Jesus and Paul, not Versus

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Musicmaster

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Some may ask, "Why focus on the differences?" It's not so much the differences as it is what is relevant for us today. The Messianic Jews in Jerusalem remained zealous of the Law, and when they were dispersed out into the world because of the severe persecutions, they preached ONLY to fellow Jews, not Gentiles [although Peter did preach to a small hand full of Gentiles].

Acts 11:19 Now they which were scattered abroad upon the persecution that arose about Stephen travelled as far as Phenice, and Cyprus, and Antioch, preaching the word to none but unto the Jews only.

Messianic Jews stood soundly upon the Law and the continued requirement for adherence to the Mosaic Law under the watchful eyes of the tweleve apostles. Gentiles did not. Gentiles were never given the Law nor commanded to follow the Mosaic Law as was Israel, which was God's priesthood on this earth until her fall and the coming down of the middle wall of partition.

Some have asked WHY the Lord would deal differently with Israel-only compared to Gentiles and Jews as the body of Christ today; which was based upon the coming down of that middle wall of partition. Given that there was a wall, that clearly shows to us two distinct groupings; with Jews on one side and Gentiles on the other, which no longer is the case today. Dare we give this some thought, combining two radically different groups, one of which Jesus referred to as "dogs" when speaking of the "children's bread," that distinction is no longer valid today, which gives to us the beginnings of an understanding as to why the Lord changed His dealings with mankind and the gospel message going from water baptism for remission of sins to saved by grace through faith, and that not of ourselves, but a GIFT of God to us all...Jews and Gentiles.

What have your studies shown to you. Do you think the effort for water baptism isn't a work or effort on our part as was required under the Kingdom Gospel? Do you think your sins are remitted today on the basis of your effort for water baptism? Some have claimed that wasn't a work of effort on their part, but I have grave doubts someone carried them down into the water from an easy chair or a pew.

Thoughts about the chart differences and other items in this post?

MM
 
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View attachment 283475

Some may ask, "Why focus on the differences?" It's not so much the differences as it is what is relevant for us today. The Messianic Jews in Jerusalem remained zealous of the Law, and when they were dispersed out into the world because of the severe persecutions, they preached ONLY to fellow Jews, not Gentiles [although Peter did preach to a small hand full of Gentiles].

Acts 11:19 Now they which were scattered abroad upon the persecution that arose about Stephen travelled as far as Phenice, and Cyprus, and Antioch, preaching the word to none but unto the Jews only.

Messianic Jews stood soundly upon the Law and the continued requirement for adherence to the Mosaic Law under the watchful eyes of the tweleve apostles. Gentiles did not. Gentiles were never given the Law nor commanded to follow the Mosaic Law as was Israel, which was God's priesthood on this earth until her fall and the coming down of the middle wall of partition.

Some have asked WHY the Lord would deal differently with Israel-only compared to Gentiles and Jews as the body of Christ today; which was based upon the coming down of that middle wall of partition. Given that there was a wall, that clearly shows to us two distinct groupings; with Jews on one side and Gentiles on the other, which no longer is the case today. Dare we give this some thought, combining two radically different groups, one of which Jesus referred to as "dogs" when speaking of the "children's bread," that distinction is no longer valid today, which gives to us the beginnings of an understanding as to why the Lord changed His dealings with mankind and the gospel message going from water baptism for remission of sins to saved by grace through faith, and that not of ourselves, but a GIFT of God to us all...Jews and Gentiles.

What have your studies shown to you. Do you think the effort for water baptism isn't a work or effort on our part as was required under the Kingdom Gospel? Do you think your sins are remitted today on the basis of your effort for water baptism? Some have claimed that wasn't a work of effort on their part, but I have grave doubts someone carried them down into the water from an easy chair or a pew.

Thoughts about the chart differences and other items in this post?

MM

My understanding is that God commanded the Levitical laws in order to separate Jews from Gentiles until Messiah's advent,
after which the separation ended as the OC was superseded by the NT.

