God's design for relationship is arranged marriage, incompatible with modern society
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Oh that Tamar. I was thinking about the other one.Judah and Tamar wasn’t rape; Amnon and Tamar certainly was.
I figured. Easy mistake.
I need to apologize to you (and all the Singles forum regulars) for dragging the BDF in here. Humbly sorry.
It's also silly to make a term have a special meaning only you know about, and then expect other people to automatically understand what you mean.
I saw this and it made me laugh and I thought of our singles group. This seems like as good a place to drop it as any other.
That is the case for the r word, a rather serious and strong word that shouldn't be used liberally, and it is necessary to cling to a clear, modern legal definition, especially in the post #MeToo era where casual, friendly bodily interaction, physical intimacy in form of "outercourse" (no penetrative acts, including french kiss) and consensual but later regretted sex could be considered as the r word. It's hard for me to understand and may be hard for you to imagine, that I was born and raised in a culture without the influence of the sexual revolution, premarital sex and pregnancy here are extremely rare.
Alright. Its an interesting thread regardless, with many answers to your question if you are interested in hearing any.
Kudos to you for recognizing your limits, but don't forget that things can change. He takes us from glory to glory, and all that
Trust me, it's not just me, today's "capstone" model of marriage has exceeded many ordinary people's limits, inflating their expectations to an unrealistic level. Both the "purity culture" and the "hookup culture" have greatly contributed to it.
I think it's rather a tragedy, though. More often than not I find myself in an internal struggle, the devil on my shoulder craves for imaginary physical intimacy, the angel reprimands me for the lustful carnal desire.
Here's a few short comments since I don't have the time to read the 10 pages right now of an interesting topic.
A. Since Adam and Eve, God arranged a famous marriage and devoted a long chapter to describe how He did it.
Arranged marriages are not sinful. God chose the gal for Isaac. Her name was Rebecca.
Read the KJV Genesis 24
It's a fascinating study!
B. Rebecca belonged to her Dad.
When he agreed with the clear direction God led Abraham's servant to find his daughter, he did not protest. He ASKED his daughter if she will go with him?
It was a request and not a demand. She consented and sight unseen, she agreed to be Isaac's wife. This shows respect for the free will of Rebecca.
56And he said unto them, Hinder me not, seeing the LORD hath prospered my way; send me away that I may go to my master. 57And they said, We will call the damsel, and enquire at her mouth. 58And they called Rebekah, and said unto her, Wilt thou go with this man? And she said, I will go. 59And they sent away Rebekah their sister, and her nurse, and Abraham's servant, and his men. 60And they blessed Rebekah, and said unto her, Thou art our sister, be thou the mother of thousands of millions, and let thy seed possess the gate of those which hate them.
A. Since Adam and Eve, God arranged a famous marriage and devoted a long chapter to describe how He did it.
Arranged marriages are not sinful. God chose the gal for Isaac. Her name was Rebecca.
Read the KJV Genesis 24
It's a fascinating study!
B. Rebecca belonged to her Dad.
When he agreed with the clear direction God led Abraham's servant to find his daughter, he did not protest. He ASKED his daughter if she will go with him?
It was a request and not a demand. She consented and sight unseen, she agreed to be Isaac's wife. This shows respect for the free will of Rebecca.
56And he said unto them, Hinder me not, seeing the LORD hath prospered my way; send me away that I may go to my master. 57And they said, We will call the damsel, and enquire at her mouth. 58And they called Rebekah, and said unto her, Wilt thou go with this man? And she said, I will go. 59And they sent away Rebekah their sister, and her nurse, and Abraham's servant, and his men. 60And they blessed Rebekah, and said unto her, Thou art our sister, be thou the mother of thousands of millions, and let thy seed possess the gate of those which hate them.
“Arranged marriage” is only one of many models of marriage presented in Scripture. There is nothing saying it is the “right” way. It certainly doesn’t guarantee a perfect marriage. Even “courtship”, popular in some Christian circles, is not foolproof.
In American/Westernized cultures today, most people of marriage age don’t spend enough time with any “wiser” people who could make a good choice for them. That’s a good argument for small pan-generational groups in the church.
Dating with the intention of finding a good partner is not inherently bad. God can work through any model as long as both persons are surrendered to His guidance.
In American/Westernized cultures today, most people of marriage age don’t spend enough time with any “wiser” people who could make a good choice for them. That’s a good argument for small pan-generational groups in the church.
Dating with the intention of finding a good partner is not inherently bad. God can work through any model as long as both persons are surrendered to His guidance.
Yes, she wasn't sold out like a piece of property, as most people think of arranged marriage. Her own consent was respected.
I refuse to believe that, by no means would God send you to a bar or a dating app. God's guidance was exemplified in Jacob's instruction on his marital arrangement for Isaac:
I will make you swear by the Lord, the God of heaven and the God of the earth, that you will not take a wife for my son from the daughters of the Canaanites, among whom I dwell; but you shall go to my country and to my family, and take a wife for my son Isaac. (Gen. 24:3-4)
Translation into modern context, you only marry a fellow Christian, so you can be equally yoked. If such a mate doesn't exist or appears to be unavailable, then don't date at all. If you insist to do so and justify it as God's guidance, you'd be following Esau's footsteps.
