Secure Or Not Secure? That Is The Question!

[GRACE_ambassador]

Precious friends, Please Be Very Richly Encouraged And Edified:

"No, I’m not talking about our security. It is the teaching of our Apostle Paul (Rom. 11:13)
that members of the Body of Christ living in the dispensation of Grace are eternally secure
in Him (Rom. 8:35-39; Phil. 1:6).

But the question has long been asked if the Hebrew believers in the kingdom
program enjoy the same assurance. This writer believes that the answer to this
question is yes—and no! Let’s consider the evidence..." (R Kurth)

Amen.

Full study Biblical Evidence:

Secure Or Not Secure?

 

[rewriter]

Paul addressed Romans to all believers in Rome, Gentiles and Jews. He is merely stressing that he is the apostle to the Gentiles, not distinguishing the status between Jews and Gentiles.

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

Precious friends, Please Be Very Richly Encouraged And Edified:

"No, I’m not talking about our security. It is the teaching of our Apostle Paul (Rom. 11:13)
that members of the Body of Christ living in the dispensation of Grace are eternally secure
in Him (Rom. 8:35-39; Phil. 1:6).

But the question has long been asked if the Hebrew believers in the kingdom
program enjoy the same assurance. This writer believes that the answer to this
question is yes—and no! Let’s consider the evidence..." (R Kurth)

Amen.

Full study Biblical Evidence:

Secure Or Not Secure?

The gospel according to Santa Claws says that only good people go to Heaven because they earned it.

The Bible says that there is none good, no not one.
Romans 3

The wages of sin is death.
Romans 6

Death and Hell were cast into the Lake of Fire, which is the second death.
Revelation 20, 21
This includes everyone who even told a lie. Educated guess, everyone has done far worse.

Jesus is God and He is good.
There is none who is good but God.

He suffered for all sins of all mankind throughout history and satisfied the justice of the Father.

He died, having bled profusely, was buried in the rich man's tomb. On the third day it was proven by many witnesses that He resurrected and was alive.

Did He die for NOTHING?
Did He purchase Everlasting life or is the Word of God a lie?
If it's a lie, perhaps Joseph Smith was correct, or Mahamad or every NON-christian religion that teaches the so called "goodness of man."

Everlasting life is the true gift given at the minute the unholy sinner decides to quit trusting Mormon like pseudo-christian fables and instead places their trust in the true Savior Jesus Christ.
My King James Bible is the one that contains exactly 100 uses of the term "Believe" in the gospel of John.

20:31But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

 

[timf]

Joh_8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

There seems to be an element of constancy to the end required for those of Israel.

Eze 18:26 When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.
Eze 18:27 Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive.

Mar_13:13 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Heb 6:12 That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

 

[rewriter]

Joh_8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

There seems to be an element of constancy to the end required for those of Israel.

Eze 18:26 When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.
Eze 18:27 Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive.

Mar_13:13 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Heb 6:12 That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

But remember, the Gentiles are grafted into Israel, so what is true or those of Israel is true for those Gentiles grafted into Israel through Christ, that is all of us.

 

[timf]

I am not convinced that the gentiles are the ones "grafted in" in Romans 11. I understand that almost everyone says this, but the "wild" olive tree may mean those Jews outside of Israel "saved" by the kingdom gospel. Two reasons to consider this is that the olive tree is representative of Israel and that those branches grafted in can also be taken out.

 

[GWH]

Precious friends, Please Be Very Richly Encouraged And Edified:

"No, I’m not talking about our security. It is the teaching of our Apostle Paul (Rom. 11:13)
that members of the Body of Christ living in the dispensation of Grace are eternally secure
in Him (Rom. 8:35-39; Phil. 1:6).

But the question has long been asked if the Hebrew believers in the kingdom
program enjoy the same assurance. This writer believes that the answer to this
question is yes—and no! Let’s consider the evidence..." (R Kurth)

Amen.
Full study Biblical Evidence:
Secure Or Not Secure?

Romans 10:12 and Galatians 3:28.
https://www.google.com/search?sca_e...bICTTuAVj0WAeVnJ6k1PMcDzmtDmQwGCYvSaJk&csui=3

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Mid-acts dispensationalism bait.

 

[rewriter]

Romans 10:12 and Galatians 3:28.