Both Jesus and Paul preached a gospel of salvation via grace.
Both understood the kingdom of heaven to be fully attained after resurrection and divine judgment.
Both preached Jesus as Messiah, who atoned for the sins of all humanity.
Both preached repentance, faith in Jesus as the Lord incarnate and love as the summary commandment.
Both preached to Jews and Gentiles.
Jesus fulfilled the Mosaic Covenant, thereby initiating the New Covenant.

IOW, not versus is correct!
 
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View attachment 283475

Some may ask, "Why focus on the differences?" It's not so much the differences as it is what is relevant for us today. The Messianic Jews in Jerusalem remained zealous of the Law, and when they were dispersed out into the world because of the severe persecutions, they preached ONLY to fellow Jews, not Gentiles [although Peter did preach to a small hand full of Gentiles].

Acts 11:19 Now they which were scattered abroad upon the persecution that arose about Stephen travelled as far as Phenice, and Cyprus, and Antioch, preaching the word to none but unto the Jews only.

Messianic Jews stood soundly upon the Law and the continued requirement for adherence to the Mosaic Law under the watchful eyes of the tweleve apostles. Gentiles did not. Gentiles were never given the Law nor commanded to follow the Mosaic Law as was Israel, which was God's priesthood on this earth until her fall and the coming down of the middle wall of partition.

Some have asked WHY the Lord would deal differently with Israel-only compared to Gentiles and Jews as the body of Christ today; which was based upon the coming down of that middle wall of partition. Given that there was a wall, that clearly shows to us two distinct groupings; with Jews on one side and Gentiles on the other, which no longer is the case today. Dare we give this some thought, combining two radically different groups, one of which Jesus referred to as "dogs" when speaking of the "children's bread," that distinction is no longer valid today, which gives to us the beginnings of an understanding as to why the Lord changed His dealings with mankind and the gospel message going from water baptism for remission of sins to saved by grace through faith, and that not of ourselves, but a GIFT of God to us all...Jews and Gentiles.

What have your studies shown to you. Do you think the effort for water baptism isn't a work or effort on our part as was required under the Kingdom Gospel? Do you think your sins are remitted today on the basis of your effort for water baptism? Some have claimed that wasn't a work of effort on their part, but I have grave doubts someone carried them down into the water from an easy chair or a pew.

Thoughts about the chart differences and other items in this post?

MM

thank you for the insight, amazing distinction
I love in Phil 3, I gave up the Law (Being under it) to win Christ
Thanks again good to hear from you Musicmaster
I see the dispensation as Father reveals truth deeper and deeper and wider and higher loving us all the entire time from day one of the fall of Adam and Eve
 
Paul's writings are scripture..God breathed. Jesus is God, and Paul's writings are Jesus's writings, His words.

Jesus did not teach a different gospel. Jesus did not teach being saved by faith in Him plus works.

Read the book of John and you'll see its all about being saved by grace thru faith in Jesus.

Following the Law never made a sinner righteous, but it was the way of service in the OT thru that system.

The way of service now is in a NT church, thru the 10 commandments. Again, following them is not binding on eternal salvation.
 
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View attachment 283475

Some may ask, "Why focus on the differences?" It's not so much the differences as it is what is relevant for us today. The Messianic Jews in Jerusalem remained zealous of the Law, and when they were dispersed out into the world because of the severe persecutions, they preached ONLY to fellow Jews, not Gentiles [although Peter did preach to a small hand full of Gentiles].

Acts 11:19 Now they which were scattered abroad upon the persecution that arose about Stephen travelled as far as Phenice, and Cyprus, and Antioch, preaching the word to none but unto the Jews only.

Messianic Jews stood soundly upon the Law and the continued requirement for adherence to the Mosaic Law under the watchful eyes of the tweleve apostles. Gentiles did not. Gentiles were never given the Law nor commanded to follow the Mosaic Law as was Israel, which was God's priesthood on this earth until her fall and the coming down of the middle wall of partition.

Some have asked WHY the Lord would deal differently with Israel-only compared to Gentiles and Jews as the body of Christ today; which was based upon the coming down of that middle wall of partition. Given that there was a wall, that clearly shows to us two distinct groupings; with Jews on one side and Gentiles on the other, which no longer is the case today. Dare we give this some thought, combining two radically different groups, one of which Jesus referred to as "dogs" when speaking of the "children's bread," that distinction is no longer valid today, which gives to us the beginnings of an understanding as to why the Lord changed His dealings with mankind and the gospel message going from water baptism for remission of sins to saved by grace through faith, and that not of ourselves, but a GIFT of God to us all...Jews and Gentiles.

