The Kerygma - God's Requirement for Salvation

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Ehhhh...
Are you a pessimist ?
Nah. Just a realist. Over 8 billion people in the world currently. You could possibly get 50% of them to agree on something if it was multiple choice with only two choices. Even then someone is going to deny answering or write in “c”. He made us to be different. It is what it is. Makes it more interesting to me. Imagine how boring it would be if we all just agreed on everything. Everyone eating the same food, driving the same car, wearing the same clothes. Out of billions there’s not two the same. Pretty amazing.
 
Having read your previous giant post and I was puzzled by what you said.

I regarded everything else in the scripture as of secondary importance.

You cannot be reconciled to God except by Jesus Christ and Him alone.

You are then given the Holy Spirit by Jesus to enable you to live the Christian life.

Christianity; the belief, trust, that faith in Jesus is the primary doctrine of Christianity.

The gospel and the gospel alone will be the cause of your salvation, and nothing else.

1 Corinthians 2:2
For I determined to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ, and Him crucified.
Who taught this ?

“Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves. Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others. Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: but made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: and being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Do all things without murmurings and disputings: that ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world; holding forth the word of life; that I may rejoice in the day of Christ, that I have not run in vain, neither laboured in vain.”
‭‭Philippians‬ ‭2:3-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

its odd how some people find a single verse and then try to use it to reject everything around it . It’s like there’s no capacity to hold any other verse when people do that . Paul was writing complete long letters filled with doctrinal teaching regarding Christ and his kingdom theres way more than “Jesus was crucified “

that’s certainly Gods atonement for mans sin and is essential to be saved but that doesn’t then replace what he said before he died his word and blood go together they are a covenant
 
nighttwister

If all God is seeking is for a person to say YES, why do we all have to go through this hard life. Why not just take the person away?

Read Hebrew 11, the faith chapter, look at all those folks had to go through -- what was all that about if all God wants is a quick yes??

Sorry I see no logical reason for a 2 second yes and its a done deal.

So would you disagree with the following paragraph written by Paul?

Ephesians 2:4-6
But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were
dead in our wrongdoings, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and
raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus.

Looks as though that simple "yes" triggered more than you can imagine.

Done deal.

Romans 10:13
For everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.

How could that be possible?
 
Nah. Just a realist. Over 8 billion people in the world currently. You could possibly get 50% of them to agree on something if it was multiple choice with only two choices. Even then someone is going to deny answering or write in “c”. He made us to be different. It is what it is. Makes it more interesting to me. Imagine how boring it would be if we all just agreed on everything. Everyone eating the same food, driving the same car, wearing the same clothes. Out of billions there’s not two the same. Pretty amazing.

They seem the same to me.

All drive and avoid any exercise where possible therefore they are all overweight.

They all eat too much, love fast food, and all avoid fasting.

All women dress up and all men dress down.

The young are notorious for following fashion and they all dress the same way.

They follow the same drum beat worldwide.
 
“You cannot be reconciled to God except by Jesus Christ and Him alone.”

yeah that doesn’t mean ignore what he said will save your soul it includes believing what he said. . Paul taught everything Jesus taught it’s a fact that can easily be shown in Paul’s writings and Jesus words . I understand many want to reject his word and say “ I’m saved by the cross “ but not everyone . Some people actually accept what Jesus the lord said will save them . I’m in that boat sorry if that upsets you

Now will you admit that the gospel is the primary doctrine or not?
 
Nah. Just a realist. Over 8 billion people in the world currently. You could possibly get 50% of them to agree on something if it was multiple choice with only two choices. Even then someone is going to deny answering or write in “c”. He made us to be different. It is what it is. Makes it more interesting to me. Imagine how boring it would be if we all just agreed on everything. Everyone eating the same food, driving the same car, wearing the same clothes. Out of billions there’s not two the same. Pretty amazing.

OK.
I seem to agree with you.
I also think there's too many humans on this planet. But what shall we do about that ????
 
They seem the same to me.

