144,000: The first resurrection and rapture of the church
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I like this. Sounds good. The Israel of God full of natural lineage in the OT, through His risen Son Jesus Christ, has now become the NT Israel of God full of spiritual lineage. The fulness of both natural Jews and Gentiles.
Natural Israel after the flesh, of course, remains full of natural lineage alone, but is no longer the sole Israel of God on earth. Natural Israelite Jews are not only a remaining part of the Israel of God, along with a remnant of natural gentiles.
For as it was in the OT Israel, so also with the NT Israel: Not all that are born of natural Israel after the flesh, are Israel of God in the Spirit:
Rom 9:6
For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel. Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
Gal 4:28
Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise...born after the Spirit.
QUOTE="ChristRoseFromTheDead, post: 5641588, member: 334825"]
ie, that remainder of living stones in God's temple numbering as the stars of heaven that was promised to Abraham that Israel failed to fulfill.[/QUOTE]
Well said. Which is now fulfilled in the Israel of God by Jesus Christ.
Zec 6:12
And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh the LORD of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The BRANCH; and he shall grow up out of his place, and he shall build the temple of the LORD:
Luk 3:8
Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
1 Cor{3:16}
Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and [that] the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which [temple] ye are.
1Pe 2:5
Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
They and the beasts sang that new song.
Rev 14:3
And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
the 144,000 sing a new song also, before the elders and the beasts, which only they could learn. Which implies not the elders and the beasts.
So no, It doesn't look like Scripture transposing 24 into 144,000, nor even 24 being part of 144,000. Nor the beasts...
You're correct. Attention to detail. Just reading about news songs in the same prophecy, doesn't mean they are the same songs, nor sang by the same singers.
Exactly. And said him being a Jew had nothing to do with being a redeemed Christian in the body of Christ.
Gal 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
The same as Jesus:
Jhn 6:63
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
Us reading and following his words is us following Christ's doctrine given to His Christians by His Christian apostles, and written by His Christian writers, whether Jew or Greek, Paul or Luke.
grabbing onto the skirt of a Jew in the Millennium and following him to the Lord's house. Prophecy fulfilled.
grabbing onto the skirt of a Jew and following him. Prophecy fulfilled of a Jew slapping away the hands of the grabber...And maybe arrested by an Israeli cop. (And interrogated as a possible terrorist.)
This is what happens when people spiritualize away the physical sense of things, into nonsense. (And dangerous behavior)
He called himself a Jew, circumcised by law, leader of the Pharisees and persecutor of the church of Jesus Christ.
Phil 3:4
Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:
Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;
Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
Is that the skirt your grabbing and following? Need to be circumcised first, if not already.
Phl 3:7
But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
Paul called all such things lost dung. But you still want to grab hold and follow along in them to the dungheap?
As I've said before. It's all very interested how deep we can dig ourselves into a ditch, in order to keep our favorite pet teaching, that Scripture rejects.
That's ludicrous. That's like saying an adopted British child becomes a Jew, Indian, Chinese, negro in the family of adoption.
Ok. It's always just a matter of time. When someone's pet argument keeps getting turned aside, then personal resentment takes over in ludicrous outcries. The more favorite the pet, the more loud and ludicrous the outcry...
"Why YOU! You're an...Anti-Adoptite!!!" Hilarious. Reminds me of Sienfeld being called and Anit-dentite.
Exactly. And the law of the nation was one law for all, whether native-born, adopted, or stranger.
Adopted Israelites were not native-born of Judah, Issacar, Joseph, Danites, Gadites...Their children of Fanties, Gadites, etc...are native-born.
Falsehood added to false teaching, to make it even more false. If it were possible...Nothing is said of any foreigners departing with them. Especially not any Egyptian: Every firstborn son of every Egyptian died that night.
Exo 12:30
And Pharaoh rose up in the night, he, and all his servants, and all the Egyptians; and there was a great cry in Egypt; for there was not a house where there was not one dead.
Exo 12:33
And the Egyptians were urgent upon the people, that they might send them out of the land in haste; for they said, We be all dead men.
The only tribes encamped in the wilderness were Hebrew children of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
It just keeps getting more and more interesting, the deeper and deeper it goes. Keep it up. Now I'm really interested to see what else.
Ok, so what? You want to be Jew? IS that it? No problem.
Other than the fact that your new adoptive Jewish father, will first have to explain to you, his new dearly adopted child, that you are a complete full member of the Israeli family, with all the rights, inheritances, and citizenship thereof. BUT, you won't be a Jew. Nor the child of a Jewish tribe. Sorry, son. Well, that's sort of reserved for natural birth. But hey, you find a nice Jewish girl to marry and have kids, then they will certainly be all Jews...unlike you. Sorry again.
The conversation is about the prophecy that states 10 gentiles will take hold of the skirt of a Jew and say "We will follow you for we have heard that God is with you". We do that every day because Paul and Jesus were Jews.
Upon His resurrection He was no longer a Jew.
14 For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, 15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, 16 and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity.
