Should the church preach the gospel?

[Dino246]

No, there's a difference between falling short of God's absolute perfection (making honest mistakes) verses living after the flesh doing things God's Word calls out as being sinful behavior.

Sin is sin. Making mistakes is not sin.

Jesus never made any mistakes at all

Really? Where is that in Scripture?

What about the rapist that gets saved? It's all good as long as he rapes a few less women each week?

You seem to think that once someone becomes a Christian, they are either incapable of wrongdoing or they remain a reprobate sinner. Do you understand the concept of sanctification? Do you think it is immediate and complete? Or do you equate incomplete sanctification with continuing to commit rape?

 

[wattie]

No, there's a difference between falling short of God's absolute perfection (making honest mistakes) verses living after the flesh doing things God's Word calls out as being sinful behavior.

There is a sin that is not unto death (death being separation from God)

1 John 5:17,18
All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.
We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

Those born of God keep themselves IN Christ and aren't enraging in sinful behavior that are sins unto death (separation from God)

That doesn't mean they are perfect in the literal sense as sometimes that could forget to do something or drops something on the floor or other similar mistakes that are the result of not being perfect in the literal sense (Jesus never made any mistakes at all)






I see, so when the child molester gets saved - he molests fewer children than before and God is accepting of him as they guy continues living in grievous sin?

What about the rapist that gets saved? It's all good as long as he rapes a few less women each week?

You're going to extremes, its not about works. Its about the efficacy and sufficiency of Jesus payment for your sins.

 

[CS1]

In other words if we sow to the flesh (sin) we don't reap corruption as Gal 6:7,8 teaches?

Not being morally upright means we are lying, stealing, etc etc which is sowing to the flesh and is in fact sinful behavior.

When people are taught such false doctrines they tend to believe they can live in sin and still be in right standing with the Lord which is doctrines of devils because this is not what the Lord teaches in His Word

The Holy Spirit never leads anybody to be immoral and actually empowers Christians to walk upright so the good works are actually coming from the Holy Spirit. It is our responsibility to yield to the Holy Spirit to be led of the Lord which results in good works.

Refusing to be led of the Lord results in walking after the flesh which causes people to disqualify themselves from salvation because the Lord is no longer their first love having turned away from the Lord to live for self (sin)

It's a real shame that some many have been deceived by so called once saved always saved fake gospel, but it's to be expected as the Lord warned about this in the end times.





But the fake gospel teachers say they are still saved as they turn away from the Lord to live in sin.

you believe you do not sin but make mistakes correct?

 

[wattie]

No, there's a difference between falling short of God's absolute perfection (making honest mistakes) verses living after the flesh doing things God's Word calls out as being sinful behavior.

There is a sin that is not unto death (death being separation from God)

1 John 5:17,18
All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.
We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

Those born of God keep themselves IN Christ and aren't enraging in sinful behavior that are sins unto death (separation from God)

That doesn't mean they are perfect in the literal sense as sometimes that could forget to do something or drops something on the floor or other similar mistakes that are the result of not being perfect in the literal sense (Jesus never made any mistakes at all)






I see, so when the child molester gets saved - he molests fewer children than before and God is accepting of him as they guy continues living in grievous sin?

What about the rapist that gets saved? It's all good as long as he rapes a few less women each week?

The rapist would have the Holy Spirit in their spirit, who would convict and rebuke so they flee that past sinful way.

 

[JohnRH]

Should the local church preach the gospel to its congregation? The gospel of Jesus Christ is how he died for our sins, was buried, and rose again on the third day. Shouldn't those in the local assembly already have this checked off? Isn't church about equipping the saints through the preaching of the word to walk as children of light? When people hear the same message over and over, they do not mature in their faith but remain babes in Christ.

Thoughts??

I always hear people calling the gospel "good news". I prefer the broader term "good message" (euangelion). It's not always news, but it's always a message.
So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also. Romans 1:15 (KJV)
It seems that the book of Romans is an elaboration of the good message written to already-saved people.