When Esau was forty years old, he took as wives Judith the daughter of Beeri the Hittite, and Basemath the daughter of Elon the Hittite. And they were a grief of mind to Isaac and Rebekah. (Gen. 26:34-35)
We see God's will in action.
Prayer was involved. There was a clear answer. The fathers of both were involved along with the consent of Isaac and Rebecca.
The worldly stereotype of arranged marriages is different from the biblical example.
The wisdom of Godly parents, prayer for God's will and other considerations sure beats the problems of Genesis chapter 6 and dozens of judgements upon God's people.
Why did God's people fail at marriage most of the time that made God so angry?
They married unbelievers.
Their unbelieving spouses led to the families and future generations disregard of the LORD for worship of devils/demons.
How does this apply to contemporary Christian marriages?
You can believe what you like. God is just as capable of introducing you to your future spouse at a bar as at church. Perhaps your concept of God is too limited.
You might want to check your sources: Isaac is Jacob's father, not the other way around. Also, where in Scripture does it say that this procedure is "God's guidance exemplified"? Oh... it doesn't! You're assuming and claiming things that just aren't there.
And how do you know whether she (or he, as appropriate) is a fellow Christian? You have to get to know them. And how do you get to know them if they aren't already in your circle? You... DATE them.
It's not rocket science, but it does seem to be above some people's pay grade.
Or perhaps you should trust God with his original design, in which he introduces your future spouse to you, if you deserve one by God's determination, not the other way around. Do you believe the talking point that the church is the bride of Christ, earthly marriage between husband and wife reflects Christ's marriage with the church? What does the word of God say about that? "I have manifested Your name to the men whom You have given Me out of the world. They were Yours, You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word." (Jn. 17:6) Exactly in the same way God gave Eve to Adam.
Right here, just because you don't know doesn't mean it's not there. The union of Isaac and Rebecca was God's will.
‘The Lord, before whom I walk, will send His angel with you and prosper your way; and you shall take a wife for my son from my family and from my father’s house. (Gen. 25:40)
Then Laban and Bethuel answered and said, “The thing comes from the Lord; we cannot speak to you either bad or good. Here is Rebekah before you; take her and go, and let her be your master’s son’s wife, as the Lord has spoken.” (Gen. 25:50-51)
Or how about not wasting your time and money on a wild goose chase at all? Especially for the working class, with little spare time and free money at disposal? That's not rocket science either.
Well... I mean... I can't say anything on that one. That is what I've been doing, or rather NOT been doing, all my life.
Hi Registernow, I think that's definitely a valid approach, though I wouldn't judge those who do seek. The family was following the Lord's direction when seeking a wife for Issac, God clearly set it up but actually finding Rebekah required some effort and searching.
The key is whether or not we are being led by God. I have been in 2 serious relationships and in both cases I wasn't seeking a boyfriend but I WAS following God's leading. I did not meet either of them on a dating site but I've had friends who felt led to join a dating site and made great Godly connections there, good friendships etc.
Who are we to judge someone else's servant? To their own master they will stand or fall.
Well, Abraham essentially sent out a matchmaker and negotiated a deal, we're on our own. It should be understood that historically, marriage was an economic and political union between not just two individuals, but two families; therefore, it was handled liked a business deal that involved investigations, calculations and negotiations, both the bride's and the groom's families will provide a dowry as a startup investiment and a security deposit, if you break up, you'd lose it all. That's the firm foundation, any romance, intimacy, pleasure, compatibility, emotional support, etc were built upon that. I'm not saying this is the ideal scenario and this is the kind of marriage I want, but at least that spares you the hustle and risk.Hi Registernow, I think that's definitely a valid approach, though I wouldn't judge those who do seek. The family was following the Lord's direction when seeking a wife for Issac, God clearly set it up but actually finding Rebekah required some effort and searching.
The key is whether or not we are being led by God. I have been in 2 serious relationships and in both cases I wasn't seeking a boyfriend but I WAS following God's leading. I did not meet either of them on a dating site but I've had friends who felt led to join a dating site and made great Godly connections there, good friendships etc.
Who are we to judge someone else's servant? To their own master they will stand or fall.
You completely missed my point, but ok
.Just curious (and I don't mean this with any malice, I am truly wondering about this)...... are Bible studies typically a contentious gathering in your culture? Like, I saw on your profile that you're a small group leader. Here in singles we often treat our discussions like a casual group Bible study, where different members bring up different points and stories and hopefully we can all learn something. That's what I'm used to for in-person studies as well.
But your approach seems to be just announce what you think is right and then do your best to ignore or shoot down everything everyone else says, even comments that largely agree with you. Is that a cultural thing?
Like, are group Bible studies more like lectures and everyone just listens and accepts whatever the "leader" says, no comments or discussion allowed?
You completely missed my point, but ok
Just curious (and I don't mean this with any malice, I am truly wondering about this)...... are Bible studies typically a contentious gathering in your culture? Like, I saw on your profile that you're a small group leader. Here in singles we often treat our discussions like a casual group Bible study, where different members bring up different points and stories and hopefully we can all learn something. That's what I'm used to for in-person studies as well.
But your approach seems to be just announce what you think is right and then do your best to ignore or shoot down everything everyone else says, even comments that largely agree with you. Is that a cultural thing?
That was neither my approach nor my intention, and I'm no group leader, that profile setting must be a genuine mistake. I'm not like that in other aspects of bible study, I'm only exceptionally passionate on this one topic in particular.