The Ten Commandments are the Covenant, did you know?

[soulprobe]

You mentioned the following statement.

And no one ever made up some sort of separate title calling the ten commandments “the moral law”
with the assumption that the law of Moses was separate and less “moral” than the ten commandments.
This is all stuff made up by that dead American woman you follow.

Ellen White was a member of the Methodists who taught the ten words are moral laws, eternal law.
So did the Catholics, Reformers, Protestants (Methodists), and Orthodox.

The vast majority of the Christian world was taught that the ten commandments are binding.
Origen (c. 184–253 AD) and Jerome (c. 347–420 AD) were among the first to more explicitly distinguish
between the Mosaic moral laws and the ceremonial laws, though Martin Luther later criticized aspects
of their differentiation. Even though Martin Luther went with the traditional flow.

What they thought was that the ten words were natural laws innate in the human conscious.

Further, since these ten words were in Adam and the angels then the ten words must be eternal.

Can you see how the law crept back into the traditional church.

So today almost every Christian on earth essentially believes that the ten commandments.
Are binding which means they are the law of the church.

This simple, seemingly logical mistake may have doomed modern Christianity.

If physical circumcision (Galatians 5) would cause the Galatian church to fall from grace.

Then what does imposing the law itself on the church precipitate?

Not something that I want to contemplate but I cannot see a way out of this.

Thank you… interesting…. I never thought to consider early Christians to be tinkering with the law of Moses when there was no scriptural evidence that those who received, administered and followed the law of Moses (Israelites, Jews, Jesus or the apostles) would ever even think of dividing the law of Moses into moral and ceremonial.

So these early Christians came to the conclusion that the ceremonial laws were all commands in the law of Moses except the 10 commandments. That they considered all the other Sabbaths, feast of Tabernacles, Day of Trumpets, Day of Atonement, Passover, Days of unleavened bread all ceremonial laws. What a mess.

 

[Inquisitor]

Thank you… interesting…. I never thought to consider early Christians to be tinkering with the law of Moses when there was no scriptural evidence that those who received, administered and followed the law of Moses (Israelites, Jews, Jesus or the apostles) would ever even think of dividing the law of Moses into moral and ceremonial.

So these early Christians came to the conclusion that the ceremonial laws were all commands in the law of Moses except the 10 commandments. That they considered all the other Sabbaths, feast of Tabernacles, Day of Trumpets, Day of Atonement, Passover, Days of unleavened bread all ceremonial laws. What a mess.

A critical error in the very early church because they were essentially not well educated.

Even today most Protestants would view the SDA as a Christian church.

Because they do not see the ten words as anything other than the eternal, moral law.

They look at the SDA as just having a problem with the fourth commandment.

When I first realized that the traditional church was under the Mosaic law I was devastated.

Augustine was the philosopher that provided the theological framework to divide the law.

Augustine divided the eternal, moral ten words from what he called the symbolic law of Moses.

That set in stone the ten words as moral and eternal.

Then along came the Catholic theologian Thomas Aquinas. He would divide the Mosaic law
into moral, judicial, and ceremonial law. Hence, the Protestants see the Mosaic law as moral
and ceremonial. So the SDA are literally a daughter church of the Protestants.
The Protestants are quite literally a daughter church of the Catholics.

A minister I had 30 years ago mentioned Augustine as the main character in church history.
Responsible for introducing a type of Greek philosophy into the traditional church and the
division in the law. I knew he knew some of these problems with the traditional theology.
Though at the time I was not as immersed in the N.T as he was and did not fully understand
his argument.

This will haunt you unfortunately.

Sometimes I wonder if I should even mention any of this.

 

[memberofthebride]

pinebeach

"it is imperative that people understand that the OT laws and sacrifices were never meant to continue after Jesus life, death and resurrection."

If what you have written, Were true, why then does the WORD of God state otherwise?

Isaiah 66

22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.

23 And it shall come to pass, [that] from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.


Zechariah 14

16 And it shall come to pass, [that] every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

17 And it shall be, [that] whoso will not come up of [all] the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.

18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that [have] no [rain]; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

Micah 4

1 But in the last days it shall come to pass, [that] the mountain of the house of the LORD shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it.


2 And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.

The word "law" is the Hebrew word Torah #8451

The Torah is eternal, the Torah reveals to man the Divine Nature and Mind of God.

Christ, as He said, did not come to abolish the Torah, He came to add the Spiritual to the Physical, the Torah is now complete.