 

[Dino246]

I always hear people calling the gospel "good news". I prefer the broader term "good message" (euangelion). It's not always news, but it's always a message.
So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also. Romans 1:15 (KJV)
It seems that the book of Romans is an elaboration of the good message written to already-saved people.

Agreed, though Paul uses "gospel" to mean the full scope of his teaching, not just the basic salvation message.

 

[John146]

I always hear people calling the gospel "good news". I prefer the broader term "good message" (euangelion). It's not always news, but it's always a message.
So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also. Romans 1:15 (KJV)
It seems that the book of Romans is an elaboration of the good message written to already-saved people.

Paul wanted to preach the gospel that he also may share in some fruit there in Rome.

Romans 1:
13 Now I would not have you ignorant, brethren, that oftentimes I purposed to come unto you, (but was let hitherto,) that I might have some fruit among you also, even as among other Gentiles.
14 I am debtor both to the Greeks, and to the Barbarians; both to the wise, and to the unwise.
15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also.

 

[GWH]

That's a false interpretation. The ESV is quite faulty

We should in fact be perfect in conscience which is not knowingly or willing be doing things we know are sin or things God's Word says are sin.

Those who do not have a clean conscience before the Lord are unclean because they are still doing things they know they should not be doing (James 4:17 ) or things God says are sin in His Word.

We should be perfect, but I am not, and your claim to be means you are notter.

 

[DallasMan]

We should be perfect, but I am not, and your claim to be means you are notter.

So you are still a sinner then?

There won't be any sinners in Heaven, only those who over come.

Time for you to lay aside the sin as the scripture instructs

Hebrews 12:1
let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us

Ephesians 4:22-24
put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Your problem is not accepting all the Lord teaches in His Word, not me.

 

[DallasMan]

The rapist would have the Holy Spirit in their spirit, who would convict and rebuke so they flee that past sinful way.

No, the rapist would have the devil in them leading them to rape and they like it so they agree to follow the devil.

If they had the Holy Spirit, they would not be a rapist at all.

You're going to extremes, its not about works. Its about the efficacy and sufficiency of Jesus payment for your sins.

Actually you don't accept the whole counsel of God having rejected portions of scripture your religious training has deceived you in to believing are not for us today.

This is how people come to believe they can still live in sin and be saved, because they are deceived by the devil.

Most churches teach we can live in sin and still be saved because they are led by demons.

you believe you do not sin but make mistakes correct?

Big difference between living in sin and making mistakes.

No, I'm not a "sinner"

But, the other day I accidentally spilled my coffee so that proves I'm not perfect in the literal sense like the Lord is because He's has NEVER spilled His coffee or done anything that wasn't perfect as He made zero mistakes.

1 John 5:16 speaks of a sin that is not unto death (separation from the Lord)

This is falling short of absolute perfection

But, it's not being a sinner out doing things the Lord says in His Word are sinful behavior.

 

[wattie]

No, the rapist would have the devil in them leading them to rape and they like it so they agree to follow the devil.

If they had the Holy Spirit, they would not be a rapist at all.





Actually you don't accept the whole counsel of God having rejected portions of scripture your religious training has deceived you in to believing are not for us today.

This is how people come to believe they can still live in sin and be saved, because they are deceived by the devil.

Most churches teach we can live in sin and still be saved because they are led by demons.





Big difference between living in sin and making mistakes.

No, I'm not a "sinner"

But, the other day I accidentally spilled my coffee so that proves I'm not perfect in the literal sense like the Lord is because He's has NEVER spilled His coffee or done anything that wasn't perfect as He made zero mistakes.

1 John 5:16 speaks of a sin that is not unto death (separation from the Lord)

This is falling short of absolute perfection

But, it's not being a sinner out doing things the Lord says in His Word are sinful behavior.

Imperfection is sin

People are imperfect

All people are sinners..saved or not.

