The BIG Question not asked, concerning Genesis 6:1-6?

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

In heaven there is no disease, nor decay.

They probably can water their gardens safely ... and it probably has a nice smell to it.

Angels urinating in their gardens is not my idea of heaven

 

[Genez]

yeah Mr demon is fantasising in your head again, probably trying to get you to offend as many christians as possible, and I wouldn't be surprised if your deliberately entertaining it, by all your ugly bullying comments you've made to nice people here.

There are going to be many nice people in Hell.
Being nice is no virtue.

Being full of truth, is.

Jesus called Peter "Satan."
Jesus was not being nice.
Yet, Peter was the one being nice before Jesus called him "Satan".

You know that passage?

 

[Genez]

Angels urinating in their gardens is not my idea of heaven

I would hate to limited to your idea of heaven.

 

[Edward429451]

I do use a concordance and lexicons. The word in question means habitation. It is used in 2 Maccabees 11:2 and 3 Maccabees 2:15. In the first case it means a city, and in the 2nd it means the highest heaven. In neither case does it mean a body.

Very soon after this, Lysias, the king’s guardian and kinsman, who was in charge of the government, being vexed at what had happened, gathered about eighty thousand infantry and all his cavalry and came against the Jews. He intended to make the city a home for Greeks, 2 Maccabees 11:1–2.​

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For your dwelling is the heaven of heavens, unapproachable by human beings. 3 Maccabees. 2:15​

οἰκητήριον
This is used in Gk. for “dwelling-place,” “abode”1 (Democr., 171, Diels, I, 416; Eur. Or., 1114; Ps.-Aristot. Mund., 393a, 4; Fr., 482; Strabo, 12, 5, 3; Plut. Pomp., 28; P. Oxy., II, 281, 11; BGU, IV, 1167, 33; P. Tur., II, 3, 23; inscr. from a shrine of Isis (Ἰσιδεῖον): σὺν τοῖς περὶ αὐτὸ κατῳκοδομημένοις οἰκητηρίοις, Ceb. Tab., 17; 2 Macc. 11:2. In En. 27:2 it is used for the place of punishment of the eternally accursed: ὧδε ἐπισυναχθήσονται, καὶ ὧδε ἔσται τὸ οἰκητήριον. In Jd. 6: ἀγγέλους τε τοὺς μὴ τηρήσαντας τὴν ἑαυτῶν ἀρχὴν ἀλλὰ ἀπολιπόντας τὸ ἴδιον οἰκητήριον εἰς κρίσιν … τετήρηκεν. Cf. the similar ideas in En. 12:4: εἶπε τοῖς ἐγρηγόροις τοῦ οὐρανοῦ, οἵτινες ἀπολιπόντες τὸν οὐρανὸν τὸν ὑψηλὸν, τὸ ἁγίασμα τῆς στάσεως τοῦ αἰῶνος …, the watchers have left the high heaven, the holy eternal city; 15:3: διὰ τί ἀπελίπετε τὸν οὐρανὸν τὸν ὑψηλὸν τὸν ἅγιον τοῦ αἰῶνος; 15:7: καὶ διὰ τοῦτο οὐκ ἐποίησα ἐν ὑμῖν θηλείας· τὰ πνεύματα τοῦ οὐρανοῦ, ἐν τῷ οὐρανῷ ἡ κατοίκησις αὐτῶν. οἰκητήριον is thus used esp. for the seat of the angels in heaven.

We find the word in an anthropological context in 2 C. 5:2: … στενάζομεν τὸ οἰκητήριον ἡμῶν τὸ ἐξ οὐρανοῦ ἐπενδύσασθαι ἐπιποθοῦντες. οἰκητήριον ἐξ οὐρανοῦ is thus used here in development of the metaphor of the building (οἰκοδομὴ ἐκ θεοῦ, v. 1). We are obviously dealing with an older Gnostic Persian view in which the human body is compared with a building or dwelling-place.

Theological Dictionary of the New Testament

Oh I thought you were saying it's just buildings amd not bodies. Sorry.