 

[memberofthebride]

pinebeach

I will add this;

After Christ has returned to earth as KING of Kings, and the third Temple is built, animal sacrifices will be re-established.

beginning in chapter 40 of Ezekiel, Christ, through Ezekiel explains all the functions ect that will take place. It also details how the Third Temple will be laid out. This Temple will be Huge. by the way, in our day there will be no temple built before Christ returns.

Christ has told us HE does not change.

Read Ezekiel, this is future after the return.

Ezekiel 48

30 And these [are] the goings out of the city on the north side, four thousand and five hundred measures.

31 And the gates of the city [shall be] after the names of the tribes of Israel: three gates northward; one gate of Reuben, one gate of Judah, one gate of Levi.

32 And at the east side four thousand and five hundred: and three gates; and one gate of Joseph, one gate of Benjamin, one gate of Dan.

33 And at the south side four thousand and five hundred measures: and three gates; one gate of Simeon, one gate of Issachar, one gate of Zebulun.

34 At the west side four thousand and five hundred, [with] their three gates; one gate of Gad, one gate of Asher, one gate of Naphtali.

35 [It was] round about eighteen thousand [measures]: and the name of the city from [that] day [shall be], The LORD [is] there.

 

[vassal]

Exodus 20 tells us sacrifices and offerings can be performed on a pile of dirt.

Abraham sacrificed way before Moses or even the mention of a temple.

You never needed a temple for offerings and sacrifices.

This argument mixes permission, history, and command, and that is where the error is.

Exodus 20 does not command every person to offer sacrifices. After giving the Ten Commandments, God allowed a simple altar if He chose to make His name remembered there. That was God’s permission, not a rule for daily worship, and not a command for the people. When sacrifices became regular and required, God assigned them to the priests, not to families in their homes. The people brought offerings, but the priests performed the sacrifices. That is why even the most faithful Israelites never sacrificed lambs in their houses every Sabbath.

Abraham offering a sacrifice before Moses does not prove a command either. Abraham’s sacrifices were voluntary acts of faith, not a law given to all people. Many righteous men prayed, obeyed, and followed God without sacrificing every day. After Sinai, God clearly limited sacrifice to the priesthood and later to the place He chose. This was to prevent confusion and false worship. That is why Jesus Himself never told people to start sacrificing again when teaching obedience to God’s commandments.

Keeping God’s commandments never meant everyone must perform sacrifices. Sacrifices were a specific duty given to priests for a specific time. Obedience, love, and faith were always required of the people. Confusing priestly duties with the commandments given to all is the real mistake here.

“But go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy and not sacrifice.’” (Matthew 9:13, NKJV)

“For I desire mercy and not sacrifice, and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.” (Hosea 6:6, NKJV)

“Has the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice.” (1 Samuel 15:22, NKJV)

“To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices to Me?” says the LORD… “Bring no more futile sacrifices… When you spread out your hands, I will hide My eyes from you.” (Isaiah 1:11, 13, 15, NKJV)

“For You do not desire sacrifice, or else I would give it; You do not delight in burnt offering. The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit, a broken and a contrite heart—These, O God, You will not despise.” (Psalm 51:16–17, NKJV)

 

[Pilgrimshope]

The New Covenant has replaced the Old Covenant. There is no justification under the law and there never was. The law was a shadow of a better covenant.

24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. Gal. 3:24

Now do I think that God is done with Israel? No I do not and the Bible says He is not. BUT He is done with the law as a means of justification.

“The New Covenant has replaced the Old Covenant. “

“For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest, and the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words; which voice they that heard intreated that the word should not be spoken to them any more: (for they could not endure that which was commanded, And if so much as a beast touch the mountain, it shall be stoned, or thrust through with a dart: and so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake

( he’s describing Mount sinia when they received the Ten Commandments)

but ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, ( now he’s talking about the gospel and what Jesus was preaching a kingdom of God in heaven ) and to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, and to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭12:18-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

There’s a new covenant indeed it’s not according to the old that israel broke


“Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:”
‭‭Jeremiah‬ ‭31:31-32‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It was always the promise

We have new covenant blood

“Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭22:20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

New covenant word

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭

“He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.”
‭‭John‬ ‭12:48-50‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We have new covenant preisthood and high priest not Aaron like the old but Jesus in the order of melchezidek who was before the levites of Aaron’s order when the law came later because of sin

“Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭3:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭4:14‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens; a minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭8:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬

theres even new people created by God by the power of the gospel to transform sinners into children of God beloved and redeemed

You’re absolutely correct the Old Testament wasn’t actually replaced but it was fulfilled as the curse wortten in it when it was broken and a new covenant was made . All I mean is it didn’t fail or not come to pass it was fulfilled according to what it said about obedience and disobedience

It was always this

“And it shall come to pass, if thou shalt hearken diligently unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe and to do all his commandments which I command thee this day, that the LORD thy God will set thee on high above all nations of the earth: and all these blessings shall come on thee, and overtake thee, if thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God. The LORD shall establish thee an holy people unto himself, as he hath sworn unto thee, if thou shalt keep the commandments of the LORD thy God, and walk in his ways. And all people of the earth shall see that thou art called by the name of the LORD; and they shall be afraid of thee. And the LORD shall make thee plenteous in goods, in the fruit of thy body, and in the fruit of thy cattle, and in the fruit of thy ground, in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers to give thee. And the LORD shall make thee the head, and not the tail; and thou shalt be above only, and thou shalt not be beneath; if that thou hearken unto the commandments of the LORD thy God, which I command thee this day, to observe and to do them: and thou shalt not go aside from any of the words which I command thee this day, to the right hand, or to the left, to go after other gods to serve them.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭28:1-2, 9-11, 13-14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

and it was always this

“But it shall come to pass, if thou wilt not hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe to do all his commandments and his statutes which I command thee this day; that all these curses shall come upon thee, and overtake thee: cursed shalt thou be in the city, and cursed shalt thou be in the field. The LORD shall send upon thee cursing, vexation, and rebuke, in all that thou settest thine hand unto for to do, until thou be destroyed, and until thou perish quickly; because of the wickedness of thy doings, whereby thou hast forsaken me. The LORD shall make the pestilence cleave unto thee, until he have consumed thee from off the land, whither thou goest to possess it. The LORD shall make the rain of thy land powder and dust: from heaven shall it come down upon thee, until thou be destroyed. And thy carcase shall be meat unto all fowls of the air, and unto the beasts of the earth, and no man shall fray them away. The fruit of thy land, and all thy labours, shall a nation which thou knowest not eat up; and thou shalt be only oppressed and crushed alway: so that thou shalt be mad for the sight of thine eyes which thou shalt see. The LORD shall smite thee in the knees, and in the legs, with a sore botch that cannot be healed, from the sole of thy foot unto the top of thy head. The LORD shall bring thee, and thy king which thou shalt set over thee, unto a nation which neither thou nor thy fathers have known; and there shalt thou serve other gods, wood and stone. And thou shalt become an astonishment, a proverb, and a byword, among all nations whither the LORD shall lead thee.

Moreover all these curses shall come upon thee, and shall pursue thee, and overtake thee, till thou be destroyed; because thou hearkenedst not unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which he commanded thee: and they shall be upon thee for a sign and for a wonder, and upon thy seed for ever.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭28:15-16, 20-21, 24, 26, 33-

many people never read the old covenant so they think it’s some sort of unconditional promise but throughout the law constantly it’s given to them just like above a blessing if they obey everything he told them constantly but a certain and deadly curse if they turn away and don’t obey and worship other gods . They chose the latter form of fulfillment that’s what led to 70 ad and the destruction of Jerusalem it’s temple which is required for the old covenant to be operated by the old priesthood and to the exile of Jews from thier land. It was written in the covenant if they broke it it would come to pass as a great and terrible curse . That was fulfilled and the lord came making the new covenant promises in the law and prophets

 

[Pilgrimshope]

pinebeach

I will add this;

After Christ has returned to earth as KING of Kings, and the third Temple is built, animal sacrifices will be re-established.

beginning in chapter 40 of Ezekiel, Christ, through Ezekiel explains all the functions ect that will take place. It also details how the Third Temple will be laid out. This Temple will be Huge. by the way, in our day there will be no temple built before Christ returns.

Christ has told us HE does not change.

Read Ezekiel, this is future after the return.

Ezekiel 48

30 And these [are] the goings out of the city on the north side, four thousand and five hundred measures.

31 And the gates of the city [shall be] after the names of the tribes of Israel: three gates northward; one gate of Reuben, one gate of Judah, one gate of Levi.

32 And at the east side four thousand and five hundred: and three gates; and one gate of Joseph, one gate of Benjamin, one gate of Dan.

