Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Jackson129]

If Christ is the Savior, why would anything else be necessary on our part to become saved.

Belief is necessary. Absolutely neccessary.

 

[Jackson129]

Been busy calculating the KE of a 1500kg mass at various velocities, and determining the forces and work due to accelerations and decelerations, appropriate gear ratios, duty cycles and safety factors, strength of materials, and various failure modes of the drivetrain.

So my focus has been elsewhere.

Are you building a custom transmission

 

[HeIsHere]

Belief is necessary. Absolutely neccessary.

Thank you and Amen....before regeneration. It is God's condition and our responsibility.

It is very hard on the soul after while reading this false doctrine on here, so very harmful to the Good News and the character of God!

 

[rogerg]

Belief is necessary. Absolutely neccessary.

How does someone who is spiritually dead get themselves to believe?

 

[reneweddaybyday]

reneweddaybyday said:

in our case, we are set free from our bondage when we are born again ... and we freely pledge to serve the Lord Jesus Christ the whole of our life.​

Bolded the operative word. Our slavery to Christ is nothing like our slavery to sin which was my point not they we are not slaves to Christ.

right ... no comparison between "dead in sin" and "alive unto God through the Lord Jesus Christ" ... different as night and day.

Ephesians 5:8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light
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[Jackson129]

The elect were never in danger of going to Hell. God will not let them die until saved, but He can save them even in the womb.

Obviously this opens a whole can of worms. Are you saying babies that die in the womb go to to hell if he hasent choose them?

 

[reneweddaybyday]

brightfame52 said:

The Gospel is hid to them that are lost and so they believe not 2 Cor 4:3-4

3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

While in a lost condition the gospel is hid from our minds by the devils blindness and we cant believe while lost. Now the antithesis is when in a saved condition [from the blindness of the devil] we believe.​

If someone hears the Gospel preached and then believes that means it's not hid.

Even if a person hears the gospel and does not believe, the gospel is not hid from them by God ... that is why they are without excuse, because God has revealed it to them and they suppress the truth in unrighteousness.

When the gospel of Christ, which is the power of God unto salvation, is preached one either believes or does not believe.

The one who believes receives the promised blessing.

The one who suppresses the truth in unrighteousness receives the consequence of having suppressed the truth.

Romans 1:16-19

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

the great satan is a legend in the mind of some folks ... they've got satan more powerful than God ... smh ...

.

 

[sawdust]

How does someone who is spiritually dead get themselves to believe?

Grace.

and you don't "get" yourself to believe, you either believe the truth when it is revealed or you don't.

 

[rogerg]

Obviously this opens a whole can of worms. Are you saying babies that die in the womb go to to hell if he hasent choose them?

Yes.
Are you playing games now? I have better things to do than go back and forth with you if you're not serious.

[Psa 58:3 KJV] 3 The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.

[Psa 51:5 KJV] 5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

 

[rogerg]

Grace.

and you don't "get" yourself to believe, you either believe the truth when it is revealed or you don't.

Can't believe if spiritually dead

 

[reneweddaybyday]

those who claim God was not even required to bring them to belief.

no one believes "God was not even required to bring them to belief" ... all have stated they believe God reaches out to mankind first.

The fact that mankind has an inkling God exists is proof in and of itself that God has made Himself known.

.

 

[Jackson129]

We are saved when we believe, but God is already at work within us before this.

I guess I would say this i believe he is at work around us. ( like a fishing lure to a fish) but he is not at work in us till we bite the hook (aka believe)

I absolutely believe God is at work around us it is one of the many ways he draws us in. I also believe we have to take the bait.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

They deny plainly spoken Scriptures.

nope ... some believe the "plainly spoken Scriptures" and agree with God that God is more powerful in revealing the gospel of Christ than the god of this world is in hiding the gospel of Christ.

others believe the god of this world is more powerful in hiding the gospel of Christ than God is in revealing the gospel of Christ.

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[rogerg]

Grace.

and you don't "get" yourself to believe, you either believe the truth when it is revealed or you don't.

[Phl 1:29 KJV] 29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

 

[Cameron143]

I guess I would say this i believe he is at work around us. ( like a fishing lure to a fish) but he is not at work in us till we bite the hook (aka believe)

I absolutely believe God is at work around us it is one of the many ways he draws us in. I also believe we have to take the bait.

Do you believe Romans 10:9 is necessary to salvation?

 

[Jackson129]

Yes.
Are you playing games now? I have better things to do than go back and forth with you if you're not serious.

[Psa 58:3 KJV] 3 The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.

