Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

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sawdust said:
C'mon, I'm sure you cant be that stupid.

Let us look together shall we?

Luke 1:76-77
And you, child, will be called the prophet of the Most High;
for you will go before the Lord to prepare his ways,
77 to give knowledge of salvation to his people
by the forgiveness of their sins.

Who is the child Zechariah is speaking of that will go before the Lord and prepare the way and give knowledge of salvation? Hint, it is not Jesus Christ.

Of course John could give knowledge of salvation. What do you think we are doing every time we preach the Gospel? I explained to you the knowledge here is gnosis, it is factual information regarding the way of salvation. It is not epignosis which, is what one has in salvation.

It is not saying John will forgive sin, it is saying John will speak of the One to come who can forgive sin and hence be able to save and we see him doing exactly this in Luke 3.

Luke 3:15-17
15 As the people were filled with expectation, and all were questioning in their hearts concerning John, whether he might be the Messiah, 16 John answered all of them by saying, “I baptize you with water; but one who is more powerful than I is coming; I am not worthy to untie the thong of his sandals. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. 17 His winnowing fork is in his hand, to clear his threshing floor and to gather the wheat into his granary; but the chaff he will burn with unquenchable fire.”

John was letting them know what was coming and Who was bringing it.

Try reading without your preconceived lens and see that it is John the Baptist vs.76&77 are speaking of and not the Lord Jesus Christ.
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Who is the child Zechariah is speaking of that will go before the Lord and prepare the way and give knowledge of salvation? Hint, it is not Jesus Christ.

Clearly. And the thing is, @rogerg has conjured up a monstrous doctrinal nightmare out of that one identity error.
 
rogerg said:
Not in order to become saved. Belief comes after salvation, not before. Salvation is freely given to those
whom the Father chose for it. That's the point of Luke 1:77 - we're saved, and from that given knowledge/edified about salvation.
You didn't understand that verse?

This might clarify:
[Luk 1:79 KJV] 79 To give light to them that sit in darkness and [in] the shadow of death, to guide our feet into the way of peace.
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And...John the Baptist was commissioned by God to give the knowledge of salvation to GOD'S PEOPLE (v. 77) -- not to the ungodly world. And God has come to redeem HIS people (v. 68) -- not all mankind w/o exception.

What's also very interesting is that the term "from" in vv. 68-74 is used three times (vv. 71-74).

And what's even more instructive is that God rescues his people FROM the hand of their enemies so that they will be able TO serve the Lord without fear all the days of their life (vv.74-75). God rescues from the hand of his people's enemies just like he rescued the Colossian Church from Darkness (Col 1:13-14).

Just this one Lukian passage alone is devastating to FWT!
 
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Jordon said:
This little monkey says if you had the same will of God you could do this 🙂

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Who says man's free will is the same will as God's? I have stated quite clearly our will can do little more than reveal who we are, our desires, plans etc.

When one starts from a wrong premise, one can guarantee disagreements and misunderstandings.
 
cv5 said:
No, but rather evidence of their woeful biblical illiteracy and devastating ignorance. Basically they are at the level of "flashcard" bible scholarship.

They see a single solitary word like "appointed" or "predestined" and instantly enter into a drooling Reformed zombified state of mental rigor mortis. And then comes the rapid-fire regurgitating of Reformed verses that they absolutely do not comprehend.

The fact is, nobody in the Reformed camp will dare speak to the Passover pattern (and circumcision requirement), Jewish wedding protocol pattern, the Day of Atonement pattern, the pattern of Jacobs wrestling, the pattern of the parable of the prodigal son, parable of the two sons, the parable of the treasure and pearl and endless other examples that indicate full awareness, willful initiative, willful conscious repentance, willful commitment and so on and so forth.

They are in rebellion against the intentional core message of the Bible and replace it with vain, doomer philosophical garbage meant to enslave the weak minded and dominate the weak willed.

But Jesus Himself, Who knows the thoughts and intents of the heart, will render just judgement and settle the score inevitably.

Mat 23:13
But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

Mat 23:15
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.
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so evidently over the top of from you as always, which actually I could say your entire faith is based on ruling out words in the bible which isn't really bright at all.

But his word is clear, that whilst your a rolling stone gathering no moss and chucking stones all over the place Willy nilly.

His words says no stone will be left unturned.

Which means his will is way above your will. 🙂
 
sawdust said:
You are the one who said He is a potential Saviour, not me.
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Since it's man's will that is efficacious in a sinner's salvation, then if this is true, this clearly implies that God/Christ is only a potential Savior since all God does is give everyone on the planet EQUAL opportunity to choose to be saved. God doesn't choose anyone to be saved because His will is contingent on vile, wicked, depraved sinners' decisions.
 
sawdust said:
Who says man's free will is the same will as God's? I have stated quite clearly our will can do little more than reveal who we are, our desires, plans etc.

When one starts from a wrong premise, one can guarantee disagreements and misunderstandings.
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my conviction was to make you believe that what your writing is not always correct 🙂
 
Rufus said:
And...John the Baptist was commissioned by God to give the knowledge of salvation to GOD'S PEOPLE (v. 77) -- not to the ungodly world. And God has come to redeem HIS people (v. 68) -- not all mankind w/o exception.
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Yes and God's people in that context was Israel not the whole world. That would come later when the disciples were sent into all the world.
 
sawdust said:
So you can tell me I'm thinking with my flesh and not spiritually but I can't tell you your thinking is silly?

Fine, take your ball and leave the playground. No skin off my nose mate.
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are all the Aussie girls as tuff as you lol 😂
 
Rufus said:
Since it's man's will that is efficacious in a sinner's salvation, then if this is true, this clearly implies that God/Christ is only a potential Savior since all God does is give everyone on the planet EQUAL opportunity to choose to be saved. God doesn't choose anyone to be saved because His will is contingent on vile, wicked, depraved sinners' decisions.
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But man's will is not what saves and it has been told to you many, many times. It is God who has determined to save believers not men. You can believe till the cows can home, it will not get you saved unless the Lord God acts.
 
sawdust said:
And there has been just as many posts providing evidence of the opposite, that grace frees our will from the confines of the flesh so we can decide for ourselves what we will believe.
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you mean like this one @Magenta that once again just sails past God making a person believe, whilst only seeing yourself 🙂
 
cv5 said:
If you actually studied the original tongues, the Jewish mindset, near-east though patterns etc. you would rightly comprehend the Bible (codified in mnemonics many times) patterns and message. And you wouldn't be stuck in your Calvinist dungeon of ignorance.

Categorically the Reformed/Calvinists are for all intents and purposes 100% wrong 100% of the time. It's truly an amazing phenomenon to behold. But this is to be expected if you are looking for Reformed dogma in every verse when in fact none exists anywhere.

Interestingly, there are many Calvinists on this thread that have never exegeted one solitary verse correctly by my reckoning.

And FYI, the Passover pattern and Jewish wedding protocol pattern utterly destroy Calvinism. And you haven't the foggiest idea of why.
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Since that is the case, you're not saying very much.
 
sawdust said:
Yes and God's people in that context was Israel not the whole world. That would come later when the disciples were sent into all the world.
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The prophecy of Zacharias extends all the way to the end-time salvation/redemption of the nation Israel IMO.
Same goes for Peter quoting Joel 2:28-32 in Acts 2. Tons of people are confused about that prophecy. Needlessly so.
 
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Jordon said:
my conviction was to make you believe that what your writing is not always correct 🙂
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I do my own thinking. Your words can't convict me of anything. You ought to look at yourself to find the errors, not others. The Lord will take care of His own.
 
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