What have your studies shown to you. Do you think the effort for water baptism isn't a work or effort on our part as was required under the Kingdom Gospel? Do you think your sins are remitted today on the basis of your effort for water baptism? Some have claimed that wasn't a work of effort on their part, but I have grave doubts someone carried them down into the water from an easy chair or a pew.

Thoughts about the chart differences and other items in this post?

MM
Is the 'salvation' in Jesus: #4 the earthly salvation of Israel and the 'salvation' in Paul: #4 an individual's eternal salvation?
 
I am not sure "garbage" is the best Christian way to describe mid acts dispensationalism. Contempt may be a warning sign of being in a snare.

2Ti 2:25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
2Ti 2:26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.
 
I am not sure "garbage" is the best Christian way to describe mid acts dispensationalism. Contempt may be a warning sign of being in a snare.

2Ti 2:25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
2Ti 2:26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

I'm really not interested in faux piety.
 
View attachment 283475

Some may ask, "Why focus on the differences?" It's not so much the differences as it is what is relevant for us today. The Messianic Jews in Jerusalem remained zealous of the Law, and when they were dispersed out into the world because of the severe persecutions, they preached ONLY to fellow Jews, not Gentiles [although Peter did preach to a small hand full of Gentiles].

Acts 11:19 Now they which were scattered abroad upon the persecution that arose about Stephen travelled as far as Phenice, and Cyprus, and Antioch, preaching the word to none but unto the Jews only.

Messianic Jews stood soundly upon the Law and the continued requirement for adherence to the Mosaic Law under the watchful eyes of the tweleve apostles. Gentiles did not. Gentiles were never given the Law nor commanded to follow the Mosaic Law as was Israel, which was God's priesthood on this earth until her fall and the coming down of the middle wall of partition.

Some have asked WHY the Lord would deal differently with Israel-only compared to Gentiles and Jews as the body of Christ today; which was based upon the coming down of that middle wall of partition. Given that there was a wall, that clearly shows to us two distinct groupings; with Jews on one side and Gentiles on the other, which no longer is the case today. Dare we give this some thought, combining two radically different groups, one of which Jesus referred to as "dogs" when speaking of the "children's bread," that distinction is no longer valid today, which gives to us the beginnings of an understanding as to why the Lord changed His dealings with mankind and the gospel message going from water baptism for remission of sins to saved by grace through faith, and that not of ourselves, but a GIFT of God to us all...Jews and Gentiles.

What have your studies shown to you. Do you think the effort for water baptism isn't a work or effort on our part as was required under the Kingdom Gospel? Do you think your sins are remitted today on the basis of your effort for water baptism? Some have claimed that wasn't a work of effort on their part, but I have grave doubts someone carried them down into the water from an easy chair or a pew.

Thoughts about the chart differences and other items in this post?

MM
Moses of those are false divisions. For example, in Matthew 4:15-23, Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, which was a light to the Gentiles, and the Mosaic Law was how his audience knew what sin is (Romans 3:20), so repenting from our disobedience to it is a central part of the Gospel of the Kingdom/Grace, which Paul also taught based on the Mosaic Law:

Acts 14:21-22 When they had preached the gospel to that city and had made many disciples, they returned to Lystra and to Iconium and to Antioch, 22 strengthening the souls of the disciples, encouraging them to continue in the faith, and saying that through many tribulations we must enter the kingdom of God.

Acts 20:24-25 But I do not account my life of any value nor as precious to myself, if only I may finish my course and the ministry that I received from the Lord Jesus, to testify to the gospel of the grace of God. 25 And now, behold, I know that none of you among whom I have gone about proclaiming the kingdom will see my face again.

Acts 28:23 When they had appointed a day for him, they came to him at his lodging in greater numbers. From morning till evening he expounded to them, testifying to the kingdom of God and trying to convince them about Jesus both from the Law of Moses and from the Prophets.