33 And at the south side four thousand and five hundred measures: and three gates; one gate of Simeon, one gate of Issachar, one gate of Zebulun.

34 At the west side four thousand and five hundred, [with] their three gates; one gate of Gad, one gate of Asher, one gate of Naphtali.

35 [It was] round about eighteen thousand [measures]: and the name of the city from [that] day [shall be], The LORD [is] there.

“After Christ has returned to earth as KING of Kings, and the third Temple is built, animal sacrifices will be re-established.”

“but the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men….. But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. ….looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:7, 10, 12-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭65:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭21:1‬ ‭

“And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭21:22‬ ‭

there’s no need for a temple or animal sacrifices those things were only a pattern of what Jesus did

“Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary. For there was a tabernacle made; the first, wherein was the candlestick, and the table, and the shewbread; which is called the sanctuary. which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience; which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.

But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building; neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭9:1-2, 9-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these;( animal sacrifice ) but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. ( Christs body and blood ) For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; ( that’s what the man made temple was there’s no need for a pattern anymore we have the reality ) but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us: nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others; for then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭9:23-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭10:10‬ ‭

There’s not going to be a temple or animal sacrifices in eternity Jesus blood covers all the needs of sacrifice the one time he did it . Behavior is what matters now not making animal sacrofices or adhering to Moses words

 

[Inquisitor]

This argument mixes permission, history, and command, and that is where the error is.

Exodus 20 does not command every person to offer sacrifices. After giving the Ten Commandments, God allowed a simple altar if He chose to make His name remembered there. That was God’s permission, not a rule for daily worship, and not a command for the people. When sacrifices became regular and required, God assigned them to the priests, not to families in their homes. The people brought offerings, but the priests performed the sacrifices. That is why even the most faithful Israelites never sacrificed lambs in their houses every Sabbath.

Abraham offering a sacrifice before Moses does not prove a command either. Abraham’s sacrifices were voluntary acts of faith, not a law given to all people. Many righteous men prayed, obeyed, and followed God without sacrificing every day. After Sinai, God clearly limited sacrifice to the priesthood and later to the place He chose. This was to prevent confusion and false worship. That is why Jesus Himself never told people to start sacrificing again when teaching obedience to God’s commandments.

Keeping God’s commandments never meant everyone must perform sacrifices. Sacrifices were a specific duty given to priests for a specific time. Obedience, love, and faith were always required of the people. Confusing priestly duties with the commandments given to all is the real mistake here.

“But go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy and not sacrifice.’” (Matthew 9:13, NKJV)

“For I desire mercy and not sacrifice, and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.” (Hosea 6:6, NKJV)

“Has the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice.” (1 Samuel 15:22, NKJV)

“To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices to Me?” says the LORD… “Bring no more futile sacrifices… When you spread out your hands, I will hide My eyes from you.” (Isaiah 1:11, 13, 15, NKJV)

“For You do not desire sacrifice, or else I would give it; You do not delight in burnt offering. The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit, a broken and a contrite heart—These, O God, You will not despise.” (Psalm 51:16–17, NKJV)

Jesus had this to say about offerings.

Matthew 5:23
Therefore, if you are presenting your offering at the altar, and there you remember that your brother
has something against you, leave your offering there before the altar and go; first be reconciled to
your brother, and then come and present your offering.

Are you suggesting that the law should be disregarded?

Philippians 2:17
But even if I am being poured out as a drink offering upon the sacrifice and service of your faith,
I rejoice and share my joy with you all.

We still sacrifice and make offerings.

 

[pinebeach]

pinebeach

"it is imperative that people understand that the OT laws and sacrifices were never meant to continue after Jesus life, death and resurrection."

If what you have written, Were true, why then does the WORD of God state otherwise?

Isaiah 66

22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.

23 And it shall come to pass, [that] from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.


Zechariah 14

16 And it shall come to pass, [that] every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

17 And it shall be, [that] whoso will not come up of [all] the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.

18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that [have] no [rain]; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

Micah 4

1 But in the last days it shall come to pass, [that] the mountain of the house of the LORD shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it.


2 And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.

The word "law" is the Hebrew word Torah #8451

The Torah is eternal, the Torah reveals to man the Divine Nature and Mind of God.

Christ, as He said, did not come to abolish the Torah, He came to add the Spiritual to the Physical, the Torah is now complete.

You are also repeating the FALSE statement that those who understand the law is not salvation, say there is no more law.