 

[RegisterNow]

Theres no evidence that they where demons at that stage, or that they where fallen, in fact there's better evidence that suggest they fell after job, demons would not be allowed in heaven, plus in this case the angels where known as the sons of God to, but people are also known as the sons of God l, Romans 8:14 which could also rule out what many people are holding firm to in this thread that angels had sex with humans,. So the truth is here that you simply can't lean on your own understanding, but they do, and then they force it, and get horrible about it. Absolute nutcases

Plus for angels to be able to have sex and recreate you have to rewrite the whole bible, because only God gives life to spirit, all life returns to him.

So in actually this thread where once again many people lean on there own understanding, and even holding the book of Enoch higher than our bible for authoritive proof texting, just goes to show how severe the problem is of people behaving like demi Gods.

"Sons of God/children of God" in the OT are not the same as those in the NT. "Sons of God/children of God" in Rom. 8 are adopted through the Holy Spirit as co-heirs of Christ, that does NOT exist in the OT. When this term pops up in the OT, it refers to fallen angels who are with Satan. There're plenty of evidence.

Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them. (Job 1:6)
I said, “You are gods,
And all of you are children of the Most High.
But you shall die like men,
And fall like one of the princes.” (Ps. 82:6-7)
And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them in heaven any longer. So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. (Rev. 12:7-9)

 

[Jordon]

"Sons of God/children of God" in the OT are not the same as those in the NT. "Sons of God/children of God" in Rom. 8 are adopted through the Holy Spirit as co-heirs of Christ, that does NOT exist in the OT. When this term pops up in the OT, it refers to fallen angels who are with Satan. There're plenty of evidence.

Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them. (Job 1:6)
I said, “You are gods,
And all of you are children of the Most High.
But you shall die like men,
And fall like one of the princes.” (Ps. 82:6-7)
And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them in heaven any longer. So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. (Rev. 12:7-9)

Well that's one understanding, but I would not give leaning to your understanding, many bible scholars can't agree in this field,

Bible scholars make 3 distinctions for the sons of God in genesis

1 fallen angels, scholars can't agree they had fallen at that time


2 sons of Seth scholars can't fully agree


3 just mighty powerful rulers


Biblical passages exist that suggest the angels may have fallen after job. Scholars can't agree, I've studied it, but to be honest I would rather not study it again, it really leads to no where but to speculation.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Well that's one understanding, but I would not give leaning to your understanding, many bible scholars can't agree in this field,
Bible scholars make 3 distinctions for the sons of God in genesis

1 fallen angels, scholars can't agree they had fallen at that time
2 sons of Seth scholars can't fully agree
3 just mighty powerful rulers

Biblical passages exist that suggest the angels may have fallen after job. Scholars can't agree, I've studied it, but to be honest I would rather not study it again, it really leads to no where but to speculation.

There's really a 4th option that kind of falls within the 3rd option. In Genesis 6:4 it actually says in Hebrew sons of the gods (בְּנֵ֤י הָֽאֱלֹהִים֙). Perhaps it's referring to the ungodly seed of Adam who worshiped the gods, ie angels, rather than YHWH. IMO it makes Genesis 6:1-7 flow together better. HaElohim (האלהים) is used in Exodus to refer to all gods except YHWH.

And Jethro said, Blessed be the LORD, who hath delivered you out of the hand of the Egyptians, and out of the hand of Pharaoh, who hath delivered the people from under the hand of the Egyptians. Now I know that YHWH is greater than all the gods (האלהים): for in the thing wherein they dealt proudly he was above them. Exodus 18:10-11​

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However, whenever God is referred to in Genesis it is also written "the Gods", so it's not something that is definitive or clear.

 

[JacobGilbert]

The BIG Question not asked out loud concerning Genesis 6:1-6?

Why were those angels able to reproduce sexually?

,,,,,,

Genesis 6 never asks us to explain the mechanics of what happened, only the meaning of it. Scripture consistently focuses on moral boundaries and rebellion, not biological details. Obsessing over how angels could reproduce risks missing the point entirely the passage exists to show how deeply creation had become corrupted and how grieved God was by it. Whatever occurred, it is recorded not to satisfy curiosity, but to warn us about crossing God-ordained boundaries. The “how” is ultimately of little importance compared to the “why.” Therefore if one wants to know why God would even make it possible for Genesis 6 to happen, one must also understand that however God decided to design his creation was for a reason.