And also Colossians 3:11

 

[posthuman]

I am not convinced that the gentiles are the ones "grafted in" in Romans 11. I understand that almost everyone says this, but the "wild" olive tree may mean those Jews outside of Israel "saved" by the kingdom gospel. Two reasons to consider this is that the olive tree is representative of Israel and that those branches grafted in can also be taken out.

that doesn't fit.

Romans 11:11-13​

I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall? Certainly not! But through their fall, to provoke them to jealousy, salvation [has come] to the Gentiles. Now if their fall [is] riches for the world, and their failure riches for the Gentiles, how much more their fullness! For I speak to you Gentiles; inasmuch as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry... ​

​

Romans 11:17​

... and if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree... ​

​

Paul is specifically talking to Gentiles in Romans 11 and says so - - and, saying im talking to you Gentiles, he says "you were grafted in"

 

[timf]

Rom 2:3 And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?

Paul here uses a literary device of calling out what might be considered and imaginary Pharisee.It is possible his reference to gentiles in verse 13 may not be anyone in Rome, but as if he were addressing gentiles in general.

Rom 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

I am aware that I will probably not convince anyone as the gentile branch view is so widely held. However, it can be useful to consider alternatives particularly when seeing the branches as gentiles would mean that gentile believers could lose their salvation.

Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

 

[rewriter]

Rom 2:3 And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?

Paul here uses a literary device of calling out what might be considered and imaginary Pharisee.It is possible his reference to gentiles in verse 13 may not be anyone in Rome, but as if he were addressing gentiles in general.

Rom 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

I am aware that I will probably not convince anyone as the gentile branch view is so widely held. However, it can be useful to consider alternatives particularly when seeing the branches as gentiles would mean that gentile believers could lose their salvation.

Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

Jews were God's chosen people so why would you think that Gentiles are safe from falling away but the Jews are not? Jews were disobedient and suffered, even though their acceptance as God's own people was by grace, so what makes the Gentiles any safer? Jesus's death was for ALL people, not just the Gentiles.

 

[posthuman]

It is possible his reference to gentiles in verse 13 may not be anyone in Rome, but as if he were addressing gentiles in general.

Rom 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

I am aware that I will probably not convince anyone as the gentile branch view is so widely held. However, it can be useful to consider alternatives particularly when seeing the branches as gentiles would mean that gentile believers could lose their salvation.

Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

whether it is particular gentiles or to all gentiles who believe, he specifically announces that he is describing gentiles as being a wild olive branch grafted into the cultivated olive tree which is Israel.

 

[homwardbound]

Precious friends, Please Be Very Richly Encouraged And Edified:

"No, I’m not talking about our security. It is the teaching of our Apostle Paul (Rom. 11:13)
that members of the Body of Christ living in the dispensation of Grace are eternally secure
in Him (Rom. 8:35-39; Phil. 1:6).

But the question has long been asked if the Hebrew believers in the kingdom
program enjoy the same assurance. This writer believes that the answer to this
question is yes—and no! Let’s consider the evidence..." (R Kurth)

Amen.

Full study Biblical Evidence:

Secure Or Not Secure?

Secured in the done work of Son, being risen forever now forever for us to believe this or not wholly!
Once saved always saved? Is done by God in Son for me. I can not do it, I know it after going wholeheartedly after it under Law, first. For years. Now seeing to just hold up Law as good as only Son could do it first for me to do it, without thought over it, anymore. Standing, in trust/Faith given me to do it by God for me/ through me, as well as all others as well 1 John 2:1-27
Thank you, Grace Ambassador for the continuing in trust to God's love and mercy for all

 

[Blade]

I read this post was at "this writer believes the answer" the song said right then "I know.. I know.." "God is on the move. " Its not I believe.. I know that I know that I know.

"I am aware that I will probably not convince anyone as the gentile branch view is so widely held. However, it can be useful to consider alternatives particularly when seeing the branches as gentiles would mean that gentile believers could lose their salvation. "

Wide awake ..short is.. He shows me this beautiful brown yet dark brown small tree with so so so many branches.. still to this day.. never seen a tree with so many branches. Said "show me a branch that was not originally of the vine. I am the vine you are the branches"

We talk in a way He does not.. cannot. See I wanted at the time.. i know I know but do you love me just as much as this Jewish person? He showed me that wide awake. Didn't say "I love you just as much" Wow I read those verses so many times yet never saw. I always get stuck still on "show me a branch that was not originally of the vine" Originally? Israel.. easy for some haha not for me lol