Not to be rude, but can you read? NO ONE HERE HAS SAID THERE IS NO MORE LAW. And by the way, that is all explained in the New Testament.

 

[pinebeach]

After Christ has returned to earth as KING of Kings, and the third Temple is built, animal sacrifices will be re-established.

False.

10 For since the law has but a shadow of the good things to come instead of the true form of these realities, it can never, by the same sacrifices that are continually offered every year, make perfect those who draw near. 2 Otherwise, would they not have ceased to be offered, since the worshipers, having once been cleansed, would no longer have any consciousness of sins? 3 But in these sacrifices there is a reminder of sins every year. 4 For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.


5 Consequently, when Christ came into the world, he said,

“Sacrifices and offerings you have not desired,
but a body have you prepared for me;
6 in burnt offerings and sin offerings
you have taken no pleasure.
7 Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come to do your will, O God,
as it is written of me in the scroll of the book.’”
8 When he said above, “You have neither desired nor taken pleasure in sacrifices and offerings and burnt offerings and sin offerings” (these are offered according to the law), 9 then he added, “Behold, I have come to do your will.” He does away with the first in order to establish the second. 10 And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

11 And every priest stands daily at his service, offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12 But when Christ[b] had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, 13 waiting from that time until his enemies should be made a footstool for his feet. 14 For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified.

15 And the Holy Spirit also bears witness to us; for after saying,

16 “This is the covenant that I will make with them
after those days, declares the Lord:
I will put my laws on their hearts,
and write them on their minds,”
17 then he adds,

“I will remember their sins and their lawless deeds no more.”
18 Where there is forgiveness of these, there is no longer any offering for sin.

Hebrews 10

The Bible disagrees with your particularly off interpretation. Perhaps you want to hang onto your sins, and by the way you are if you think the commandments replace the sacrifice of Jesus, but my sins are forgiven. The blood of Christ has cleansed me and I am declared righteous in God's eyes.

Why you people insist the commandments are salvation, when they are condemnation, is bad enough.

But now you insult God's perfect gift to us by saying that sacrifices will once again be the order of the day for forgiveness of sin when Jesus returns. It seems to me that you want to return God's gift.

Go ahead but I will keep what God has given me through His Son.

Y'all are getting close to blasphemy at this point.

 

[memberofthebride]

Pinebeach

God's prophet Ezekiel, in multiple chapters explains how the Third Temple, after the return, will built and how it will be used, and who will work there in.

Sorry, I believe the Word of God.

I full well understand Eternal life, not heaven, is a free gift, a non-earn-able "GIFT".

I fully understand sacrificing animals does nothing, only the Blood Christ split on the ground, pays for my sins

I also understand we must obey, those that refuse to DO what Christ commands us to DO,, will be cast into the Lake of Fire.

Luke 19

27But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

I have lived by the "10" Commandments, the statutes and the Judgments for many decades, including the 4th, THE 7th Day Sabbath. although not perfectly, as I am imperfect and will be until the First Resurrection.

No amount of commandment keeping will earn anyone eternal life.

I did not say the sacrifices will be needed when Christ returns, I just know what I read,

Ask the very soon coming KING why He will construct a Huge Temple, and begin sacrifices? HE, not me!

The temple the Jews want to build is a copy of Herod's, The Temple Christ will build is huge and very different.

 

[pinebeach]

memberofthebride, post: 5641630,:

God's prophet Ezekiel, in multiple chapters explains how the Third Temple, after the return, will built and how it will be used, and who will work there in.

Sorry, I believe the Word of God.

I full well understand Eternal life, not heaven, is a free gift, a non-earn-able "GIFT".

I fully understand sacrificing animals does nothing, only the Blood Christ split on the ground, pays for my sins

I also understand we must obey, those that refuse to DO what Christ commands us to DO,, will be cast into the Lake of Fire.

Luke 19

27But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

I have lived by the "10" Commandments, the statutes and the Judgments for many decades, including the 4th, THE 7th Day Sabbath. although not perfectly, as I am imperfect and will be until the First Resurrection.

Are you expecting a reward then? You can sacrifice animals in your backyard. None of it has any impact on salvation through Christ.
None of it and further, I don't care about your very busy Old Testament Jewish life. What irks me, is the fact that you brag on this as though we all should follow suit. You are leading a double life if you follow all of the above and in the next breath say you follow Jesus. Hey! news flash! I am not your judge; you judge yourself by what you do and if you want to live as though you were a Jew, go for it. It's your business but it is not a part of New Testament teaching.