Christians do but Jews of Judaism are also Messianic but reject Jesus because they believe someone else is the Messiah.
Without understanding the two covenants, and the two wives of God and Jesus, escatology will only be a superficial understanding.
The bible ends with the bride and groom.
The words the Holy Spirit imparts at tge end are the weightless of tge bible.
The parting words are the bride and groom.
I am among a scary few that put that on the table.
The core, center, foundation, and obsession of heaven is the bride and groom.
The elephant in the room is the missing main ingredient.
Nobody even touches it.
The rapture is the gathering of the bride.
(RUTH)
SMH.
...he definitely called himself a Jew.
And the Jews " my brethren ".
He identified himself as BOTH Jew and believer in the New Covenant.
Both.
He’s also a male, Roman citizen, and a mortal. None are true in Christ.
You’re lacking contextual understanding. How can I help you understand?
So if you are saved your drivers license says "saved in Christ" VS "male" or "female"
You are TOTALLY MISSING not only context but have no realization of the FACT I can say both.
There is DEFINATELY MALE AND FEMALE BORN AGAIN SAINTS IN EVERY CHURCH.
Ahem...your sex is your body parts.
What you are trying to understand is that GOD SEES US AS SAVED IN CHRIST....NO MATTER IF YOU ARE MALE, FEMALE, JEW OR GREEK...ALL ARE WELCOME.
Neither ETHNICITY, OR SEX, ARE QUALIFIERS.
"Let not a woman be in rulership over a man"
Did Paul also not understand what you are telling me?
Did Paul take the Holy Spirit out of context?
Correct. No Greek in the OT and NT uses Zιών.
I accept the translative correction, because I was not clear.
Prophets and apostles using Zion and Sion in the Bible is not just academic, but prophetic by the Spirit: All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
Here's the explanation:
There is only one place in the OT, with the Hebrew is Sion, rather than Tsion:
Deu 4:48
From Aroer, which is by the bank of the river Arnon, even unto mount Sion, which is Hermon,
And Mt Sion from the beginning is not Mt Zion. The two mounts are not interchangeable, either in location nor in features.
The use of English Sion in all but Deut 4:48, is from the Hebrew translatively incorrect. But, the use of English Sion in the NT is always from the Greek translatively correct.
All English translators using Zion in Deut 4:48, are grammatically wrong, and always grammatically wrong in the NT.
The NT Greek writers wrote Σιών, rather than Zιών, on purpose. There is no inherent cause to say the NT Apostles meant Hebrew Tsion, and not Sion. They were guided by the Holy Ghost, and not academically following a 'Septuagint tradition'. None of the NT Writers using Σιών were Greek, but rather were all NT Jewish Hebrews writing by the risen Jesus Christ.
They were not merely Hebrew-Greek scholars translating a New Testament 'Septuagint', but were with the prophets holy men of God writing Scripture of God:
2Pe 1:20
For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
Mount Sion written once in OT Hebrew and always in NT Greek, is prophecy of Christ, not just grammatical letters.
Heb {12:22}
But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven,
Rev 14:1
And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
2Sa 5:7
Nevertheless David took the strong hold of Zion: the same is the city of David.
Mt Sion of heavenly Jerusalem is always Scripturally distinct from earthly Mt Zion of this Jerusalem, which begins in Deut 4:48, and continues with certain other Scriptures of prophecy:
Isa 59:20
And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the LORD.
Rom 11:26
And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
The difference is not just grammatical, which would make the two prophecies contradict, but rather is prophetic of the Redeemer Jesus Christ come first in the flesh to Zion, and comes a second time the resurrected Deliverer out of Sion.
Jer 9:11And I will make Jerusalem heaps, and a den of dragons; and I will make the cities of Judah desolate, without an inhabitant.
Mic 3:12
Therefore shall Zion for your sake be plowed as a field, and Jerusalem shall become heaps, and the mountain of the house as the high places of the forest.
Isa 33:14
The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?
Lam 1:4
The ways of Zion do mourn, because none come to the solemn feasts: all her gates are desolate: her priests sigh, her virgins are afflicted, and she is in bitterness.
Lam 5:18
Because of the mountain of Zion, which is desolate, the foxes walk upon it.
Mt Zion of the earthly Jerusalem, which has been sacked and desolate of God and His people, is not the Mt Sion of the heavenly, where the Lord is the established cornerstone, all the saints are coming to, and the Lamb standing thereon.
Mount Sion is revealed from the beginning not to be Mount Zion in location, in features, nor in history. Mt Sion in Scripture is never ignobly devastated, but is always blessed of the LORD.
That is why the King James once interprets OT Hebrew Tsion into Sion, and all NT writers confirm Sion to be always the blessed Mount of God and the Lamb.
Psa 65:1
[[To the chief Musician, A Psalm and Song of David.]] Praise waiteth for thee, O God, in Sion: and unto thee shall the vow be performed.
Correct. I was wrongly mixing grammatical translation with scriptural interpretation. Thanks.