 

[Jordon]

There's really a 4th option that kind of falls within the 3rd option. In Genesis 6:4 it actually says in Hebrew sons of the gods (בְּנֵ֤י הָֽאֱלֹהִים֙). Perhaps it's referring to the ungodly seed of Adam who worshiped the gods, ie angels, rather than YHWH. IMO it makes Genesis 6:1-7 flow together better. HaElohim (האלהים) is used in Exodus to refer to all gods except YHWH.

And Jethro said, Blessed be the LORD, who hath delivered you out of the hand of the Egyptians, and out of the hand of Pharaoh, who hath delivered the people from under the hand of the Egyptians. Now I know that YHWH is greater than all the gods (האלהים): for in the thing wherein they dealt proudly he was above them. Exodus 18:10-11​

​

However, whenever God is referred to in Genesis it is also written "the Gods", so it's not something that is definitive or clear.

understood genesis really can't be taken completely literally in your own understanding, it's often seen as symbolic or metaphorical in some aspects, like the study of good and evil in genesis can can represent symbolic meanings, which they do in places

 

[RegisterNow]

Well that's one understanding, but I would not give leaning to your understanding, many bible scholars can't agree in this field,

Bible scholars make 3 distinctions for the sons of God in genesis

1 fallen angels, scholars can't agree they had fallen at that time


2 sons of Seth scholars can't fully agree


3 just mighty powerful rulers


Biblical passages exist that suggest the angels may have fallen after job. Scholars can't agree, I've studied it, but to be honest I would rather not study it again, it really leads to no where but to speculation.

Then just take its figurative meaning - "divine" or "heavenly" beings. "Son" is used like "sons of the republic", "sons of rebellion" or "sons of thunder". These are known as "powers", "principalities", "thrones", "rulers (archons) of darkness", and Eph. 6:12 tells us that these are NOT just "mighty powerful rulers" in flesh and blood. If they were just men of flesh and blood, they wouldn't die "like" men and fall "like" princes, they'd just die and fall.

 

[RegisterNow]

There's really a 4th option that kind of falls within the 3rd option. In Genesis 6:4 it actually says in Hebrew sons of the gods (בְּנֵ֤י הָֽאֱלֹהִים֙). Perhaps it's referring to the ungodly seed of Adam who worshiped the gods, ie angels, rather than YHWH. IMO it makes Genesis 6:1-7 flow together better. HaElohim (האלהים) is used in Exodus to refer to all gods except YHWH.

And Jethro said, Blessed be the LORD, who hath delivered you out of the hand of the Egyptians, and out of the hand of Pharaoh, who hath delivered the people from under the hand of the Egyptians. Now I know that YHWH is greater than all the gods (האלהים): for in the thing wherein they dealt proudly he was above them. Exodus 18:10-11​

​

However, whenever God is referred to in Genesis it is also written "the Gods", so it's not something that is definitive or clear.

"Elohim" is plural for all heavenly hosts, any angel could be called a "god", "deities" would be a more accurate term; meanwhile, there's only one YHWH who created the universe and incarnated as Jesus.

 

[Jordon]

Then just take its figurative meaning - "divine" or "heavenly" beings. "Son" is used like "sons of the republic", "sons of rebellion" or "sons of thunder". These are known as "powers", "principalities", "thrones", "rulers (archons) of darkness", and Eph. 6:12 tells us that these are NOT just "mighty powerful rulers" in flesh and blood. If they were just men of flesh and blood, they wouldn't die "like" men and fall "like" princes, they'd just die and fall.

Yep genesis really is something you can take completely literally, there's just to many symbolic meanings, it's fair to say that Moses was probably the author of genesis and he had understandings from people before him, but its also s
To fair to say that theres much in genesis that leave you wondering, that you really can't answer with full certainty ie firm conviction, all tho my conviction is spirit can't give life to spirit other than By God.

 

[Genez]

Yep genesis really is something you can take completely literally, there's just to many symbolic meanings, it's fair to say that Moses was probably the author of genesis and he had understandings from people before him, but its also s
To fair to say that theres much in genesis that leave you wondering, that you really can't answer with full certainty ie firm conviction, all tho my conviction is spirit can't give life to spirit other than By God.

One can come up with enough meanings as one wants, as to avoid committing to something needing to be defended.

Apathy.

Comes from a lack of the filling of the Spirit, yet still wanting to be counted in as having something to say.
It becomes like a drunk sitting at a bar staring at his drink to have time pass him by.

