The Kerygma - God's Requirement for Salvation

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
I do not follow your argument.

Where in Romans 4?

This paragraph below?

Romans 4:22-24
Therefore it was also credited to him as righteousness. Now not for his sake only was it written that it was
credited to him, but for our sake also, to whom it will be credited, to us who believe in Him who raised
Jesus our Lord from the dead
.

The entire chapter is on that subject, but the passage you cited is a good short version of Paul's argument
regarding credited or positional righteousness (Eph. 2:8-9).
His argument regarding actual or practical righteousness (Eph. 2:10) is found in passages such as Romans 12:1-15:14.
 
The entire chapter is on that subject, but the passage you cited is a good short version of Paul's argument
regarding credited or positional righteousness (Eph. 2:8-9).
His argument regarding actual or practical righteousness (Eph. 2:10) is found in passages such as Romans 12:1-15:14.

In respect of positional or practical righteousness which one really matters, regarding salvation?
 
“Everything else is of secondary importance and I mean everything else.”

Yeah I mean some might think to ignore stuff like this that’s in Paul’s writings and make it not important to themselves and anyone they can convince

Jesus

Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭7:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

paul

“Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things. But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things. And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God? Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

but glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: for there is no respect of persons with God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:1-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Others would never ignore such a repeated teaching and Important part of the doctrine but as they hear it again and again



James

“So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty. For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.”
‭‭James‬ ‭2:12-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

jesus

Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful. Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven: give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall be given into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭6:36-38‬ ‭

some do this with Gods word

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; and hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man. Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth;

they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.”( same thing paul said in Roman’s 2)
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24, 26-29‬ ‭

Others do this when they hear Gods word

He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.”
‭‭John‬ ‭12:48-50‬ ‭

There’s a lot of important doctrine that gets rejected to be honest but not everyone is willing to reject the word in order to make things fit thier own belief

This is scary to acknowledge when we’re being honest with our own self …… it it’s meant to be

“Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.”
‭‭Ecclesiastes‬ ‭12:13-14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It should bring godly fear

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Notice this is Paul writing to the church at Corinth ? And how he’s not talking only about Jesus dying on the cross ? But he’s talking about a biblical truth from the ot and gospel and nt epistles and visions.


“And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭22:12-14‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; “

There’s no reason for anyone to try to lessen the rest of scripture of course jesus being born living among us teaching healing doing miracles dying for sin being raised up again to life eternal and ascending to the heavenly throne that’s all main theme of the biblical message . But it all works together to make a full and complete message honoring and revolving around Jesus himself not o my what he did for us in dying but his eternal life and reign as king of kings , his spirit within our hearts ect

Having read your previous giant post and I was puzzled by what you said.

I regarded everything else in the scripture as of secondary importance.

You cannot be reconciled to God except by Jesus Christ and Him alone.

You are then given the Holy Spirit by Jesus to enable you to live the Christian life.

Christianity; the belief, trust, that faith in Jesus is the primary doctrine of Christianity.

The gospel and the gospel alone will be the cause of your salvation, and nothing else.

1 Corinthians 2:2
For I determined to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ, and Him crucified.
 
Are the Christadelphians not part of the 40,000 flavors? What’s your opinion on John Thomas being labeled as a heretic?

Christadelphians believe that Jesus was only a man and never God.

There is a serious problem in the Christadelphian belief system.

Jesus was the perfect image of God in human form.

Jesus was worshiped many times and not once did Jesus deny His divinity.

I believe the Word was God and stepped down from the throne to take on human form.

Before Abraham was born I AM (John 8:58).

I can explain the heresy of the Christadelphian church is an extended form if you wish.

John Thomas was a heretic.
 
Christadelphians believe that Jesus was only a man and never God.

There is a serious problem in the Christadelphian belief system.

Jesus was the perfect image of God in human form.

Jesus was worshiped many times and not once did Jesus deny His divinity.

I believe the Word was God and stepped down from the throne to take on human form.

Before Abraham was born I AM (John 8:58).

I can explain the heresy of the Christadelphian church is an extended form if you wish.

John Thomas was a heretic.
No need to explain. I’m well aware of what christadelphians believe which is why I asked that to memberofthebride who seems to believe very much in the same way. I’m just curious.
 
In respect of positional or practical righteousness which one really matters, regarding salvation?

They both matter, although the distinction between faith in the kerygma (PR) and in the didache (AR) involves a difference in content and purpose.
The kerygma proclaims GRFS, which calls for repentance and acceptance of Jesus as Lord, which is an all or nothing decision that occurs at one moment in time (conversion/PR).
The didache teaches God’s will regarding how saints or those who have been saved should live in order to be a good witness for Christ, which involves learning more of God’s Word throughout one’s lifetime (sanctification/actual righteousness/AR).