Of course a believer would sin less.. but they are still imperfect and therefore a sinner.

 

[GWH]

So you are still a sinner then?
There won't be any sinners in Heaven, only those who over come.
Time for you to lay aside the sin as the scripture instructs
Hebrews 12:1
let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us

Ephesians 4:22-24
put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Your problem is not accepting all the Lord teaches in His Word, not me.

All saints are saved sinners.
Paul did not claim perfection (Phil. 3:12).
You do, so who disbelieves GW?
You. (Learn 1 John 1:9)

Yes, souls in heaven will be fully sanctified, but until then Heb. 12:1 and Eph. 4:22-24 express that goal/destination,
not its earthly realization/attainment.
(Plus what wattie said :^)

 

[CS1]

No, the rapist would have the devil in them leading them to rape and they like it so they agree to follow the devil.

If they had the Holy Spirit, they would not be a rapist at all.





Actually you don't accept the whole counsel of God having rejected portions of scripture your religious training has deceived you in to believing are not for us today.

This is how people come to believe they can still live in sin and be saved, because they are deceived by the devil.

Most churches teach we can live in sin and still be saved because they are led by demons.





Big difference between living in sin and making mistakes.

No, I'm not a "sinner"

But, the other day I accidentally spilled my coffee so that proves I'm not perfect in the literal sense like the Lord is because He's has NEVER spilled His coffee or done anything that wasn't perfect as He made zero mistakes.

1 John 5:16 speaks of a sin that is not unto death (separation from the Lord)

This is falling short of absolute perfection

But, it's not being a sinner out doing things the Lord says in His Word are sinful behavior.

that is true but missing the mark is a sin is it not? You may not be practicing sin as the term living in Live or with sin. but you do sin each time you miss the mark do you not? Does not 1John 2:1 also say

2 My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.

Is not John stating he wrote to say do not sin but if you do sin we have an Advocate? Is not little children referring to those who are saved?

 

[birdie]

Should the local church preach the gospel to its congregation? The gospel of Jesus Christ is how he died for our sins, was buried, and rose again on the third day. Shouldn't those in the local assembly already have this checked off? Isn't church about equipping the saints through the preaching of the word to walk as children of light? When people hear the same message over and over, they do not mature in their faith but remain babes in Christ.

Thoughts??

Thanks John146 for your question about whether the church should preach the gospel to the congregation or, instead, to equip them to walk maturely.

I see the entire Bible as being the gospel. Since faith comes from hearing the word of God, I find it hard to think of the gospel as being separate from walking in Christ, whether as new born believers or as perhaps more mature believers. The seraphims in Isaiah 6 seem to not get tired of saying Holy Holy Holy, but I think it is possible that each time they do that they receive a new revelation or fresh bolster in the spirit from God.

 

[DallasMan]

You're going to extremes, its not about works. Its about the efficacy and sufficiency of Jesus payment for your sins.

So we can go ahead and live in sin then?

That's the many who claim to be "by faith alone christians" are doing these days

Imperfection is sin

People are imperfect

Too bad you don't know what the Lord teaches in His Word any better

1 John 1:7
But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

This is walking in the Spirit, instead of walking after the flesh

James 4:17
Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

Those who are not willingly or knowingly involved in sinful behavior, the Lord considers to be sin free because of His promise in 1 John 1:7

1 Peter 3:21
The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Having a good conscience toward God means not doing the things God says in His Word are sinful which He empowers us to doing if we abide in Him being led by the Holy Spirit.

Galatians 2:20
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Those that have been taught the demonic lie that God created them to be a sinner when they were born claiming God put sin in each little new born baby will never turn away from sin as they have been taught by demons that they can never stop sinning and so they will continue in sin and will always be a sinner right up until the Lord has to cast them in to hell for refusing to abide in Christ and live the Gospel

You'll know who these people are because they go around proclaiming
with great pride and arrogance that they are still sinners!

