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Can We Really Exercise Free Will?
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Oh God help us, Mr Willy nilly is of on one again, it won't be long before he gets his Calvinist bashing stick out again.
Yep does satan give you a choice to believe when he has your powerful free will under control ?
It seems none of the free willers can answer this question
By my reckoning thus far you have been 100% wrong 100% of the time about 100% of everything. And you are keeping some very bad company as well.
God has proven objective free will by the agency of Satan quite conclusively by similar ways and means.
The Calvinists remain blind to these intentional Biblical proofs. Nothing new there....
yep just checked my post count,God has proven objective free will by the agency of Satan quite conclusively by similar ways and means.
The Calvinists remain blind to these intentional Biblical proofs. Nothing new there....
At least 4000 posts I've made to this discussion all pointing in the same direction, and all of them illustrating God makes a person believes, whilst all along putting up with the likes of you, and all along not one of you free will crowd acknowledging thousands of scriptures and detailed understandings, provided.
All you have done is label me, condem me, how I feel about you now, is God doesn't exist when I'm talking to you.
You said only believers are given power post#31,247. I pointed out it takes power to be regenerated. You said it only takes the Spirit, no mention of the power required. Now you want to tell me you were only ever talking about the power of the Gospel even though what began this conversation was I said grace is God's power to effect His will. I never suggested I was speaking of Gospel power alone but that evidently, is how you interpreted my words. And now you call me dishonest.
grace and peace
I have always said grace comes first but that does not answer the question of whether God makes us believe or whether we believe of our own volition.
Romans 1:16-19
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
the gospel is preached ... at which point it is no longer hidden.
those who believe the gospel of Christ, which is the power of God unto salvation, receive the benefit.
those who suppress the truth in unrightousness receive the consequence of suppressing the truth ... for God hath shewed it unto them
the words "hath shewed" are translated from the Greek word phaneroō which means illumine, make manifest (visible); (figuratively) make plain, in open view; to become apparent ("graspable") HELPS Word-studies.
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Romans 10:14-18
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.
according to vs 18 ... yes, they hear ...
according to vs 16 ... they do not obey the gospel because they do not believe the report. They reject the report because they suppress the truth in unrighteousness.
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again, brightfame52 ...
the first time the gospel was preached to you the gospel was not hidden ... the gospel was revealed to you. At that point, you either believed or suppressed the truth in unrighteousness. That was your doing.
Hebrews 4:2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
the unbeliever hears the gospel ... at which point it is not hidden.
the gospel does not "profit" the ones who do not believe ... those who suppress the truth in unrighteousness ... the ones who suppress the truth in unrighteousness remain unchanged.
the gospel "profits" the one who believes ... the gospel of Christ is the power of God unto salvation ... the one who believes is born again at the time he or she believes the gospel of Christ.
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Oh good and at least you also provided scripture illustrating Gods enabling grace, which is more than I can say for others here,
However your choice to God is nothing without God in your heart. and God is there when you make his choice, God was there when you seeked him, God was there even when you never knew he wasnt, God is there for everyone even when there lost unsaved hes there, drawing people, sending messages light wisdom intervention guidance. Holding up a hedge of protection until they see the son.
God is everywhere.
All this talk about choice may be worth something in the right hands, and in the right hands choice is good, choice as good qualities choice as freedom hope, all that stuff,
But in wrong hands, yeah take a look at the 4000 replies to my posts
Abraham called God by certain names (titles):
Jehovah - Gen 12:1
El Elyon - Gen 14:22
Adonai - Gen 15:2
Elohim - Gen 17:3
El Shaddai - Gen 17:1
Jehovah-Rapha - Gen 20:17
El Olam - Gen 21:33
Jehovahjireh - Gen 22:14
The Hebrew name (title) for the Lord Jesus Christ is Yeshua HaMashiach. Abraham never called God by that name ... what Scripture tells us is that Abraham foresaw His day ... God revealed Him to Abraham ... and Abraham was glad to see His day (John 8:56).
The disciples of the Lord Jesus Christ were physically present with Him ... they ate with Him ... they slept with Him ... they physically walked with Him ... they physically touched Him ... these were all things Abraham did not do. Abraham "saw" His day in the same way you and I "see" the day of our future dwelling with Him, at which point we also shall see Him face to face, just as His disciples did.Jordon said:
Here was divine intervention at the time God imputed righteousness to Abraham:Jordon said:
Genesis 15:1-6
1 After these things the word of the LORD came unto Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not, Abram: I am thy shield, and thy exceeding great reward.
2 And Abram said, Lord GOD, what wilt thou give me, seeing I go childless, and the steward of my house is this Eliezer of Damascus?
3 And Abram said, Behold, to me thou hast given no seed: and, lo, one born in my house is mine heir.
4 And, behold, the word of the LORD came unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir.
5 And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be.
6 And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.
The word of the Lord came to Abraham ... Abraham believed ... God counted it to Abraham for righteousness.
have no idea where you're going with this Jordon ...Jordon said:
Abraham believed God ... saw the day of the Lord Jesus Christ according to John 8:56 ... yay!!!
you believe God ... yay!!!
I believe God ... yay!!!
One day we will be with Abraham in eternity ... yay!!!
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abram was chosen to keep the way of the lord.Abraham called God by certain names (titles):
Jehovah - Gen 12:1
El Elyon - Gen 14:22
Adonai - Gen 15:2
Elohim - Gen 17:3
El Shaddai - Gen 17:1
Jehovah-Rapha - Gen 20:17
El Olam - Gen 21:33
Jehovahjireh - Gen 22:14
The Hebrew name (title) for the Lord Jesus Christ is Yeshua HaMashiach. Abraham never called God by that name ... what Scripture tells us is that Abraham foresaw His day ... God revealed Him to Abraham ... and Abraham was glad to see His day (John 8:56).
The disciples of the Lord Jesus Christ were physically present with Him ... they ate with Him ... they slept with Him ... they physically walked with Him ... they physically touched Him ... these were all things Abraham did not do. Abraham "saw" His day in the same way you and I "see" the day of our future dwelling with Him, at which point we also shall see Him face to face, just as His disciples did.
Here was divine intervention at the time God imputed righteousness to Abraham:
Genesis 15:1-6
1 After these things the word of the LORD came unto Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not, Abram: I am thy shield, and thy exceeding great reward.
2 And Abram said, Lord GOD, what wilt thou give me, seeing I go childless, and the steward of my house is this Eliezer of Damascus?
3 And Abram said, Behold, to me thou hast given no seed: and, lo, one born in my house is mine heir.
4 And, behold, the word of the LORD came unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir.
5 And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be.
6 And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.
The word of the Lord came to Abraham ... Abraham believed ... God counted it to Abraham for righteousness.
have no idea where you're going with this Jordon ...
Abraham believed God ... saw the day of the Lord Jesus Christ according to John 8:56 ... yay!!!
you believe God ... yay!!!
I believe God ... yay!!!
One day we will be with Abraham in eternity ... yay!!!
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God's grace enables us to make the choice but He doesn't make the choice for us. You seemed to be saying before that He did make us believe? So which is? Does God make us believe or do we believe of our own volition when given enabling grace and presented with His truth?