In Psalms 119:29-30, he wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey the Mosaic Law, and he chose the way of faith by setting it before him, so this has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith. Jesus saves us from our sin (Matthew 1:21) and it again is by the Mosaic Law that we have knowledge of what sin is, so Jesus graciously teaching us to be a doer of the Mosaic Law is intrinsically the way that he is giving us his gift of saving us from not being a doer of it and the position that the Mosaic Law is not for Gentiles is also the position that the Gospel is not for Gentiles and that salvation is not for Gentiles.
 
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thank you for the insight, amazing distinction
I love in Phil 3, I gave up the Law (Being under it) to win Christ
Thanks again good to hear from you Musicmaster
I see the dispensation as Father reveals truth deeper and deeper and wider and higher loving us all the entire time from day one of the fall of Adam and Eve
In Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so that doesn't leave room to interpreted Philippians 3:8 as saying that we should focus on knowing Christ instead of being workers of lawfulness. In Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to walk in His way that he and Israel might know Him, so the goal of the Mosaic Law is to teach us how to know God and Jesus, which is His gift of eternal life (John 17:3). Paul had been obeying the Mosaic Law, but not while being focused on knowing Christ, so he had been missing the whole goal of the law, and that is what he counted as rubbish.
 
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Paul's writings are scripture..God breathed. Jesus is God, and Paul's writings are Jesus's writings, His words.

Jesus did not teach a different gospel. Jesus did not teach being saved by faith in Him plus works.

Read the book of John and you'll see its all about being saved by grace thru faith in Jesus.

Following the Law never made a sinner righteous, but it was the way of service in the OT thru that system.

The way of service now is in a NT church, thru the 10 commandments. Again, following them is not binding on eternal salvation.
In Matthew 7:21-23, Jesus said that only those who do the will of the Father will enter the Kingdom of Heaven in contrast with saying that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them. Likewise, in Luke 10:25-28, Jesus affirms that the way to inherit eternal life is by obeying the greatest two commandments.

We can do works that embody our faith such as with James 2:18 saying that he would show his faith though his works or with the examples listed in Hebrews 11, so that is not faith plus works as if faith were insufficient for salvation but that works are the way to embody our faith.

God's law was never given as a way to earn our righteousness even as the result of perfect obedience, but rather it was given as instructions for how to embody God's righteousness. The only way for someone to become righteous is through faith apart from being required to have first done enough righteous works in order to earn it as the result, but what it means to be righteous is to be a doer of righteous works in obedience to God's law (1 John 3:4-7), so it would be contradictory for someone to become righteous apart from becoming a doer of righteous works. This is why the faith by which we are declared righteous apart from works also upholds God's law (Romans 3:31). Everyone who has faith will be declared righteous and everyone who has faith is a doer of God's law, which is how Paul can deny in Romans 4:1-5 that we can earn our righteousness as the result of our works while also affirming in Romans 2:13 that only the doers of God's law will be declared righteous.

While it is true that Abraham was declared righteous because he believed God (Genesis 15:6), it is also true that he was a doer of righteous works because he believed God (Genesis 18:19) and that he offered Isaac because he believed God (Hebrews 11:17), so the faith by which he was declared righteous was also embodied through his works, but he did not earn his righteousness as the result of his works. In James 2:21-24, it quotes Genesis 15:6 to support saying that Abraham was declared righteous by his works when he offered Isaac, that his faith was active along with his works, and his faith completed his works, so he was declared righteous by his works insofar as they embodied his faith but not insofar as they were earning as a wage.

In Psalms 119:29-30, he wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey the Mosaic Law, and he chose the way of faith by setting it before him, so this has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith.
 
In Matthew 7:21-23, Jesus said that only those who do the will of the Father will enter the Kingdom of Heaven in contrast with saying that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them. Likewise, in Luke 10:25-28, Jesus affirms that the way to inherit eternal life is by obeying the greatest two commandments.

We can do works that embody our faith such as with James 2:18 saying that he would show his faith though his works or with the examples listed in Hebrews 11, so that is not faith plus works as if faith were insufficient for salvation but that works are the way to embody our faith.

