Romans 10:17, a courtroom haearing?

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No man can come to me unless he be drawn by the Father, and I will raise him up at the last day. It is written in the prophets that they shall all be taught of God. He therefore that has heard and has learned from the Father comes unto me. John 6:44-45

From the Father....
I will raise them up a prophet... And it shall come to pass that whoever does not hearken to him will be destroyed....
Deuteronomy 18:18-19

He therefore that has heard and has learned from the Father, hearkens to the Son.

And this good news of the kingdom shall be published in all nations... It is a promise.

As the Son said, if He be crucified he will draw all mankind unto Him.

Everyone is called to read the word of God, God calls all men everywhere to repent
Acts 17:30-31
 
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Watchman22 said:
THE WORD "BELIEVE" IS A MISTRANSLATION!!!!

USING IT AS YOUR PREMISE FOR ANYTHING IS ERROR!
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I don’t think I used any word as a premise . What I did was say look at the context of what’s being said there’s nothing “ mistranslated “

“For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:11-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the point of Roman’s 10:17 is found in what Paul’s talking about , this part

“How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? ( it’s impossible to believe what you have never heard ) and how shall they hear without a preacher? ( it’s impossible to hear something no one says )And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:14-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that’s all I’m saying if ne looks at what Paul’s talking about before and after the verse usually it’s pretty clear and simple like Roman’s 10 there

you can’t believe something you aren’t aware of and haven’t heard . You can’t hear something and believe or disbelieve it if you have never heard it . Paul’s point is you have to hear the gospel in order to believe or reject it .

This needs to happen or nonone could believe and be saved

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.


He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

its a simple concept how can a person believe something if they haven’t heard about it or seen it ? They can’t . The only way we even know the name Jesus is because the disciples preached his name and baptized in his name . Paul’s making a simple basic point . Belief saves but you have to hear the message in order to believe it or reject it
 
ThunderPen said:
No man can come to me unless he be drawn by the Father, and I will raise him up at the last day. It is written in the prophets that they shall all be taught of God. He therefore that has heard and has learned from the Father comes unto me. John 6:44-45

From the Father....
I will raise them up a prophet... And it shall come to pass that whoever does not hearken to him will be destroyed....
Deuteronomy 18:18-19

He therefore that has heard and has learned from the Father, hearkens to the Son.

And this good news of the kingdom shall be published in all nations... It is a promise.

As the Son said, if He be crucified he will draw all mankind unto Him.

Everyone is called to read the word of God, God calls all men everywhere to repent
Acts 17:30-31
Click to expand...

“No man can come to me unless he be drawn by the Father, and I will raise him up at the last day.”

“And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. This he said, signifying what death he should die.”
‭‭John‬ ‭12:32-33‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭2:3-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:31-32‬ ‭KJV‬‬
 
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For those that have been civil, I'm going to present some of the Scriptures with the word "believe" in them in another thread.

Keep an eye out for it.
 
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Watchman22 said:
For those that have been civil, I'm going to present some of the Scriptures with the word "believe" in them in another thread.

Keep an eye out for it.
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I don't think you're a qualified to be judge of civil behavior when you follow a TV preacher who calls his viewers worthless

 
Watchman22 said:
That's not true.

Believe is the corresponding verb to the noun "belief". But I got ya, you don't care and require me not to care. Not going to happen.
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When you can come up a widely accepted English word for the activity of exercising faith, you might have a point.

I won’t wait.
 
NightTwister said:
Romans 10:17 isn't about judgement at all. It's about how we receive faith. It is by hearing, and that hearing comes from Jesus.
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at he hearing comes because the gospel is preached by his followers that’s what Paul’s explainkng it’s an old prophecy that was fulfilled

“for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? And how can anyone preach unless they are sent?

As it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!” ( prophecy ) Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:13-15, 17‬ ‭NIV‬‬

when a person hears this for instance

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:16‬ ‭

that information can now take root and begin to shape tbier faith . Until they hear that message they can’t believe it . You have to hear the message in order to believe or disregard it as foolishness

“How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings, that publisheth peace; that bringeth good tidings of good, that publisheth salvation; that saith unto Zion, Thy God reigneth! Thy watchmen shall lift up the voice; with the voice together shall they sing: for they shall see eye to eye, when the LORD shall bring again Zion.

The LORD hath made bare his holy arm in the eyes of all the nations; and all the ends of the earth shall see the salvation of our God. Behold, my servant shall deal prudently, he shall be exalted and extolled, and be very high. As many were astonied at thee; his visage was so marred more than any man, and his form more than the sons of men: so shall he sprinkle many nations; the kings shall shut their mouths at him: for that which had not been told them shall they see; and that which they had not heard shall they consider.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭52:7-8, 10, 13-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed? Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.( the heart of Paul’s message ) All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth. Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭53:1, 4-6, 9-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Prophecy helps understand Paul a lot because his doctrine is directly coming from ot prophecy
 
Pilgrimshope said:
at he hearing comes because the gospel is preached by his followers that’s what Paul’s explainkng it’s an old prophecy that was fulfilled

“for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? And how can anyone preach unless they are sent?

As it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!” ( prophecy ) Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:13-15, 17‬ ‭NIV‬‬

when a person hears this for instance

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:16‬ ‭

that information can now take root and begin to shape tbier faith . Until they hear that message they can’t believe it . You have to hear the message in order to believe or disregard it as foolishness

“How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings, that publisheth peace; that bringeth good tidings of good, that publisheth salvation; that saith unto Zion, Thy God reigneth! Thy watchmen shall lift up the voice; with the voice together shall they sing: for they shall see eye to eye, when the LORD shall bring again Zion.