A passage teaching this truth is Colossians 2:6-7: “Just as you received Christ Jesus as Lord [PR, kerygma], continue to live in him, rooted and built up in him, strengthened in the faith as you were taught [AR, didache].”

There is no qualitative difference between faith that accepts God’s saving grace at conversion (PR) and faith that accepts God’s working grace or motivates good works while walking/living (AR, Eph. 2:8-10, 2Cor. 5:7), but only a quantitative difference as each additional moment passes–and of course faith remains non-meritorious during the saint’s entire lifetime (Rom. 1:17). IOW, the ability to do good works as well as have saving faith are both due to God’s grace.

Paul indicates that actual moral perfection is a goal that will not be attained in this earthly lifetime (Phil. 3:12-21).
 
They both matter, although the distinction between faith in the kerygma (PR) and in the didache (AR) involves a difference in content and purpose.
The kerygma proclaims GRFS, which calls for repentance and acceptance of Jesus as Lord, which is an all or nothing decision that occurs at one moment in time (conversion/PR).
The didache teaches God’s will regarding how saints or those who have been saved should live in order to be a good witness for Christ, which involves learning more of God’s Word throughout one’s lifetime (sanctification/actual righteousness/AR).

A passage teaching this truth is Colossians 2:6-7: “Just as you received Christ Jesus as Lord [PR, kerygma], continue to live in him, rooted and built up in him, strengthened in the faith as you were taught [AR, didache].”

There is no qualitative difference between faith that accepts God’s saving grace at conversion (PR) and faith that accepts God’s working grace or motivates good works while walking/living (AR, Eph. 2:8-10, 2Cor. 5:7), but only a quantitative difference as each additional moment passes–and of course faith remains non-meritorious during the saint’s entire lifetime (Rom. 1:17). IOW, the ability to do good works as well as have saving faith are both due to God’s grace.

Paul indicates that actual moral perfection is a goal that will not be attained in this earthly lifetime (Phil. 3:12-21).

You said.

"and of course faith remains non-meritorious during the saint’s entire lifetime"

What exactly are you trying to say?
 
If you’re going to put words in my mouth, I see no reason to continue conversing with you. It tells me you aren’t interested in hearing my perspective as you have already invented it for yourself.


Well that depends on the definition of "Your God is too small"
 
Dino246 didn't say that, I did. And what I was referring to was your denial of death bed conversions.

nighttwister

If all God is seeking is for a person to say YES, why do we all have to go through this hard life. Why not just take the person away?

Read Hebrew 11, the faith chapter, look at all those folks had to go through -- what was all that about if all God wants is a quick yes??

Sorry I see no logical reason for a 2 second yes and its a done deal.
 
Hello from northern Europe.

The opening question here is "what is the gods requirement for salvation".
An interesting question.

Have you reached any conclusions ?
 
one more thought, We are to grow into the Holy Righteous Divine Nature of GOD and that requires a life time. we learn by our trials just like Jesus did.
 
You said.

"and of course faith remains non-meritorious during the saint’s entire lifetime"

What exactly are you trying to say?

Some tulipists say faith is meritorious, and thus opening God's gift is earning salvation, so MFW does not exist.
I am saying they are nuts! (Rom. 1:17)
 
Hello from northern Europe.

The opening question here is "what is the gods requirement for salvation".
An interesting question.

Have you reached any conclusions ?
😂 “conclusion” that’s one thing that you’ll never see on this site or in the world. But if you’re bored and want to read a bunch of arguments about random subjects then this is the place.
 
nighttwister

If all God is seeking is for a person to say YES, why do we all have to go through this hard life. Why not just take the person away?

Read Hebrew 11, the faith chapter, look at all those folks had to go through -- what was all that about if all God wants is a quick yes??

Sorry I see no logical reason for a 2 second yes and its a done deal.
I don't limit God. Your God is too small.
 
😂 “conclusion” that’s one thing that you’ll never see on this site or in the world. But if you’re bored and want to read a bunch of arguments about random subjects then this is the place.

OK.
But that said; there are some conclusions one might draw in ths world.
 
OK.
But that said; there are some conclusions one might draw in ths world.
Oh definitely. You can draw you own conclusions everyday. But as far as a collective conclusion being drawn in any forum online whether it be about the Bible or about what brand of engine oil to use, nah. The problem is there will always be multiple conclusions drawn no matter the subject. We have tons of religions with tons of denominations within each religion. We have tons of political parties. We have people that wake up and believe they are the opposite gender. They don’t even agree with their own anatomy. Theres not much agreement in the world. We could probably all conclude that the world is a mess not unlike it’s been for thousands of years. Well never mind we can’t agree on the thousands of years thing either. Either way it can be very entertaining until the disagreements escalate to anger and hatred. It just becomes foolish at that point.
 