God's law was never given as a way to earn our righteousness even as the result of perfect obedience, but rather it was given as instructions for how to embody God's righteousness. The only way for someone to become righteous is through faith apart from being required to have first done enough righteous works in order to earn it as the result, but what it means to be righteous is to be a doer of righteous works in obedience to God's law (1 John 3:4-7), so it would be contradictory for someone to become righteous apart from becoming a doer of righteous works. This is why the faith by which we are declared righteous apart from works also upholds God's law (Romans 3:31). Everyone who has faith will be declared righteous and everyone who has faith is a doer of God's law, which is how Paul can deny in Romans 4:1-5 that we can earn our righteousness as the result of our works while also affirming in Romans 2:13 that only the doers of God's law will be declared righteous.

While it is true that Abraham was declared righteous because he believed God (Genesis 15:6), it is also true that he was a doer of righteous works because he believed God (Genesis 18:19) and that he offered Isaac because he believed God (Hebrews 11:17), so the faith by which he was declared righteous was also embodied through his works, but he did not earn his righteousness as the result of his works. In James 2:21-24, it quotes Genesis 15:6 to support saying that Abraham was declared righteous by his works when he offered Isaac, that his faith was active along with his works, and his faith completed his works, so he was declared righteous by his works insofar as they embodied his faith but not insofar as they were earning as a wage.

In Psalms 119:29-30, he wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey the Mosaic Law, and he chose the way of faith by setting it before him, so this has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith.

John 6:40
 
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Paul's writings are scripture..God breathed. Jesus is God, and Paul's writings are Jesus's writings, His words.

Jesus did not teach a different gospel. Jesus did not teach being saved by faith in Him plus works.

Read the book of John and you'll see its all about being saved by grace thru faith in Jesus.

Following the Law never made a sinner righteous, but it was the way of service in the OT thru that system.

The way of service now is in a NT church, thru the 10 commandments. Again, following them is not binding on eternal salvation.

If you would, please reference, or quote, from the book of John, where he stated they of Israel, to whom he preached, were saved by grace through faith without works?

John 1:16-18 — And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace. For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

I agree that grace was extended to those under the Kingdom Gospel, but it was not ever declared to be by grace through faith without the requirement for obedience to water baptism.

Matthew 28:19-20 — Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Acts 2:41 KJV — Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

Paul's gospel laid down no teaching for requirement unto water baptism for salvation by way of remitting sins. Peter, however, did specifically teach the work of effort by way of water baptism for remission of sins for salvation, which is consistent with Jesus' teach along with the twelve (Acts 2:38).

Thanks.

MM
 
Is the 'salvation' in Jesus: #4 the earthly salvation of Israel and the 'salvation' in Paul: #4 an individual's eternal salvation?

If I understand your question correctly, there is no salvation "...in Paul." Please correct me if I'm not derstanding your meaning, but that's what I read in your question.

Additionally, Jesus spoke much about the Kingdom, which was represented and manifested in His very presence. The Pharisees asked him when the Kingdom would come, and He stated that it was right there in their midst, being His Person. Dare we read what Jesus' godpel, we read where He said for them to repent, for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand:

Matthew 4:17 — From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

It may seem strange that He didn't talk as much about salvation as He did about the Kingdom. Why? We of Israel were fixated more on the promised Kingdom since we already understood our assurance of salvation by faith demonstrated through our works of obedience to the Law. We too were saved by His graciousness toward us, but back then it was based upon a wodks-based demonstration of our faith. None of the body of Christ today is under that requirement. We're now saved by grace alone through faith alone by Christ alone. True salvation is now the source of our good works rather than works as the prerequisite proof of our faith as was preached by James and the twelve to Israel.

MM
 
John 6:40
In Matthew 7:21-23, Jesus said that only those who do the will of the Father will enter the Kingdom of Heaven in contrast with saying that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so there is no need to ignore the context and jump to another book in order to figure out that the will of the Father is for us to be workers of lawfulness and our entrance into the Kingdom of Heaven requires us to be workers of lawfulness not in order to earn it but because that is the way to know Jesus. Moreover, in Matthew 7:24, Jesus said that whoever hears his words and does them is like a man who builds his house upon a rock, so it is disingenuous to cite John 6:40 as if it implies that it is not the will of the Father to be obeyed, especially when the way to believe in the Son is by being workers of lawfulness. In John 3:18-21 and 3:36, it connects our belief in the Son with our deeds. Likewise, I’m Revelation 14:12, those who kept faith in Jesus are the same as those who kept God’s commandments.
 
