The misleading use of 'Gentile'. All nations on earth are Goyim.

[ATG]

At some point after the OT Scriptures are finished, the word Goyim is used by Jews for non-Jews. Much as the Greeks called other nations Barbarians. Then the Christians after the NT Scriptures, the Christians joined in the fun, and coined all non-Jews, as Gentiles.

But, as with many such Jewish and Christian traditions, in the beginning it was not so.

Gen 10:31
These are the sons of Shem, after their families, after their tongues, in their lands, after their nations

We see here that 'Gentiles' is not used for all those goyim of the lands, which in future would also include the goy of Israel.

Gen 12:2
And I will make of thee a great nation (goy), and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:

And finally we see here, that the great nation of Israel sprung from Abraham, is a goy later called Israel. But for all nations before God, all nations goyim with God.

Act 17:24
God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;

And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;

All nations on earth are goyim with God, whose set boundaries include the goy of Israel. A Jewish tradition of calling all non-Jewish nations goyim, does not make that Jewish nation 'non-goyim'.

Act 14:16
Who in times past suffered all nations to walk in their own ways.

Including the goy of Israel.

Luke 24:47
And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Beginning at the goy of Judea.

And even though many Christians have also traditionally allowed themselves to be painted with being non-Jewish 'Gentiles', there is no such non-Jew identifier of 'Gentile' nations in Scriptures of God.

The is no Scripture for Jews vs non-Jewish Gentiles, no more than for Greeks vs non-Greek Barbarians. They are both the construct of nationalist men, not of God.

Jews never had Scriptural right to label non-Jews goyim, as though they are not goy themselves. And Christians certainly have no right to join in and label themselves non-Jewish gentiles, as though they are not also goy themselves.

Rom 2:9
Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Hellene; But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Hellene:

Whether it's Jews calling all other goyim, Gentiles, or Greeks calling all other ethnoi, barbarians, neither are relevant to the living God, who calls all nations goyim and ethnoi, whether Jew or Greek...

Rom 16:26
But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

Gal 3:8
And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

Whether the goy of the Jews, or the ethnos of the Greeks...

As a Christian reader of the Bible, I never accepted the traditional fashion of being a 'Gentile', simply because I never cared for not being a Jew. Now I know why: Neither Gentile nor Barbarian are acknowledged in Scripture by God, but only goyim/ethnoi nations of the earth

Do the Christians, that find it fashionable to be called Gentiles, because they are not Jewish, also find it fashionable to be called Barbarians, because they are not Hellenic?

Afterall, it's not the OT Jews that ever wrote of 'Gentiles', but only NT Christians that made it up for an interpretation of separation between goyim/ethnoi, that God never has in the OT nor the NT.

 

[homwardbound]

Goyim
(גּוֹיִם) is the Hebrew/Yiddish plural of "goy," meaning "nation" or "people," but it's primarily used by Jewish people to refer to non-Jews or gentiles, often with connotations ranging from neutral to derogatory, similar to "gentile" in English; however, the term is also infamously co-opted by far-right groups like the Goyim Defense League (GDL) for antisemitic purposes, adding complexity to its modern usage.
Key Meanings & Usage:

• Origin: From Hebrew goy (nation/people) and its plural goyim(nations/peoples).
• Biblical Context: In the Bible, goy or goyim referred to any nation, including Israel.
• Modern Jewish Usage
  : Evolved to mean "non-Jew" or "gentile," used by Jews to describe outsiders, sometimes pejoratively, sometimes neutrally.
• • Yiddish/English: Adopted into Yiddish and English, the term carries different weight depending on who uses it and the context.
  Contemporary Misappropriation:
  • Goyim Defense League (GDL): A neo-Nazi group that uses the term "Goyim" to mock Jewish defense organizations (like the ADL) and promotes antisemitic conspiracy theories.
  In essence, "goyim" means non-Jews, but its meaning shifts dramatically from a common ethnic descriptor within Jewish culture to a hateful slur when used by antisemites.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Israel is called a goy numerous times (goyim is plural). This was the first

And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation {goy}. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel. Exodus 19:6​

​

Holy goy has a nice ring to it

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

Who cares?