No amount of commandment keeping will earn anyone eternal life.

I did not say the sacrifices will be needed when Christ returns, I just know what I read,

Ask the very soon coming KING why He will construct a Huge Temple, and begin sacrifices? HE, not me!

The temple the Jews want to build is a copy of Herod's, The Temple Christ will build is huge and very different.

Quite the composite belief system. No thank you. It's not biblical. I'm not looking for the 3rd temple, of which I am aware. I've got my eyes on Jesus thank you very much.

 

[vassal]

Jesus had this to say about offerings.

Matthew 5:23
Therefore, if you are presenting your offering at the altar, and there you remember that your brother
has something against you, leave your offering there before the altar and go; first be reconciled to
your brother, and then come and present your offering.

Are you suggesting that the law should be disregarded?

Philippians 2:17
But even if I am being poured out as a drink offering upon the sacrifice and service of your faith,
I rejoice and share my joy with you all.

We still sacrifice and make offerings.

the jews did yes but what about the gentiles, what about now there is no temple no priests. This discussion is all about NOW not about 2000 years ago!

 

[pinebeach]

Yeah, it's really off putting the way certain people keep saying the same thing over and over until you fall asleep and hope not to have nightmares. While saying they never said we don't keep the commandments or the Sabbath and are judged and going to hell,(the op's famous words) they will say they did not say that.

Double minded? Forgetful? Hoping to create an arguement and make it personal instead of discussing the actual op?

All of the above, or none of it, I don't care. These things are always said when a lawkeeper comes on board. It does not seem to matter how many times you say that it is not true that we think it is ok to sin, you will be told that you do in fact continue to sin and the worse sin of all, the one that will throw you into the lake of fire, is not keeping the Sabbath.


6Therefore, just as you have received Christ Jesus as Lord, continue to walk in Him, 7rooted and built up in Him, established in the faith as you were taught, and overflowing with thankfulness.

8See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, which are based on human tradition and the spiritual forces of the world rather than on Christ. 9For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity dwells in bodily form. 10And you have been made complete in Christ, who is the head over every ruler and authority.

11In Him you were also circumcised, in the putting off of your sinful nature, with the circumcision performed by Christb and not by human hands. 12And having been buried with Him in baptism, you were raised with Him through your faith in the power of God, who raised Him from the dead.

13When you were dead in your trespasses and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our trespasses, 14having canceled the debt ascribed to us in the decrees that stood against us. He took it away, nailing it to the cross! 15And having disarmed the powers and authorities, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.

16Therefore let no one judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a feast, a New Moon, or a Sabbath. 17These are a shadow of the things to come, but the body that casts it belongs to Christ.c 18Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you with speculation about what he has seen. Such a person is puffed up without basis by his unspiritual mind. 19He has lost connection to the head, from whom the whole body, supported and knit together by its joints and ligaments, grows as God causes it to grow.

20If you have died with Christ to the spiritual forces of the world, why, as though you still belonged to the world, do you submit to its regulations: 21“Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch!”? 22These will all perish with use, because they are based on human commands and teachings. 23Such restrictions indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-prescribed worship, their false humility, and their harsh treatment of the body; but they are of no value against the indulgence of the flesh. Colossians 2

Now if you (not anyone specifically but if the shoe fits...) do not agree with the above scripture and want a comeback with the commandments and or the Sabbath? You are actually disagreeing with what is written in Scripture and yes, it does seem a sad number of people think Paul can just be ignored.

Is this stubborness? Rebellion? Self-agrandizement? Perhaps someone needing fences and borders cause they are too scared to leave the basement?

Only they know

 

[vassal]

The Way of Salvation and Eternal Life

To Those who Believe in Christ and Keep His words,
grace to you and peace from God our Father and our Lord Jesus Christ.

I write to you concerning the most essential matter of life, the way to remain saved and possess eternal life. There is but one way, one truth, and one life, and it is through our Lord Jesus Christ. As He Himself said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me” (John 14:6, NKJV).

Salvation is not by works, so that no one may boast, but by grace through faith. We are saved when we believe in the finished work of Christ on the cross, trusting Him as the Son of God who bore our sins, died in our place, and rose again for our justification. The apostle Paul said, “If you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved” (Romans 10:9, NKJV).