In Matthew 7:21-23, Jesus said that only those who do the will of the Father will enter the Kingdom of Heaven in contrast with saying that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them. Likewise, in Luke 10:25-28, Jesus affirms that the way to inherit eternal life is by obeying the greatest two commandments.

Any time works is required as the operative validation for faith, that is works-based. Many of usnwho were and are of Israel knew we were not saved by the Law and works of the Law. We understood that we were required to demonstrate our faith through attempts at perfect obedidnce to the works requirements. Peter continued that requirement through the work of water baptism in Acts 2:38. Yes, water baptism is a work because one has to put forth effort to be baptized. Faith alone requires no work of effort through our body, but is an inner change from disbelief.

To say that the Kingdom Gospel was not works-based is like saying one got to the grocery store to get food for survival without any work of effort. James made it clear that works were absolutely required to establish one's faith under the Kingdom Gospel preached to Israel.

MM
 
In Matthew 7:21-23, Jesus said that only those who do the will of the Father will enter the Kingdom of Heaven in contrast with saying that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so there is no need to ignore the context and jump to another book in order to figure out that the will of the Father is for us to be workers of lawfulness and our entrance into the Kingdom of Heaven requires us to be workers of lawfulness not in order to earn it but because that is the way to know Jesus. Moreover, in Matthew 7:24, Jesus said that whoever hears his words and does them is like a man who builds his house upon a rock, so it is disingenuous to cite John 6:40 as if it implies that it is not the will of the Father to be obeyed, especially when the way to believe in the Son is by being workers of lawfulness. In John 3:18-21 and 3:36, it connects our belief in the Son with our deeds. Likewise, I’m Revelation 14:12, those who kept faith in Jesus are the same as those who kept God’s commandments.

Personally, I don't want to be in the Kingdom because I would have to be an unbeliever right now, survive through the horrors of the tribulation to become a believer to THEN enter into that Kingdom. No thanks. You may not believe in the rapture, but I do. If you want to stay here, then go for it. Not me.

MM
 
If you would, please reference, or quote, from the book of John, where he stated they of Israel, to whom he preached, were saved by grace through faith without works?

John 1:16-18 — And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace. For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

I agree that grace was extended to those under the Kingdom Gospel, but it was not ever declared to be by grace through faith without the requirement for obedience to water baptism.

Matthew 28:19-20 — Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Acts 2:41 KJV — Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

Paul's gospel laid down no teaching for requirement unto water baptism for salvation by way of remitting sins. Peter, however, did specifically teach the work of effort by way of water baptism for remission of sins for salvation, which is consistent with Jesus' teach along with the twelve (Acts 2:38).

Thanks.

MM

Paul warned Christians to beware of Judaizers, who revert to teaching justification by observing the law (Gal. 4:8-5:12). In Phil. 3:1-9 Paul said, “Finally, my brothers, rejoice in the Lord!… Watch out for those… mutilators of the flesh. For it is we who are the circumcision [cf. Rom. 2:29]… If anyone else thinks he has reasons to put confidence in the flesh, I have more:… in regard to the law, a Pharisee… as for legalistic righteousness, faultless. But whatever was to my profit I now consider loss for the sake of Christ… I consider them rubbish, that I may gain Christ and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ–that comes from God and is by faith.”

However, some people (“Actsists”) focus on events in Acts such as WB and glossolalia rather than on teachings in the epistles about faith/SB being what is essential (“Faithists”). The book of Acts does not teach foundational Christian doctrine but merely records what occurred during the early days of the church era as the revelation of GRFS transitioned from OT beliefs to the NT doctrine that is taught in the epistles, which never command WB or tongues as signs of SB or as essential for salvation.