God knows who are His is all that matters.

 

[Dino246]

There comes a time when you accept that language is not constant or you die on a hill. If we are talking about the biblical use of words, then it's fine to restrict their meaning, but if you want to understand people or be understood when you communicate, you must accept that someone's use (or perception) of a word may not be precise according to biblical evidence, even when the word is used in context vaguely related to Scripture.

Or, to put it more concisely, this isn't a hill worth dying on.

 

[SomeDisciple]

Because they were a "holy" (separate) nation, they were not part of "the nations".

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Jacob prophesied that the seed of Israel would become a fullness of goyim. His half-Egyptian adopted son Ephraim inherited the birthright and all of the promises to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. The names Ephraim and Israel are used synonymously in scripture.

And his father [jacob] refused, and said, I know, my son, I know. He [Manasseh] also shall become a people, and he also shall be great, but truly his younger brother [Ephraim] shall be greater than he, and his seed shall become a fullness of gentiles (goyim). Genesis 48:19​

 

[ATG]

Gentile is not a translated word from Hebrew nor Greek Scriptures, but is only a word made up solely for doctrinal and prophetic interpretation. Using the word Gentile anywhere in Scripture, would be the same error as inserting the word 'Rapture'. And yet no Christian inserts rapture for harpazo. Why then gentile for goyim?

Gen 10:5
By these were the isles of the Gentiles (Goyim) divided in their lands; every one after his tongue, after their families, in their nations (Goyim)

The first time Gentile is doctrinally inserted into the Bible, has nothing to do with doctrine, but only with geography: those nations of the isles vs those nations of the mainland. It's only by inserting 'Gentiles', that changes the Scripture into some sort of foreshadowing prophecy of Goyim vs Israelites.

What God simply records of nations geographically separating, latter day Gentile vs Jewish Christian interpreters turn into a self-fulfilling prophecy of separation between all goyim from Jews. As though the Jewish nation is not one of the 'goyim' itself.

 

[ATG]

Isa 42:1
Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

Isa 42:6
I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;

Once again, we see the falsely prophetic use of Gentiles as opposed to Jews. Which began with the Jewish use of Goyim apart from Jews, after all OT Scripture is finished..

The insert of Gentiles as non-Jewish Goyim, like the goyim of the isles vs mainland, is once again grammatically and prophetically false. However, this time with far worse damage to the Jews when Messiah comes. Who by that time had begun to falsely view all Goyim as non-Jews, for 'Gentiles' alone.

By falsely inserting insert Gentiles into the prophecy of Isaiah, it now implies that the Messiah only needed to enlighten the non-Jewish Goyim of the earth.

Mat 4:16
The people which sat in darkness saw great light; and to them which sat in the region and shadow of death light is sprung up.

To the non-Goyim Jews of the day, Messiah certainly would not need come to themselves to save and be a light, as though they themselves were also in Goyim darkness:

Luk 4:18
The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

Why did the Jews of Nazareth seek to cast Jesus off the cliff, when declaring Isaiah's Messiah is fulfilled by Him, to his own kinsmen after the flesh? Because of the unscriptural Goyim vs Jew dichotomy set up by the Jews themselves, not by God.

The leading Jews of Jesus' day did not seek a Messiah coming to save them first among the nations, but only to lead the non-Goyim Jews into enlightening the darkened Goyim of the earth, who alone were nations sitting in darkness and the shadow of death...

And this proud error is later fed by false Christian interpreters, who continue to insert that false dichotomy between Gentiles vs Jew, into prophecy of OT Scripture, as well as NT doctrine of Christ:

Rom 2:7
To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile (Hellene); But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile (Hellene).

They even insert Gentile instead of Hellene, which loses any semblance of grammatical translation, to be replaced solely by false doctrinal interpretation.