,

 

[Jordon]

One can come up with enough meanings as one wants, as to avoid committing to something needing to be defended.

Apathy.

Comes from a lack of the filling of the Spirit, yet still wanting to be counted in as having something to say.
It becomes like a drunk sitting at a bar staring at his drink to have time pass him by.

,

My enthusiasm comes from not surrendering what God holds so precious in his will,

Theres many things I will not say because of that reason, which to me means my enthusiasm for having respect is more than you'll ever know, and a big part of me will never say the things you do, because unlike you I live by a code of self discipline, and my respect would never ever accuse people of the things you do, or say the things you do,

You don't know who will be filled with the spirit or when they will, only God knows that, and unlike you I'm not going to condemn people to hell like you do, because i have more respect for God's will than you'll ever have. And despite all your trashy comments you've made since I've known you, I'm still not going to stoop to your level.

Do yourself a favour and grow up pal

 

[Genez]

My enthusiasm comes from not surrendering what God holds so precious in his will,

Theres many things I will not say because of that reason, which to me means my enthusiasm for having respect is more than you'll ever know, and a big part of me will never say the things you do, because unlike you I live by a code of self discipline, and my respect would never ever accuse people of the things you do, or say the things you do,

You don't know who will be filled with the spirit or when they will, only God knows that, and unlike you I'm not going to condemn people to hell like you do, because i have more respect for God's will than you'll ever have. And despite all your trashy comments you've made since I've known you, I'm still not going to stoop to your level.

Do yourself a favour and grow up pal

Look at some of what you wrote. You have no idea what you are dealing with...

(Post 192)
Yep genesis really is something you can take completely literally, there's just to many symbolic meanings, it's fair to say that Moses was probably the author of genesis and he had understandings from people before him, but its also s To fair to say that theres much in genesis that leave you wondering, that you really can't answer with full certainty ie firm conviction, all tho my conviction is spirit can't give life to spirit other than By God .


Probably the author? Moses was the author. The Torah was called the five books of Moses. HE GOT IT DIRECTLY FROM GOD.

Much leaves you wondering? Because you have yet to discover a teacher that can teach it to you DIRECTLY from the Hebrew.

Again. Here is one teacher that would floor you if you would only give him a hearing. https://www.rbthieme.org/index.html#tabs-3

Here is how much money you would need to spend to get the lessons you asked for.

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There is no charge for any material from R. B. Thieme, Jr., Bible Ministries. Anyone who desires Bible teaching can receive our publications and audio and video recordings without obligation. ​

God provides Bible doctrine. We wish to reflect His grace.​

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R. B. Thieme, Jr., Bible Ministries is a grace ministry and operates entirely on voluntary contributions. ​

There is no price list for books or recordings. No money is requested. When gratitude for the Word of​

God motivates a believer to give, he has the privilege of contributing to the dissemination of Bible doctrine.​

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No excuse to miss out.​

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[RegisterNow]

One can come up with enough meanings as one wants, as to avoid committing to something needing to be defended.

Apathy.

Comes from a lack of the filling of the Spirit, yet still wanting to be counted in as having something to say.
It becomes like a drunk sitting at a bar staring at his drink to have time pass him by.

,

The bible interprets itself, and its self interpretation is validated by history. I think the biggest obstacle to most people is a supernatural, mystical view of the world before rationalism and empiricism took over since the Enlightenment movement. Without this view, this "fallen angel" and "evil spirit" narrative would make no sense to you, so do Jesus's miracles and exorcism, and the credibility and infallability of the bible would be put in question.

 

[Mem]

Just to clarify ... you are suggesting that the sons of God, the Nephilim and the giants (men of renown) are all the same creatures just different titles?

I'm suggesting the 'sons of God' is a possible referent to the Nephilim (fallen ones), qualified of those that 'looked upon the daughters of men' ...'and took wives of them all that they wanted,' which qualifies them from moving to a 'lower level,' behaviorally, than expected in such as the royals (i.e. Prince Philip and his association with Epstein). I suspect there's also suggestion of taking multiple wives (all that they wanted), you know like the great sheiks do. That is, the sons of God became the Nephilim when they, like the angels, 'left their estate'... There's a modern account of a Prince that denounced his title to marry a commoner, for example.
Andre "the Giant," the wrestler who acted in The Princess Bride, his parental background is Bulgarian, and Bulgaria is one of the countries mentioned in the Bible (Map of Countries Mentioned in the Bible).