[Psa 51:5 KJV] 5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

Thats all I needed to hear thank you.

 

[Jordon]

Been busy calculating the KE of a 1500kg mass at various velocities, and determining the forces and work due to accelerations and decelerations, appropriate gear ratios, duty cycles and safety factors, strength of materials, and various failure modes of the drivetrain.

So my focus has been elsewhere.

so what was final equation did you get there

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Now, you're pressing the analogy between physical and spiritual births, by saying there is "no gestation period" in the spiritual birth, which is not entirely true either. Sanctification, like gestation, is a process, is it not!?

I believe sanctification is what takes place within the born again believer from the time he or she is first born again (regenerated) and continues throughout his or her lifetime on this earth.

Romans 10:9-10

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

A person is "saved" the moment he or she confesses the Lord Jesus Christ is Lord in his or her life and believes that God raised the Lord Jesus Christ from the dead ... this is "salvation".

Sanctification is the process whereby God works within the heart of the born again one and begins to conform him or her to the image of Christ. This takes place over the course of one's life. We will be made fully in the image of Christ at the time we see Him face to face.

1 John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

Until then, we are growing and maturing in Him.

The efficacy of God's drawing is also a process, is it not?

God draws us through His lovingkindness (Jer 31:3).

God reveals His eternal power and Godhead to us through His marvelous creation (Rom 1:20).

God reveals Himself to us through His Word (Gen - Rev).

God reveals Himself through the reproof ministry of the Holy Spirit (John 16:7-11).

God reveals Himself to us through His faithful ministers who preach His Word (Rom 10:14-15; 1 Cor 1:21; Eph 4:11).

I believe that any time natural man believes the truth of Scripture when it is revealed to him or her, God gives increase in the heart of natural man concerning that truth. Believing the truth that God created the heavens and the earth does not result in salvation ... believing the truth that we should not steal does not result in salvation ... believing the truth that David slew Goliath does not result in salvation ... however, believing these truths does result in God working in the heart of the one believing to bring increase to him or her ... resulting in a greater trust in God.

That trust in God over these little things results in greater trust in God when it comes to the gospel of Christ ... so in that regard, yes, I can agree with you that the "efficacy of God's drawing is also a process".

Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise

We trusted when we heard the Word of truth, the gospel of salvation ... we believed when we heard the Word of truth, the gospel of salvation ... we were sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise when we believed.

What you fail to see is that numerous spiritual truths have different aspects/nuances to them, so this is why in God's infinite wisdom spiritual life is presented in scripture sometimes as resurrection and other times as birth. Neither one of these terms are synonymous, but both do justice to describing life.

the "new birth" is a present reality for those who are born again.

the "resurrection" is a future hope in God's faithful promise.

Spiritual new birth takes place at the time a person believes the gospel of Christ which is the power of God unto salvation.

Resurrection of the born again one is a future reality which will take place in God's timing.

Philippians 3:20-21

20 For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:

21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

We live "in" this world ... but we are not "of" this world ...

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[reneweddaybyday]

first five posts submitted by me in this thread ...

Post 1,958

Post 1,963

Post 2,004

Post 2,057

Post 2,066

Please let me know which post submitted by me supports your claim that I "entered this thread breathing out lies and false accusations" ... otherwise your accusation is just as empty as your claim that "free willers think they are clever to present mothers loving and caring for their children as "evil."" ... the claim for which you have provided absolutely zero factual support ... although Jordon has made a valiant effort on your behalf.

p.s. just in case you can't support your claim in the first 5 posts submitted by me ... I'll provide the next 5 posts in the next day or two ... or, if you'd rather just apologize for having made an error concerning my entering into the thread "breathing out lies and false accusations" ... that's another option ... up to you ... although silence on your part speaks volumes ... just sayin'

next five posts submitted by me in this thread ...

Post 2,115

Post 2,158

Post 2,343

Post 2,359

Post 2,365

So, that's 10 posts you've been shown ... please show me where I "entered this thread breathing out lies and false accusations" ...

.

 

[Jackson129]

Do you believe Romans 10:9 is necessary to salvation?

You ask the questions the hard way haha. Yes I believe repentance is part of salvation. Without fruits there is no repentance. And the fruits bareth witnesses. I believe if you do not repent you just put your car in the ditch on your journey. And you aint never getting your car out of that ditch till you repent. Does that mean you are stuck somewhere in salvation limbo. I dont know i.cant say.

I am also aware of the line of reasoning that one is not saved by his mouths confession but rather the mouth testifies readily that which has been recieved by faith. Which is from the grace of God.