All drive and avoid any exercise where possible therefore they are all overweight.

They all eat too much, love fast food, and all avoid fasting.

All women dress up and all men dress down.

The young are notorious for following fashion and they all dress the same way.

They follow the same drum beat worldwide.
Coming from a guy that runs a lot, eats a strict diet, fasts on the regular I see many differences. You got me on the dressing down thing though. 😂 I dress for comfort and could care less for fashion or anything trendy for that matter. No matter where I’m going I will be wearing the same clothes. If there is a dress code, well then I probably don’t belong there. 😂
 
OK.
I seem to agree with you.
I also think there's too many humans on this planet. But what shall we do about that ????
Deport half to the moon 😂 joking obviously. There are approximately 15 billion acres of usable land on the earth. That’s 1.5 acres per person or 6 acres per average family. There’s another 15billion that could be made useable. I live on 2 and it is plenty enough land to grow what I need for my family to thrive. Doesn’t seem to be too many people around here. Now when I go to any big city such as NYC or Vancouver, BC, there are way too many people. I guess I’ll never understand why people want to live on top of each other. I honestly wouldn’t mind being Amish if I actually agreed with their beliefs and cared to learn Deutsh.
 
I guess I’ll never understand why people want to live on top of each other. I honestly wouldn’t mind being Amish if I actually agreed with their beliefs and cared to learn Deutsh.

Good gracious!
In German I would say: "Ich bin ein Berliner" (who said that by the way?)
Now; didn't God tell us to get a lot of kids and multiply and multiply ?
 
T
Now will you admit that the gospel is the primary doctrine or not?
The gospel is the entire doctrine not just the “ primary “

“The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God; Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, and saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:1, 14-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Paul never says “ the gospel is only Jesus dying and being. Raised “ he says “ I delivered first to you that Jesus died for our sins was buried and rose “

thats essential doctrine

We must believe Jesus died for our sins and rose for our justification to be saved

He taught many other things essential as well . my point is that doesn’t erase all the other true and essential doctrine ….. it’s all true and relevant
 
Who taught this ?

“Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves. Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others. Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: but made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: and being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Do all things without murmurings and disputings: that ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world; holding forth the word of life; that I may rejoice in the day of Christ, that I have not run in vain, neither laboured in vain.”
‭‭Philippians‬ ‭2:3-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

its odd how some people find a single verse and then try to use it to reject everything around it . It’s like there’s no capacity to hold any other verse when people do that . Paul was writing complete long letters filled with doctrinal teaching regarding Christ and his kingdom theres way more than “Jesus was crucified “

that’s certainly Gods atonement for mans sin and is essential to be saved but that doesn’t then replace what he said before he died his word and blood go together they are a covenant

What is even more odd is trying to fathom why people
T

The gospel is the entire doctrine not just the “ primary “

“The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God; Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, and saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:1, 14-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Paul never says “ the gospel is only Jesus dying and being. Raised “ he says “ I delivered first to you that Jesus died for our sins was buried and rose “

thats essential doctrine

We must believe Jesus died for our sins and rose for our justification to be saved

He taught many other things essential as well . my point is that doesn’t erase all the other true and essential doctrine ….. it’s all true and relevant

Someone not reading and understanding the text.

Now I make known to you, brothers and sisters, the gospel which I preached to you, which you also received,
in which you also stand, by which you also are saved, if you hold firmly to the word which I preached to you,
unless you believed in vain.

For I handed down to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our
sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according
to the Scriptures...(1 Corinthians 15)

Your seeing something that I must be missing?

by which you also are saved, if you hold firmly to the word which I preached to you

There is a secondary doctrine that I am aware of.

Matthew 7:12
In everything, therefore, treat people the same way you want them to treat you, for this is the Law and the Prophets.

Which is fulfilled by loving others as Christ loved us.

Here is where the confusion arises.

People tend to see that loving others saves them.

Only the gospel of Jesus Christ (Corinthians 1:15) when believed is the sole reason for salvation.
 
