faith trusted Jesus as my Savior. I was told I needed to be baptized as the first step of living for God and I did so.
I had no idea what it meant to surrender to Jesus as Lord. It took many more weeks of being taught and the convicting of the Holy Spirit and studying of the Word that I began to understand a little at a time.
My hope for eternal life is based completely on Jesus. He paid my sin debt on the cross. There is nothing I could do to merit His forgiveness. It is totally on what Jesus did. PERIOD.
My becoming surrendered to Him has been an ongoing process for the last 64 years.
He is the only one to judge my progress.
I am deeply troubled by what some are basing their eternal life on.
I am concerned when I hear people say they trust in their baptism, their works, or anything thing other than simple faith in Jesus for eternal life.
 
Howdy said:
What you are teaching is that faith alone is not sufficient for salvation.
One must also be baptized by a third party and one must live a surrendered life.
You are teaching that a God that created all is not strong enough to save a person by his own power, but He needs a third person t
o dunk you under water and needs you, by your own power to be surrendered to Him.
You are adding works to salvation, plain and simply rejecting the truth.
If that is what you are basing your eternal life on, I am very concerned for your standing before God.
Click to expand...

I just wrote Mark 16:16 as it was written in the Kjv. Your problem is with mark not me.

If faith alone is defined as a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender, then we're good. If you have any other understanding of what Faith and faithing are your co cern is misplaced.
 
mailmandan said:
A personal surrender to Him happens the moment we place our faith in Jesus Christ for salvation. We turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan to God and receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Him. (Acts 26:18) A life inspired by such surrender takes us into the sanctification process and producing fruit/good works.
Click to expand...

A personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender IS faith.

Lets back up.
Define saving faith for me.
 
Watchman22 said:
I just wrote Mark 16:16 as it was written in the Kjv. Your problem is with mark not me.

If faith alone is defined as a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender, then we're good. If you have any other understanding of what Faith and faithing are your co cern is misplaced.
Click to expand...
So you were saved AFTER you were dunked in water and SURRENDERED to Jesus, not before.
Is that a correct understanding of what you believe?
 
Howdy said:
So you were saved AFTER you were dunked in water and SURRENDERED to Jesus, not before.
Is that a correct understanding of what you believe?
Click to expand...

i never gave an understanding on baptism. this thread is on faith and faithing. what those things are.
 
Watchman22---------- I read your thread on
Rediscovering pisteuo.

All I see you doing is playing with words ---and just confusing yourself and others about what the Vines says as apposed to Strong's and they both mean the same thing ----

Noah surrendered his life to God when he built an Ark when there was no rain in sight through his Believing God ---------Abraham surrendered his life to God when left his homeland and had no idea where he was going but trusted and surrendered to God's will -and Abraham was willing to kill his only Son for God ---that is quite the show of surrender in my view ----

you say ----here----

The mistranslation, John 3:16.
"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever "believes" in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life. "

I say -------this is not a mistranslation of John 3:16 --as you say here ----as if you believe --that is -trust in and have confidence in Christ you have surrendered your life to Him ------your surrender takes place when you Truly Believe -----



I say ------so where did you get this translation Below from -----

Please post the Bible you got this Translation from --------

OR ----- is this just you just stating this is the right Translation yourself ------as per the Vines meaning of Believe ----

The correct translation, John 3:16.
"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever "personally surrenders their life to Him and lives a life inspired by such surrender", should not perish, but have everlasting life."


You say here

"personally surrenders their life to Him and lives a life inspired by such surrender"should not perish, but have everlasting life."

I say -------------Well I certainly disagree with the underlined statement -in red---as not one of us will ever ---ever constantly live a life in total surrender to God as our Flesh is weak and we will miss the Mark at times --so your surrender will go down the tubes in those times ------so your a little off the rails here with that in my view ----as not one of us can be saved by what your saying here --which is nonsense -----

We will be able to surrender more to God if we Mature in our Faith Walk and rely on His Grace to help us --but many will die in their Carnal state and their surrender to God's will ----will be limited -----

There is only ONE MAN who Totally Surrendered to God and that Was His SON ___JESUS CHRIST -----
 
studentoftheword said:
Watchman22---------- I read your thread on
Rediscovering pisteuo.