 

[Jordon]

Look at some of what you wrote. You have no idea what you are dealing with...

(Post 192)
Yep genesis really is something you can take completely literally, there's just to many symbolic meanings, it's fair to say that Moses was probably the author of genesis and he had understandings from people before him, but its also s To fair to say that theres much in genesis that leave you wondering, that you really can't answer with full certainty ie firm conviction, all tho my conviction is spirit can't give life to spirit other than By God .


Probably the author? Moses was the author. The Torah was called the five books of Moses. HE GOT IT DIRECTLY FROM GOD.

Much leaves you wondering? Because you have yet to discover a teacher that can teach it to you DIRECTLY from the Hebrew.

Again. Here is one teacher that would floor you if you would only give him a hearing. https://www.rbthieme.org/index.html#tabs-3

Here is how much money you would need to spend to get the lessons you asked for.

FINANCIAL POLICY​

​

There is no charge for any material from R. B. Thieme, Jr., Bible Ministries. Anyone who desires Bible teaching can receive our publications and audio and video recordings without obligation. ​

God provides Bible doctrine. We wish to reflect His grace.​

​

R. B. Thieme, Jr., Bible Ministries is a grace ministry and operates entirely on voluntary contributions. ​

There is no price list for books or recordings. No money is requested. When gratitude for the Word of​

God motivates a believer to give, he has the privilege of contributing to the dissemination of Bible doctrine.​

​

​

No excuse to miss out.​

. ​

​

​

Why should i take your recommendations ? When quite clearly all you want to do is belittle me and other people , and as for this teacher you hold above all other teachers, is this you just exalting someone, like the way in which you exalt yourself, above all the little people you have down as not having any knowledge ?

And this R. B. Thieme, Jr., Bible Ministries do they believe like you do that angels can recreate through sexual intercourse, then claim there knowledge is above all like you.

The very fact that I know moses is the author is the fact I have knowledge, but as always you harp on as if I don't, and as always you tell me I need a good teacher,..


Errr I had one my mum all my life, she helped thousands of people with religious issues, she was a Samaritan, she was also a very good one, and she saved many peoples lifes,

You have no idea what so ever how much knowledge I have or wisdom, as if you did by now now you would of listened to all the sound advice I have given you, but you haven't, you've just repeatedly said I need to find a good teacher. Or that I'm a spiritual loser, a long with all the other false accusations you've aimed at me.

Do you think I have a pride issue or something,..? Do you think you can provoke my pride, well you can't and you have absolutely no chance pal

 

[Genez]

The bible interprets itself, and its self interpretation is validated by history. I think the biggest obstacle to most people is a supernatural, mystical view of the world before rationalism and empiricism took over since the Enlightenment movement. Without this view, this "fallen angel" and "evil spirit" narrative would make no sense to you, so do Jesus's miracles and exorcism, and the credibility and infallability of the bible would be put in question.

"The Bible interprets itself. As long as I am doing the interpreting."

That is the problem.

 

[Genez]

Why should i take your recommendations ? When quite clearly all you want to do is belittle me and other people , and as for this teacher you hold above all other teachers, is this you just exalting someone, like the way in which you exalt yourself, above all the little people you have down as not having any knowledge ?

And this R. B. Thieme, Jr., Bible Ministries do they believe like you do that angels can recreate through sexual intercourse, then claim there knowledge is above all like you.

The very fact that I know moses is the author is the fact I have knowledge, but as always you harp on as if I don't, and as always you tell me I need a good teacher,..


Errr I had one my mum all my life, she helped thousands of people with religious issues, she was a Samaritan, she was also a very good one, and she saved many peoples lifes,

You have no idea what so ever how much knowledge I have or wisdom, as if you did by now now you would of listened to all the sound advice I have given you, but you haven't, you've just repeatedly said I need to find a good teacher. Or that I'm a spiritual loser, a long with all the other false accusations you've aimed at me.

Do you think I have a pride issue or something,..? Do you think you can provoke my pride, well you can't and you have absolutely no chance pal

Jordon.....

You need a church of goody-goodies.

Go find one.

No deep knowledge of truth needed. Just good intentions.