Deport half to the moon 😂 joking obviously. There are approximately 15 billion acres of usable land on the earth. That’s 1.5 acres per person or 6 acres per average family. There’s another 15billion that could be made useable. I live on 2 and it is plenty enough land to grow what I need for my family to thrive. Doesn’t seem to be too many people around here. Now when I go to any big city such as NYC or Vancouver, BC, there are way too many people. I guess I’ll never understand why people want to live on top of each other. I honestly wouldn’t mind being Amish if I actually agreed with their beliefs and cared to learn Deutsh.

You can go to Mars with Elon Musk.

Though the astrophysicist's disagree and say it's impossible and he is dreaming.

There are no coffee shops in the country so you must be delusional.
 
T

The gospel is the entire doctrine not just the “ primary “

“The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God; Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, and saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:1, 14-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Paul never says “ the gospel is only Jesus dying and being. Raised “ he says “ I delivered first to you that Jesus died for our sins was buried and rose “

thats essential doctrine

We must believe Jesus died for our sins and rose for our justification to be saved

He taught many other things essential as well . my point is that doesn’t erase all the other true and essential doctrine ….. it’s all true and relevant

I don't believe you stated the following line.

Paul never says “ the gospel is only Jesus dying and being. Raised"

That's exactly what Paul tells us in 1 Corinthians 15.
 
You can go to Mars with Elon Musk.

Though the astrophysicist's disagree and say it's impossible and he is dreaming.

There are no coffee shops in the country so you must be delusional.
I’ll stay right where I’m at. I have no desire to go more than about 36,000 feet away from earth and don’t care much for that.

We make our own coffee. It’s fairly easy especially with the ol Keureg. I try to avoid paying $4+ for a black coffee.
 
I have to admit, that I do not have at this very moment.

Okay, I will share a few more conclusions:

Thus, sinful humanity retains the image of God or moral free will, so every normal adult soul is able by faith to choose to seek salvation–or not (cf. Deut. 30:19). That is why Paul went “every Sabbath to the synagogue, trying to persuade Jews and Greeks” (Acts 18:4)! “He witnessed to them from morning till evening, explaining about the kingdom of God, and from the Law of Moses and from the Prophets he tried to persuade them about Jesus.” (Acts 28:23b) “Some were convinced by what he said, but others would not believe.” (Acts 28:24) “They disagreed among themselves and began to leave after Paul made this final statement: The Holy Spirit spoke the truth to your ancestors when he said through Isaiah the prophet, ‘You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving, for this people’s heart has become calloused.'” (Acts 28:25-27a, cf. 2Tim. 3:7)

Regarding the human heart, we can see that it is “deceitful… and beyond cure” (Jer. 17:9) when it becomes calloused (cf. Matt. 23:37), but the uncalloused heart (open mind) is enabled to seek salvation and find God (per Matt. 7:7 & Heb. 11:6). God’s enabling of seeking is not irresistible, it does not pry open a hardened heart, and it does not continue forever (Rom. 10:10-13, Heb. 3:12-19).

GRFS may be denoted by the use of the Greek word kerygma, meaning proclamation or preaching, referring to the good news (Gospel) concerning salvation to heaven and from a just hell (the DOD, cf. Rom. 1:16, Gal. 1:6-12, Col. 1:21-23). This Gospel was preached by Peter (in Acts 2:22-24) and summarized by Paul (in 1Cor. 15:1-8). The salient points include: Jesus was a man, accredited by God (to be Messiah), who died on a cross, but who was raised or resurrected from the dead. Messiah is the Way to heaven.

Are you still tracking?
 
Good gracious!
In German I would say: "Ich bin ein Berliner" (who said that by the way?)
Now; didn't God tell us to get a lot of kids and multiply and multiply ?

Yes, in the OT, but in the NT God told us to get Him spiritual children (Matt. 28:19-20).
 
What is even more odd is trying to fathom why people


Someone not reading and understanding the text.