Oh definitely. You can draw you own conclusions everyday. But as far as a collective conclusion being drawn in any forum online whether it be about the Bible or about what brand of engine oil to use, nah. The problem is there will always be multiple conclusions drawn no matter the subject. We have tons of religions with tons of denominations within each religion. We have tons of political parties. We have people that wake up and believe they are the opposite gender. They don’t even agree with their own anatomy. Theres not much agreement in the world. We could probably all conclude that the world is a mess not unlike it’s been for thousands of years. Well never mind we can’t agree on the thousands of years thing either. Either way it can be very entertaining until the disagreements escalate to anger and hatred. It just becomes foolish at that point.


Ehhhh...
Are you a pessimist ?
 
Hello from northern Europe.

The opening question here is "what is the gods requirement for salvation".
An interesting question.

Have you reached any conclusions ?

Yes, my conclusions regarding GRFS are contained in this thread. Here is the beginning part:

The OT indicates that God chose the Jewish culture for the purpose of providing Messiah, through whom the world would be blessed or saved (Gen. 22:18, Isa. 42:6, 49:6, Joel 2:28& 32, Mic. 4:2-3, Zeph. 3:8-9, Zech. 2:11, 14:9&16), and the NT proclaims that Jesus of Nazareth is the promised Messiah or Christ (Acts 2:36, Rom. 1:1-4, Heb. 1:1-4, 3:3-6). It is tragic that the person God has ordained to be the head of one worldwide body of believers (John 17:20-23, Eph. 1:9-10 & 3:6, Col. 1:18-20, Phil. 2:9-11) is rejected by so many who claim to be theists. And it is ironic that this gemstone, which is the foundation and cornerstone of ultimate reality (Eph. 2:20), is the stumbling-stone (1Pet. 2:6-8) to faith in GRFS for many souls (1Cor. 1:22-25). The reason (per 2Cor. 4:3-4) is that the god of this world or Satan blinds their minds (cf. 1Cor. 2:14). Messiah/Christ is the key stone.

A crisis that threatened a Philippian jailer with death prompted him to ask Paul and Silas the most important question in life: “What must I do to be saved?” (Acts 16:30) This question is most important, because—as sinful and mortal souls—we need saving from corruption, both moral and physical. We need saving from physical death if we value or enjoy life, and we need saving from immorality or evil-doing if it results in unhappy existence, especially after this lifetime.

The reply of Paul and Silas was this: “Believe in the Lord Jesus.” (Acts 16:31) This is GRFS in a nutshell. Jesus Himself expressed GRFS even more succinctly using three, four and five letter words: “Ask… seek… knock…” (Matt. 7:7) and “Repent” (Matt. 4:17). This indicates that God graces every sinful soul with the ability or opportunity to repent and seek salvation (cf. 1Tim. 2:3-4, 2Tim. 2:25, Ezek. 33:11, cf. Rev. 3:5), which might be called “seeking grace” (Tit. 2:11). As Hebrews 11:6 states: “he [God] rewards those who earnestly seek him” (cf. Isa. 45:19).

Seeking God is the beginning of saving faith, and not repenting or rejecting God’s salvation in Christ is the essence of evil atheism or faith in I-dolatry (Rom. 3:11, 1:18-23). Jesus defined saving faith as love for God (Matt. 22:37) or reflecting God’s love (John 15:9-12, 1John 4:19). All humans hate or sin, but every sinner/hater has the opportunity to repent or have saving faith/love (John 6:29, Rom. 1:20, 2:7, 3:21-22, 4:16 & 5:5-19, Gal. 5:22-23).

Do you have any comments or questions so far?
 
Having read your previous giant post and I was puzzled by what you said.

I regarded everything else in the scripture as of secondary importance.

You cannot be reconciled to God except by Jesus Christ and Him alone.

You are then given the Holy Spirit by Jesus to enable you to live the Christian life.

Christianity; the belief, trust, that faith in Jesus is the primary doctrine of Christianity.

The gospel and the gospel alone will be the cause of your salvation, and nothing else.

1 Corinthians 2:2
For I determined to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ, and Him crucified.
“You cannot be reconciled to God except by Jesus Christ and Him alone.”

yeah that doesn’t mean ignore what he said will save your soul it includes believing what he said. . Paul taught everything Jesus taught it’s a fact that can easily be shown in Paul’s writings and Jesus words . I understand many want to reject his word and say “ I’m saved by the cross “ but not everyone . Some people actually accept what Jesus the lord said will save them . I’m in that boat sorry if that upsets you