Those who are saved are not those who simply call themselves believers, but those who have genuinely received Christ into their hearts. They are those who have been born again, born of the Spirit, and sealed with the Holy Spirit. Just as Jesus told Nicodemus, “Unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God” (John 3:3, NKJV). The evidence of being born again is a transformed life—one that turns away from sin and follows Christ.

“For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life” (John 3:16, NKJV). The promise is clear: eternal life belongs to those who believe in Jesus Christ, who abide in His word, and who live according to His commands.

You who are saved, hold fast to the faith. Do not depart from the path that leads to life. The Scripture says, “But he who endures to the end shall be saved” (Matthew 24:13, NKJV). Your salvation is secure, but only as long as you remain in Him, for “If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned” (John 15:6, NKJV).

The Danger of Not Keeping God’s Word

But woe to those who hear the word and do not keep it, for they will not inherit eternal life. “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven” (Matthew 7:21, NKJV).

You must understand, beloved, that salvation is not merely a verbal profession; it is a life surrendered to God, lived out in obedience to His Word. Many in this world hear the gospel, and many even profess to know God, but they do not do His will. This is the danger of a heart that does not submit to His Word.

Consider the parable of the sower (Matthew 13:3-9). Some hear the word of God, but their hearts are like the path where the seed is sown and quickly snatched away by the enemy. These are those who hear the gospel but do not hold fast to it, and so they are lost.

Others receive the word with joy, but when trials and tribulations arise, they fall away. These are those who do not endure to the end. They may seem to believe for a time, but when faced with difficulty, they abandon the faith, showing that their belief was not deep-rooted.

Then, there are those whose hearts are like the thorny ground. They receive the word, but the cares of this life, the deceitfulness of riches, and the desires for other things choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful (Mark 4:18-19). These are the people whose love for the world exceeds their love for God, and as a result, they bear no fruit of righteousness.

Finally, there are those whose hearts are like good soil, those who hear the word, understand it, and keep it, and bear fruit in their lives (Matthew 13:23). These are the ones who will inherit eternal life, for they keep the word of Christ and endure in it.

As Jesus said, “If you love Me, keep My commandments” (John 14:15, NKJV). The word of God is clear: to be saved, one must not only hear but obey His word. Those who do not keep God’s word, whose hearts are hardened, whose lives are unfruitful, will not inherit the kingdom of God. Their end will be like the foolish man who built his house on the sand. When the storms came, it fell, and great was its fall (Matthew 7:26-27).

The Lord also warned us with another parable: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field; but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat and went his way” (Matthew 13:24-25, NKJV). The tares represent those who are among the true believers but are not genuinely saved. They look like believers on the outside, but they do not bear the fruit of the kingdom of God. In the end, the angels will gather the tares and cast them into the fire. So, it is with those who do not keep God’s word.

Let this be clear: eternal life is promised to those who remain in Christ, who live by His word, and who endure to the end. “He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me” (John 14:21, NKJV). The love of God is not a feeling or a mere verbal declaration; it is seen in action, in obedience to His word.

To Keep God’s Word and Inherit Eternal Life

Therefore, beloved, let us not be hearers only, deceiving ourselves, but doers of the word (James 1:22). Let us continue in the faith, steadfast, unmovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that our labor is not in vain in Him (1 Corinthians 15:58). Remember, Jesus has promised eternal life to those who remain faithful to His word, and He is able to keep us from stumbling and present us faultless before the presence of His glory with exceeding joy (Jude 24).

Be encouraged, be diligent, and continue to press forward toward the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus (Philippians 3:14). For it is written, “And this is the promise that He has promised us—eternal life” (1 John 2:25, NKJV). Keep His word, endure in faith, and you will inherit the eternal life He has promised.

Grace and peace be with you.

This is my last post on this thread.

 

[Inquisitor]

False.

10 For since the law has but a shadow of the good things to come instead of the true form of these realities, it can never, by the same sacrifices that are continually offered every year, make perfect those who draw near. 2 Otherwise, would they not have ceased to be offered, since the worshipers, having once been cleansed, would no longer have any consciousness of sins? 3 But in these sacrifices there is a reminder of sins every year. 4 For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.


5 Consequently, when Christ came into the world, he said,

“Sacrifices and offerings you have not desired,
but a body have you prepared for me;
6 in burnt offerings and sin offerings
you have taken no pleasure.
7 Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come to do your will, O God,
as it is written of me in the scroll of the book.’”
8 When he said above, “You have neither desired nor taken pleasure in sacrifices and offerings and burnt offerings and sin offerings” (these are offered according to the law), 9 then he added, “Behold, I have come to do your will.” He does away with the first in order to establish the second. 10 And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

11 And every priest stands daily at his service, offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12 But when Christ[b] had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, 13 waiting from that time until his enemies should be made a footstool for his feet. 14 For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified.