And so we see how some Christians caught up in the whole Goyim vs Jews error, will go with 'interpretive' translation, that promotes their own fashion of Gentiles vs Jews...

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Gentile is not a translated word from Hebrew nor Greek Scriptures, but is only a word made up solely for doctrinal and prophetic interpretation. Using the word Gentile anywhere in Scripture, would be the same error as inserting the word 'Rapture'. And yet no Christian inserts rapture for harpazo. Why then gentile for goyim?

It's not made up; Gentilis is the Latin word for the Hebrew goy

 

[Psalm1]

At some point after the OT Scriptures are finished, the word Goyim is used by Jews for non-Jews. Much as the Greeks called other nations Barbarians. Then the Christians after the NT Scriptures, the Christians joined in the fun, and coined all non-Jews, as Gentiles.

But, as with many such Jewish and Christian traditions, in the beginning it was not so.

Gen 10:31
These are the sons of Shem, after their families, after their tongues, in their lands, after their nations

We see here that 'Gentiles' is not used for all those goyim of the lands, which in future would also include the goy of Israel.

Gen 12:2
And I will make of thee a great nation (goy), and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:

And finally we see here, that the great nation of Israel sprung from Abraham, is a goy later called Israel. But for all nations before God, all nations goyim with God.

Act 17:24
God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;

And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;

All nations on earth are goyim with God, whose set boundaries include the goy of Israel. A Jewish tradition of calling all non-Jewish nations goyim, does not make that Jewish nation 'non-goyim'.

Act 14:16
Who in times past suffered all nations to walk in their own ways.

Including the goy of Israel.

Luke 24:47
And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Beginning at the goy of Judea.

And even though many Christians have also traditionally allowed themselves to be painted with being non-Jewish 'Gentiles', there is no such non-Jew identifier of 'Gentile' nations in Scriptures of God.

The is no Scripture for Jews vs non-Jewish Gentiles, no more than for Greeks vs non-Greek Barbarians. They are both the construct of nationalist men, not of God.

Jews never had Scriptural right to label non-Jews goyim, as though they are not goy themselves. And Christians certainly have no right to join in and label themselves non-Jewish gentiles, as though they are not also goy themselves.

Rom 2:9
Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Hellene; But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Hellene:

Whether it's Jews calling all other goyim, Gentiles, or Greeks calling all other ethnoi, barbarians, neither are relevant to the living God, who calls all nations goyim and ethnoi, whether Jew or Greek...

Rom 16:26
But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

Gal 3:8
And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

Whether the goy of the Jews, or the ethnos of the Greeks...

As a Christian reader of the Bible, I never accepted the traditional fashion of being a 'Gentile', simply because I never cared for not being a Jew. Now I know why: Neither Gentile nor Barbarian are acknowledged in Scripture by God, but only goyim/ethnoi nations of the earth

Do the Christians, that find it fashionable to be called Gentiles, because they are not Jewish, also find it fashionable to be called Barbarians, because they are not Hellenic?

Afterall, it's not the OT Jews that ever wrote of 'Gentiles', but only NT Christians that made it up for an interpretation of separation between goyim/ethnoi, that God never has in the OT nor the NT.

Building a case for replacement theology?

 

[ATG]

Goyim
(גּוֹיִם) is the Hebrew/Yiddish plural of "goy," meaning "nation" or "people," but it's primarily used by Jewish people to refer to non-Jews or gentiles, often with connotations ranging from neutral to derogatory, similar to "gentile" in English; however, the term is also infamously co-opted by far-right groups like the Goyim Defense League (GDL) for antisemitic purposes, adding complexity to its modern usage.
Key Meanings & Usage:

• Origin: From Hebrew goy (nation/people) and its plural goyim(nations/peoples).
• Biblical Context: In the Bible, goy or goyim referred to any nation, including Israel.
• Modern Jewish Usage
  : Evolved to mean "non-Jew" or "gentile," used by Jews to describe outsiders, sometimes pejoratively, sometimes neutrally.
• • Yiddish/English: Adopted into Yiddish and English, the term carries different weight depending on who uses it and the context.
• Contemporary Misappropriation:
  • Goyim Defense League (GDL): A neo-Nazi group that uses the term "Goyim" to mock Jewish defense organizations (like the ADL) and promotes antisemitic conspiracy theories.
• In essence, "goyim" means non-Jews, but its meaning shifts dramatically from a common ethnic descriptor within Jewish culture to a hateful slur when used by antisemites.