They identify with the old man, with living in sin rather than identifying the power of God made them a New Creature in Christ Jesus.

Sadly these people refuse to put on Christ as they hold on to the old man believing the New Birth thru the Blood of Jesus and the power of the Holy Spirit just isn't powerful enough to set them free since they were taught by demons that it was God who created them to be a sinner

Ephesians 4:22-24
put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Colossians 3:10
And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of Him that created Him:

2 Corinthians 6:17
come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.

This is what baptism is supposed to be about... making a covenant with the Lord, a public declaration of faith, a commitment to put off the old man and put on the new man and to walk in newness of life

Romans 6:4
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

We are called to cooperate with the Lord, to be co-laborers with Him. He made us in His Image, so we have free will... the Lord desires for us to willingly choose to turn away from our old life of sin and come abide In Christ and not turn away, ever!

1 Corinthians 3:9
We are laborers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.

It's God's work, His power, His ability... but WE have to choose to accept His offer to be His children and turn from darkness to walk with Him in the Light.

John 1:12
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

2 Corinthians 5:21
For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Getting born again is the introduction and the starting point and if one truly believes and dies moments after getting born again, yes they would go to Heaven.

But few die immediately after getting born again so it remains to be seen... will WE to choose to accept His offer to be His children and turn from darkness to walk with Him abiding In Him until the end of our lives so that we might be saved???

Matthew 24:13
But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Endure to the end as in... DON'T fall away!

 

[Dino246]

Imperfection is sin

If “imperfection is sin” then every time anyone does anything less than perfectly, they are committing sin.

That’s ridiculous. It gives no space for learning and making mistakes.

 

[Just_A__Follower]

If “imperfection is sin” then every time anyone does anything less than perfectly, they are committing sin.

That’s ridiculous. It gives no space for learning and making mistakes.

In a way sin is imperfection but not in our view. Sin is defined as missing the mark. The mark is perfection as that is what it takes to be in His presence. So anything outside of the mark would be imperfect. Of course that only counts for moral actions or thoughts as it would not be a sin to build an imperfect piece of furniture. I don’t believe God cares that all the table legs are the exact length. He looks at our hearts and not whether we are good carpenters or baseball players. His view of imperfection would be different from our view.

In his eyes our mistakes are sins. That is why we needed the perfect sacrifice to make up for our imperfection. We are imperfect and we are sinners being a sinner is one who sins. You don’t have to live in sin to be a sinner. A liar is a liar whether he lies once a month or every hour. To not be a sinner would mean you were perfect in God’s eyes and wouldn’t need His sacrifice. The ridiculous are those who believe they do not sin but for some reason believe they still need His sacrifice.

I fully know I’m a sinner and will be imperfect til the day I leave this body. I used to not even see the target and could’ve care less that there was even a target there, but now His Spirit like a coach helps me to aim. He showed me the target and continues to help me hold the bow steady. I still miss the target more than I would like but the difference is I in my desire to hit the target. His Spirit doesn’t change what you do or what you’re able to do. You do that. He changes what your desire to do is.

 

[DallasMan]

In his eyes our mistakes are sins.

Some sins are unto death - separation from God.
Other sins are not unto death - do not cause separation from God.

1 John 5:16-17
If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death.
There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it. All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death

 

[DallasMan]

1 John 5:16-17
If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death.
There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it. All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death

Those sins that do not cause separation from God are things such as forgetting to do something, maybe dropping something on the floor, etc.

While we need to be cleansed of these types of imperfections, they don't cause us to be separated from the Lord like doing things His Word calls out as sinful behavior does

1 John 1:7
But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

This is what 1 John 1:7 is speaking of in that if we are abiding in Christ not doing things we know are sinful behavior which cause separation from God, then the Lord automatically cleanses us from mistakes, or sins that do not cause separation from God.

 

[Dino246]

Those sins that do not cause separation from God are things such as forgetting to do something, maybe dropping something on the floor, etc.

Those things are not sin at all.