Now I make known to you, brothers and sisters, the gospel which I preached to you, which you also received,
in which you also stand, by which you also are saved, if you hold firmly to the word which I preached to you,
unless you believed in vain.

For I handed down to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our
sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according
to the Scriptures...(1 Corinthians 15)

Your seeing something that I must be missing?

by which you also are saved, if you hold firmly to the word which I preached to you

There is a secondary doctrine that I am aware of.

Matthew 7:12
In everything, therefore, treat people the same way you want them to treat you, for this is the Law and the Prophets.

Which is fulfilled by loving others as Christ loved us.

Here is where the confusion arises.

People tend to see that loving others saves them.

Only the gospel of Jesus Christ (Corinthians 1:15) when believed is the sole reason for salvation.

“What is even more odd is trying to fathom why people


Someone not reading and understanding the text.”

yes like you’ve shown so clearly let’s show an example

“Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance? But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds: to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; but glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: for there is no respect of persons with God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:4-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Which part of that is “ secondary “ and not “ essential “ doctrine ?

let’s try a different version and see if it makes sense to you

“Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, forbearance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness is intended to lead you to repentance? But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed.

God “will repay each person according to what they have done.” To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.

( that’s not secondary knowledge ita about eternal life )

But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. For God does not show favoritism.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:4-11‬ ‭NIV‬‬

airs. Ot my fault that some of you reject what’s already written in Paul’s epistles and there’s way way way more than this verse

“For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭2:2‬ ‭

As is sinply sgoen like Roman’s 2 Paul’s teaching about eternal judgement or Roman’s 6 Paul’s teaching about baptism for remission of sins in Jesus name , or communion with the body and blood of Jesus also something your trying to make irrelevant but read what he says

“For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, ( same way he began the other place ) That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread: and when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.

( they just have made it secondary too look what Paul tells them )

For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come. Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭11:23-30‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it’s pretty crazy how people can read that , ignore it , then find a place where he’s talking about a different subject and all the sudden all that I just shared becomes “ secondary when what he’s written , anyone can understand it’s not secondary doctrine by reading it and allowing it the be true rather than rejecting it as some guy not understanding it lol it’s what Paul wrote all I’m doing is sharing it with you …. I can understand what Paul wrote there can you ?
 
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“What is even more odd is trying to fathom why people


Someone not reading and understanding the text.”

yes like you’ve shown so clearly let’s show an example

“Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance? But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds: to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; but glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: for there is no respect of persons with God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:4-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Which part of that is “ secondary “ and not “ essential “ doctrine ?

let’s try a different version and see if it makes sense to you

“Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, forbearance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness is intended to lead you to repentance? But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed.

God “will repay each person according to what they have done.” To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.

( that’s not secondary knowledge ita about eternal life )

But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. For God does not show favoritism.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:4-11‬ ‭NIV‬‬

airs. Ot my fault that some of you reject what’s already written in Paul’s epistles and there’s way way way more than this verse

“For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭2:2‬ ‭

As is sinply sgoen like Roman’s 2 Paul’s teaching about eternal judgement or Roman’s 6 Paul’s teaching about baptism for remission of sins in Jesus name , or communion with the body and blood of Jesus also something your trying to make irrelevant but read what he says

“For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, ( same way he began the other place ) That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread: and when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.

( they just have made it secondary too look what Paul tells them )

For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come. Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭11:23-30‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it’s pretty crazy how people can read that , ignore it , then find a place where he’s talking about a different subject and all the sudden all that I just shared becomes “ secondary when what he’s written , anyone can understand it’s not secondary doctrine by reading it and allowing it the be true rather than rejecting it as some guy not understanding it lol it’s what Paul wrote all I’m doing is sharing it with you …. I can understand what Paul wrote there can you ?

Yes, although I can sympathize, because it was only after participating in CC that I clarified my understanding that sanctification as well as conversion is through no meritorious faith. I guess my Baptist upbringing had not taught me that because they believed that once I was saved by faith working was fine.