Good study. Thanks. As I said, Goyim is not God's word for non-Jews. That is only a latter Jewish during the years of God's Scriptural silence after Malachi.

It became one of the main corrupt traditions made by Jewish leaders during that time, which led them to rejecting Jesus as Messiah, because He come to deliver and give light to all Goyim on earth, beginning with that of the Jews.

The leading Jews that had become 'anti-Goyim', were offended at being judged the same as them by their own sins and trespasses against the LORD God of Israel...

In similar fashion, later Christians after Christ's finish with Revelation, began propagating that old corrupt view of Goyim, with their own use of 'Gentile'.

Only goyim and ethnoi is in Scripture of God, for all nations on earth, whether of the mainland or the isles, whether Canaan, Accadia, Israel, Assyria, Rome, Greek, Russia, Brazil...

God has had only 2 nations of His own on earth: First by circumcision and law of Moses, and now by grace and faith of Jesus Christ.

Neither of them are by natural goy alone:

Gen 17:14
And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.

Rom 9:7
Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Gal 3:7
Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

• In essence, "goyim" means non-Jews, but its meaning shifts dramatically from a common ethnic descriptor within Jewish culture to a hateful slur when used by antisemites.

How is does anyone turn Goyim for non-Jews into anti-semitism? It's some Jews that slur Goyim into an insult to non-Jews.

 

[ATG]

Israel is called a goy numerous times (goyim is plural). This was the first

And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation {goy}. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel. Exodus 19:6​

​

​

Actually, the first mention of the goy of Israel, was in genesis.​

Gen 12:2
And I will make of thee a great nation (goy), and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:

Holy goy has a nice ring to it

True, both the old goy of Israel after the flesh of Abraham, and now the new goy of Israel after the Spirit of Christ.

Gal 4:28
Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise….born after the Spirit.

1Pe 2:9
But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

 

[ATG]

There comes a time when you accept that language is not constant or you die on a hill. If we are talking about the biblical use of words, then it's fine to restrict their meaning, but if you want to understand people or be understood when you communicate, you must accept that someone's use (or perception) of a word may not be precise according to biblical evidence, even when the word is used in context vaguely related to Scripture.

No doubt. If this were a cultural study of different people. It only matters when people try to insert their personal ideologies into Scripture, and corrupt it into something God never said.

2Pe 1:20
Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

That is not acceptable to the Lord God:

2 Peter 3:16
As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Or, to put it more concisely, this isn't a hill worth dying on.

Try telling that to some OT Jews today, and their Christian enablers in prophecy of the Lord's coming again. It's certainly is a hill, that some people are trying to live upon and trust in:

Mat 7:26
And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand. And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

2Ti 2:15
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

 

[ATG]

Because they were a "holy" (separate) nation, they were not part of "the nations".

Not a part of the uncircumcised nations, but certainly a part of all the nations on earth

God's holy separated nation one earth, was first by circumcision and law of Moses, and now is by grace and faith in Jesus Christ, which is not of the unholy nations.

Jhn 15:19
If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

But we all are certainly goyim after the flesh. There is no goyim non-Jews, where Jews are not goyim themselves. And there is no Gentiles vs Jews in the site of God, who judges all nations according to our works, with the goy of the Jews first:

Rom 2:9
Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Hellene; But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Hellene:

If any one wants to call any nation Gentile, then so be it. All nations on earth today are Gentile to God, with the goy of the Jews first.