The LORD hath made bare his holy arm in the eyes of all the nations; and all the ends of the earth shall see the salvation of our God. Behold, my servant shall deal prudently, he shall be exalted and extolled, and be very high. As many were astonied at thee; his visage was so marred more than any man, and his form more than the sons of men: so shall he sprinkle many nations; the kings shall shut their mouths at him: for that which had not been told them shall they see; and that which they had not heard shall they consider.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭52:7-8, 10, 13-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed? Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.( the heart of Paul’s message ) All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth. Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭53:1, 4-6, 9-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Prophecy helps understand Paul a lot because his doctrine is directly coming from ot prophecy
Click to expand...
Prophecy doesn't apply here. This is about how we receive faith. It's the same way people have always received it.
 
NightTwister said:
Prophecy doesn't apply here. This is about how we receive faith. It's the same way people have always received it.
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lol yeah this prophecy that Paul quotes while explaining has nothing to do with it

“And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings, that publisheth peace; that bringeth good tidings of good, that publisheth salvation; that saith unto Zion, Thy God reigneth!”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭52:7‬ ‭

which then goes into Jesus dying for sin and being raised up again lol nope no connection whatsoever pauls just randomly trying to confuse folks by quoting from unconnected prophecy in his explaination brilliant !
 
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Pilgrimshope said:
lol yeah this prophecy that Paul quotes while explaining has nothing to do with it

“And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings, that publisheth peace; that bringeth good tidings of good, that publisheth salvation; that saith unto Zion, Thy God reigneth!”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭52:7‬ ‭

which then goes into Jesus dying for sin and being raised up again lol nope no connection whatsoever pauls just randomly trying to confuse folks by quoting from unconnected prophecy in his explaination brilliant !
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Not everything is about prophecy.
 
Dino246 said:
Those are merely different components of the Christian life. Neither is a widely accepted English word (singular) that means exercising faith.
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Yeah when you put the term walk before faith it makes the cannotation active in the use of the term faith . Having faith is not active it’s just something you have walking by faith is the active part of it .

We know where it comes from hearing the word of god . But that’s not the same as walking by that faith we receive from the word , one is active one is not active like a seed and then the plant later bearing fruit .

Why are you guys arguing about the definition of the term faith but no one’s looking at what the bible teaches about faith ? There’s a lot to define and understand faith in the scriptures that speak from faith
 
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NightTwister said:
Not everything is about prophecy.
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Yeah like I said pul just quoted the prophecy a few times to confuse the church….

“and he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began. Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭3:20-21, 24‬ ‭

You should test what Peter said there about prophecy

Paul used the prophets continually to reveal the gospel it’s in nearly every epistle quotes from the law and prophets that Jesus fulfilled . It’s where a lot of spiritual growth happens finding those prophecies that are continually throughout the Bible most speak of the gospel and Paul’s revelations . That’s why he’s always quoting them then explaining to the church .

I’m suprised the paulians never tend to read his epistles but pluck verses here and there then explain contrary to what he’s explaining

“And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭28:23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that’s because there’s alot in them to pursuade about Jesus and the gospel
 
Watchman22 said:
Ya, I'm not convinced faith can come by hearing, for the reasons stated in the Op.

I think it's possible faith comes by "A" hearing, "A" hearing by the word of God Jesus Christ.

"A" hearing to judge whether our surrendered life is genuine or not. If it is, He gives us a portion of His Presence at the beginning, that will cause us to make a better, deeper surrendering of ourselves. That process continues like that throughout the salvation journey. Changing as we receive His Spirit and the mind of Christ.
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Thanks, God saves from first day anyone decides to believe, trust God. Eph 1:13. These from God. God seals to teach each new personally between God and them. God knowing when to reveal more or not, and we, I respond in thanksgiving, even if do not get what I wanted. Now seeing it is best for me to not get what I want. Thus new growth begins, God teaching us, to mature in this continued trust to God, even through troubles we all go through, I know I have, and I bet you too and anyone else reading this as well.
Seals, each person to learn new. Now I have seen me not willing and God stand aside and not condemn me and me learn what I was doing by my own thoughts, thinking I am well and found out not. Turned back to God from within and said this ain't working out. God says I will teach you why, will you stay willing to learn from me, even those things you do not like, did not work out?
Yes, now, I see all things are now permissible, yet not all things beneficial or well for my Soul. So I learn new in what is best for me, not from self or anyone else anymore, God himself!
God loves us all, this well Jeremiah 29:11
 
Watchman22 said:
No problem giving God all the credit here.

Glad your journey is giving you peace.
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thank you, it has been a long journey of troubles, and still can be here on earth
I have said to God it is better if I go and be with Father and Son and not be here in this adversities of earth. God said not yet, now understand this,
Romans 14, whether you live or die, you are well, If leave, you are with Son and me as Won for you. If you stay, I am with you always
So I can rejoice regardless of my wants, seeing my wants can and have been out of sync with Father and Son for me. Learning new daily
Seeing, the exchanged life of Son whom took away sin and gave me and you and all others in belief too his righteousness. Now able to love all, regardless in God's truth 1 Cor 13:4-7, 13
 
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