The transition can be seen as occurring in Acts 16:31-34, where Paul told the jailer to believe in the Lord Jesus in order to be saved, NOT to believe and be WB in order to be saved. However, the jailer and others in his family who believed in God were WB. Then in Acts 17:30-34 Paul told the Athenians to repent, which some did, but whether they were WB is not mentioned. In Acts 19:1-6 Paul encountered some disciples of John who had been WB but had not been taught about SB, so they received SB when Paul placed his hands on them. Then in Acts 26:16-18, when Paul recounted his calling to King Agrippa, he quoted Jesus as saying, “I am sending you to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.” WB was not mentioned, which continued to be the case in Paul’s epistles.

The foundation cited in 1Corinthisans 3:11 is Christ, referring to faith in Christ’s atonement (Rom. 3:12-5:1). Instructions about baptisms are mentioned in Hebrews 6:2, which logically, semantically, and mathematically had to be that WB is a sign or rite portraying a soul has been SB (Col. 2:12), since there is only one baptism (Eph. 4:5) into one body (Eph. 4:4, 1Cor. 12:13). This understanding was held by Christians generally until RC perverted it by practicing infant sprinkling, which was corrected by the Anabaptists during the Protestant Reformation.

By the last of Paul’s epistles, WB came to be understood as a good but non-essential work or rite, like physical circumcision (PT), and the basis for believing folks are filled with the HS is reflecting God’s love for everyone (Matt. 22:37-40, 1John 4:7-21, John 13:35, Rom. 5:5, Gal. 5:6 & 22, etc.). We can see this indicated by Hebrews 8:13, which says the new covenant supersedes or makes obsolete the old covenant, including the ceremonial washings (baptisms).

Then, like now, the rite of WB is rightly performed as an apt or good way of portraying saving faith in the atonement of Christ, even though the work is not required, just as PT was not required for salvation either (per Paul in Romans 3:21-5:1). WB replaced PT in the NT church per Col. 2:11-12, which says, “In Christ you were also circumcised, in the putting off of the sinful nature, not with a PT done by the hands of men but with the circumcision done by Christ (SB), having been buried with him in baptism and raised with him through your faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead.” Surely Paul did not mean to suggest that WB done by the hands of men is salvific!
 
If you would, please reference, or quote, from the book of John, where he stated they of Israel, to whom he preached, were saved by grace through faith without works?

John 1:16-18 — And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace. For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

I agree that grace was extended to those under the Kingdom Gospel, but it was not ever declared to be by grace through faith without the requirement for obedience to water baptism.

Matthew 28:19-20 — Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Acts 2:41 KJV — Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

Paul's gospel laid down no teaching for requirement unto water baptism for salvation by way of remitting sins. Peter, however, did specifically teach the work of effort by way of water baptism for remission of sins for salvation, which is consistent with Jesus' teach along with the twelve (Acts 2:38).

Thanks.

MM

Baptism for the remission of sins is regarding being baptized 'for' as in 'because of ' . Because you already have remission of sins thru Jesus's payment for your sins.

Acts 2:38 has to harmonize with John 3:16, 3:36, 5:24, 6:40 etc..

Peter doesn't have a different gospel to Paul. Water baptism is a symbol/representation of salvation, not part of it. Just like taking medicine 'for' a cold. The cold is there before the medicine.

Also, check what the adding was in Acts 2:41. You will find this is already converted people joining the church. Or the other way to look at it is the receiving being the condition, not the water baptism.
 
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Baptism for the remission of sins is regarding being baptized 'for' as in 'because of ' . Because you already have remission of sins thru Jesus's payment for your sins.

Acts 2:38 has to harmonize with John 3:16, 3:36, 5:24, 6:40 etc..

Peter doesn't have a different gospel to Paul. Water baptism is a symbol/representation of salvation, not part of it. Just like taking medicine 'for' a cold. The cold is there before the medicine.

Also, check what the adding was in Acts 2:41. You will find this is already converted people joining the church. Or the other way to look at it is the receiving being the condition, not the water baptism.

That seems to contradict what Peter actually said:

Acts 2:38 — Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

The "for" in this grammatical construct from the Greek speaks directly to the purpose for the water baptism. In other words, when one was able to strive toward obedience to Peter's command to be water baptized FOR the remission of sins, choosing to NOT obey that command would be a matter of rejecting the remission of sins, which would not bode well for that individual.

Please explain further your position on this element that Paul nowhere commanded for the remission of sins.

Thanks

MM