 

[Dino246]

2 Pe 1:20
Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

That is not acceptable to the Lord God:

Since your meaning here is not abundantly clear, please explain: what is your understanding of 2 Peter 1:20?

 

[Solitude]

Since your meaning here is not abundantly clear, please explain: what is your understanding of 2 Peter 1:20?

You are the only one who doesn't understand. We understand that scripture verse well.

 

[ATG]

Jacob prophesied that the seed of Israel would become a fullness of goyim. His half-Egyptian adopted son Ephraim inherited the birthright and all of the promises to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. The names Ephraim and Israel are used synonymously in scripture.

And his father [jacob] refused, and said, I know, my son, I know. He [Manasseh] also shall become a people, and he also shall be great, but truly his younger brother [Ephraim] shall be greater than he, and his seed shall become a fullness of gentiles (goyim). Genesis 48:19​

And his father [jacob] refused, and said, I know, my son, I know. He [Manasseh] also shall become a people, and he also shall be great, but truly his younger brother [Ephraim] shall be greater than he, and his seed shall become a fullness of nations. Genesis 48:19

True. This must refer to Ephraim taken away by Assyria, and becoming assimilated into the nations of the Assyrian empire.

'The 'lost' tribes of Israel, especially of Ephraim, simply refers to their Israeli heritage and law, becoming of none effect in their assimilation among many nations...The cease to be a tribe of Israel, but rather part of the fullness of those nations on earth.

Unlike the Jews taken captive to Babylon, who did keep the law of Moses, until their return:

Dan 1:8
But Daniel purposed in his heart that he would not defile himself with the portion of the king's meat, nor with the wine which he drank: therefore he requested of the prince of the eunuchs that he might not defile himself.

Ephraim in a bad way, can be compared to the fullness of nations in the body of Christ, where the Jewish seed is also made of none effect.

 

[ATG]

It's not made up; Gentilis is the Latin word for the Hebrew goy

Correct. But like the Jews making up a new definition for Goyim into non-Jews, so complacent Christians have done the same for Gentiles vs Jews. I.e. it's not an organic product of God's use of Goyim/Ethnoi. It's instead a doctrinal by-product of a false definition of Goyim, that changes Bible doctrine and prophecy anywhere it's falsely injected.

The doctrinal bastardization of Goyim is not just being non-Jewish, but is being Gentile to God heathen.

Gen 10:5
By these were the isles of the Gentiles divided in their lands; every one after his tongue, after their families, in their nations.

The doctrinal insertion of Gentiles, rather than nations, before there was ever a nation of Israel, is not just a bad trasnlation out of context, but is a purposed doctrinal insert, that they were all against God.

Abraham was a Syrian Goyim,

Deu 26:4
And the priest shall take the basket out of thine hand, and set it down before the altar of the LORD thy God. And thou shalt speak and say before the LORD thy God, A Syrian ready to perish was my father, and he went down into Egypt, and sojourned there with a few, and became there a nation, great, mighty, and populous:

We see here, where in the nation of Israel, God purposed to remind them, that they were all from Syrian Goyim. They too were Goyium of the earth. Who calls Abraham a 'Gentile' heathen? None, because of it's doctrinal origin and connotation from the latter corrupt use of all Goyim becoming non-Jew, as though Jews are not Goyim themselves. And if non-Jew, then also non-Hebrew, and therefore not a born seed of Abraham the Syrian Goyim,

'Gentiles' is a ridiculous self-defeating ideological corruption, especially for Christians, that is injected into the Bible for their own inferiority to 'non-Goyim' Jews. It has no grammatical, and especially not doctrinal nor prophetic place in Scripture of God.

 

[Dino246]

You are the only one who doesn't understand. We understand that scripture verse well.

Did I even hint that I don't understand the verse?

No.

Not at all.

I asked HIM what HIS understanding of the verse is. But since you are so confident, how about YOU explain YOUR understanding of the verse.