Oh that's easy: They raise themselves from their spiritual tombs by the efficacious power of their own "freewill".
Can We Really Exercise Free Will?
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Oh that's easy: They raise themselves from their spiritual tombs by the efficacious power of their own "freewill".
folks continuing in evil through suppressing the truth in unrighteousness after God has revealed Himself is what is evil.
Isaiah 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.Jordon said:
if someone gives to the poor in an effort to gain salvation, then yes it is unclean according to Isaiah 64:6.
However, the poor still receive the benefit of someone giving ... which is a good thing.
Did you know, Jordon, that God will repay those who are generous to the poor?
Proverbs 19:17 Whoever is generous to the poor lends to the LORD, and he will repay him for his deed.
I have explained my understanding of the discussion ... both Genez and Kroogz have confirmed my understanding.Jordon said:
You do not agree ... doesn't mean you're "back to front" ... I have no idea what that means ...
1 John 3:4-5Jordon said:
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
truth
Matthew 7:15-27Jordon said:
15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
truth
Isaiah 59:1-2Jordon said:
1 Behold, the LORD'S hand is not shortened, that it cannot save; neither his ear heavy, that it cannot hear:
2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.
truth
Romans 6:20-23Jordon said:
20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.
22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
truth
Proverbs 15:28-32Jordon said:
28 The heart of the righteous studieth to answer: but the mouth of the wicked poureth out evil things.
29 The LORD is far from the wicked: but he heareth the prayer of the righteous.
30 The light of the eyes rejoiceth the heart: and a good report maketh the bones fat.
31 The ear that heareth the reproof of life abideth among the wise.
32 He that refuseth instruction despiseth his own soul: but he that heareth reproof getteth understanding.
truth
1 Corinthians 10:12-13Jordon said:
12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.
13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.
truth
where?Jordon said:
I was having a discussion with you concerning the coats God made for Adam and Eve.
BillyBob quoted a sentence from my full post and Magenta replied to BillyBob with her claim "free willers think they are clever to present mothers loving and caring for their children as "evil." "
The fig leaves Adam and Eve made for themselves (Gen 3:7) represented their fleshly, human attempt to cover their sin and and shame.
Sort of like a free willie thinking his fleshly, human attempt to cover his sin and and shame is sufficient for the job.
Unfortunately free willers think they are clever to present mothers loving and caring for their children as "evil."
asking for clarification concerning a statement made which is piggy-backed on a reply made by me is not "denial" ... it's asking for clarification.Jordon said:
.
Look, Cameron....
Might as well make it known.
Here is your record of "understanding".
You do not believe in THE Rapture.
The Rapture that the Church believes in.
You believe the Millennial reign of Christ has been happening for over 1000 years already.
When, considering... "Millennium" means only 1000 years?
So, your interpretation of things has not been holding much water with me.
From what I have read of Cv5?
He has his bolts and nuts tightened correctly.
You are just trying to create a wedge.
The fact that you have no grasp of what the scripture says is made abundantly clear by this reply and in all of the rest of your posts.What in the world are you talking about? "Elder son Lucifer..."
False accusation. No man is able to accomplish what is necessary to be redeemed.
"after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,"
Then you believe wrongly!
1 Peter 1:1-2:
1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ,
To God's elect, strangers in the world, scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia and Bithynia, 2 who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and sprinkling by his blood:
Grace and peace be yours in abundance.
NIV
And,
2 Thess 2:13
13 But we ought always to thank God for you, brothers loved by the Lord, because from the beginning God chose you to be saved through the sanctifying work of the Spirit and through belief in the truth
NIV
Sanctification in both texts PRECEDES obedience to Christ and obedience to gospel truth. Cornelius is a great example of this truth.
In fact, I could really dig down even deeper into this teaching since obedience to Christ is impossible without a sinner actually having a genuine love for God. There is no stronger impetus for obedience to gospel truth than Agape Love. And the ONLY Source for such love is God Almighty himself!
Not worried about that, I am trying to save life and limb, no exaggeration.
I understand exactly what he is saying. The exercise of grace, in his view, is simply the proliferation of the gospel. He does not believe anything else is necessary except the gospel. He believes that the natural man needs only to hear the gospel. He does not believe that God must do anything concerning the flesh.
If you don't believe me, simply ask him.
Again, grace does more than save. Obviously not everyone receives saving grace (and I did explain that in the last post but the only grace you keep on seeing is saving grace). Grace is God's working policy in this world everything He does is by means of grace. It is His energy in working. The power that upholds the universe is grace in action.
As far as the negative responses? This is the very thing we have been trying to get through to you from the beginning. It is not grace that produces the negative outcome it is the unbeliever because he refuses to believe. Believing comes from us, it is our responsibility to believe. God does not cause us to believe, we believe because we desire what we see when God makes Himself known to us by grace and truth. Not everyone desires God. Yes, I know, unbelievable, who in their right mind would not love God if they knew the truth? Well, let's start with Lucifer shall we? (who by the way was very much spiritually alive and yet still did not believe)
Grace can be resisted.
Unbelievers are not in Christ so the "Yes" is not applicable to them. He is faithful to His word, not to our misconceptions of His word.
Christ died for our sin, not our salvation. Our salvation is in His Resurrection. There are atheists who believe Jesus died.
Did God not say you will die in your sins if you reject Christ? How then is His word returning void when whoever does not believe does not have eternal life?
John 8:24
Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.”
You're talking out of both sides of your mouth. Earlier you clearly stated that God designed grace to have more than one mission. One of those missions has to be that gazillions of people categorically reject the message of life.
And, yes, there are only two kinds of grace in his world: Common Grace that generally BENEFITS all mankind (and this would include God's Restraining Grace) and Saving Grace that BENEFITS all of Abraham's spiritual descendants whom God predestined in Christ in eternity.
And no, believing does not come from us because the ungodly world naturally hates God. And no one is going to trust or believe in anyone they hate.
This is false. Ask him. He believes God has accomplished all that is necessary for salvation and man has only to hear the gospel and make a choice. He doesn't believe God needs still to deal with man's depravity and the flesh. This is the freewill position and what has been debated since the onset of this thread. That you haven't picked up on it brings your discernment, not mine, into question.
You are presenting to them the doomer Calvinist message of "God decreed your damnation from eternity past", "God created you evil to fill up hell to the brim", and the fatalistic hopelessness of the "pre-birth sovereign lottery" dogma?
I very much doubt it.
Gal 1:8
But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
Of course he can't. But you believe since Christ has accomplished all that is necessary for salvation, an individual needs merely hear the gospel and make a choice. Why are you denying this now?
And you still don't understand the difference between the Holy Spirit placing an individual into the body of Christ and the baptism with the Spirit by Jesus that seals a believer.
Well I gained a few lbs over the last few years.... Free will or not I blame my wife. She makes some good food.
One of the things God will accomplish is enabling an unregenerated soul to consider the Gospel.
Grace restrains the depraved flesh, thus allowing that person's soul to think without being driven by depravity to reject.
That being said. Such grace does not guarantee that the soul will want to believe.
That is why God will hold all unbelievers *accountable.*
They will be without excuse! Romans 1:20