All I see you doing is playing with words ---and just confusing yourself and others about what the Vines says as apposed to Strong's and they both mean the same thing ----

Noah surrendered his life to God when he built an Ark when there was no rain in sight through his Believing God ---------Abraham surrendered his life to God when left his homeland and had no idea where he was going but trusted and surrendered to God's will -and Abraham was willing to kill his only Son for God ---that is quite the show of surrender in my view ----

you say ----here----

The mistranslation, John 3:16.
"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever "believes" in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life. "

I say -------this is not a mistranslation of John 3:16 --as you say here ----as if you believe --that is -trust in and have confidence in Christ you have surrendered your life to Him ------your surrender takes place when you Truly Believe -----



I say ------so where did you get this translation Below from -----

Please post the Bible you got this Translation from --------

OR ----- is this just you just stating this is the right Translation yourself ------as per the Vines meaning of Believe ----

The correct translation, John 3:16.
"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever "personally surrenders their life to Him and lives a life inspired by such surrender", should not perish, but have everlasting life."


You say here

"personally surrenders their life to Him and lives a life inspired by such surrender"should not perish, but have everlasting life."

I say -------------Well I certainly disagree with the underlined statement -in red---as not one of us will ever ---ever constantly live a life in total surrender to God as our Flesh is weak and we will miss the Mark at times --so your surrender will go down the tubes in those times ------so your a little off the rails here with that in my view ----as not one of us can be saved by what your saying here --which is nonsense -----

We will be able to surrender more to God if we Mature in our Faith Walk and rely on His Grace to help us --but many will die in their Carnal state and their surrender to God's will ----will be limited -----

There is only ONE MAN who Totally Surrendered to God and that Was His SON ___JESUS CHRIST -----
Click to expand...

I'll bump the rediscovering pisteuo thread.

Show me exactly what "facts" you disagree with.
 
Watchman22 said:
Show me exactly what "facts" you disagree with.
Click to expand...

I showed you what I disagree with ---read my post ---and give me the Bible where you got your Translation of John 3:16 which says
"personally surrenders their life to Him and lives a life inspired by such surrender"should not perish, but have everlasting life."
 
studentoftheword said:
I showed you what I disagree with ---read my post ---and give me the Bible where you got your Translation of John 3:16 which says
"personally surrenders their life to Him and lives a life inspired by such surrender"should not perish, but have everlasting life."
Click to expand...

I was clear, I used the definition of pisteuo given in the Vines to highlight what the Greek is communicating.

You seem to just disagree with the Vines?

You said in your reply that "truly believing " is the same as a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender. And then at the bottom half you said you don't agree with a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender.

Which is it?
 
Watchman22 said:
I was clear, I used the definition of pisteuo given in the Vines to highlight what the Greek is communicating.

this is what the Vines says about Belief --which is God's Faith ---it says ---that Faith LEADS you to a transformed conduct -----

In essence, Vine emphasizes that faith in the Bible is:

Relational: Trusting God personally.
Active: Leading to transformed conduct.
Content-filled: Acknowledging revealed truth.
More than Emotion: A deep conviction and commitment.

Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words defines biblical "faith" (Greek pistis) primarily as a firm conviction, a trust, and a loyal adherence to God/Christ, encompassing a firm persuasion, a personal surrender, and a conduct inspired by that trust, not just intellectual assent.


This is your Posting of this scripture ----where your adding this to being saved -----lives a life inspired by such surrender", should not perish, but have everlasting life."

The correct translation, John 3:16.

"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever "personally surrenders their life to Him and lives a life inspired by such surrender", should not perish, but have everlasting life."

I say ----------This is not what the Vines is saying -----

Your saying here ------that you must live a life inspired by such surrender to be saved ---and that is False Doctrine and that is not what the Vines is saying at all -----

Your putting your own spin on a very important scripture and making it False ---here

lives a life inspired by such surrender", should not perish, but have everlasting life."

I say --------this is what the Vines says about living a surrendered life

Active: Leading to transformed conduct.

You get saved by Christ's Faith which comes from hearing the Gospel ----and your surrender comes when you believe in Jesus Christ and receive Him into your heart ----

-and then you work on surrendering more of your will to God's will by obeying His word and Christ's faith it into right action -----
Click to expand...
 

Just to let you know, I have both the Vines and Strongs texts. Everything i say comes from the Vines is word for word.

I'll reply to your last post in the morning if your willing. And keep the insinuating to a minimum, I'm aware of the importance of this.

Are you willing to continue?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back