15 And the Holy Spirit also bears witness to us; for after saying,

16 “This is the covenant that I will make with them
after those days, declares the Lord:
I will put my laws on their hearts,
and write them on their minds,”
17 then he adds,

“I will remember their sins and their lawless deeds no more.”
18 Where there is forgiveness of these, there is no longer any offering for sin.

Hebrews 10

The Bible disagrees with your particularly off interpretation. Perhaps you want to hang onto your sins, and by the way you are if you think the commandments replace the sacrifice of Jesus, but my sins are forgiven. The blood of Christ has cleansed me and I am declared righteous in God's eyes.

Why you people insist the commandments are salvation, when they are condemnation, is bad enough.

But now you insult God's perfect gift to us by saying that sacrifices will once again be the order of the day for forgiveness of sin when Jesus returns. It seems to me that you want to return God's gift.

Go ahead but I will keep what God has given me through His Son.

Y'all are getting close to blasphemy at this point.

The line below is a slap in the face for any legalist.

10 For since the law has but a shadow of the good things to come instead of the true form of these realities

We see the identical statement in another verse below.

Colossians 2:16
Therefore, no one is to act as your judge in regard to food and drink, or in respect to a festival or a new moon,
or a Sabbath day. Things which are only a shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.

The law is clearly the shadow of the reality of Jesus Christ.

If anyone cannot see that the entire Mosaic law was a complex prophecy of the Christ. Then what
could be more clear in the scripture?

If you cannot understand messianic prophecy then please accept that Jesus. Was the only
person in history that could fulfill (obey) the law.

Since Jesus perfectly accomplished and beyond what the law ever required. I receive His righteousness
and that righteousness resulted from a perfect obedience to the law.

Anyone who dares to accuse me of a transgression of the law is directly accusing Jesus Himself.

 

[Inquisitor]

The Way of Salvation and Eternal Life

To Those who Believe in Christ and Keep His words,
grace to you and peace from God our Father and our Lord Jesus Christ.

I write to you concerning the most essential matter of life, the way to remain saved and possess eternal life. There is but one way, one truth, and one life, and it is through our Lord Jesus Christ. As He Himself said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me” (John 14:6, NKJV).

Salvation is not by works, so that no one may boast, but by grace through faith. We are saved when we believe in the finished work of Christ on the cross, trusting Him as the Son of God who bore our sins, died in our place, and rose again for our justification. The apostle Paul said, “If you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved” (Romans 10:9, NKJV).

Those who are saved are not those who simply call themselves believers, but those who have genuinely received Christ into their hearts. They are those who have been born again, born of the Spirit, and sealed with the Holy Spirit. Just as Jesus told Nicodemus, “Unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God” (John 3:3, NKJV). The evidence of being born again is a transformed life—one that turns away from sin and follows Christ.

“For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life” (John 3:16, NKJV). The promise is clear: eternal life belongs to those who believe in Jesus Christ, who abide in His word, and who live according to His commands.

You who are saved, hold fast to the faith. Do not depart from the path that leads to life. The Scripture says, “But he who endures to the end shall be saved” (Matthew 24:13, NKJV). Your salvation is secure, but only as long as you remain in Him, for “If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned” (John 15:6, NKJV).

The Danger of Not Keeping God’s Word

But woe to those who hear the word and do not keep it, for they will not inherit eternal life. “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven” (Matthew 7:21, NKJV).

You must understand, beloved, that salvation is not merely a verbal profession; it is a life surrendered to God, lived out in obedience to His Word. Many in this world hear the gospel, and many even profess to know God, but they do not do His will. This is the danger of a heart that does not submit to His Word.

Consider the parable of the sower (Matthew 13:3-9). Some hear the word of God, but their hearts are like the path where the seed is sown and quickly snatched away by the enemy. These are those who hear the gospel but do not hold fast to it, and so they are lost.

Others receive the word with joy, but when trials and tribulations arise, they fall away. These are those who do not endure to the end. They may seem to believe for a time, but when faced with difficulty, they abandon the faith, showing that their belief was not deep-rooted.

Then, there are those whose hearts are like the thorny ground. They receive the word, but the cares of this life, the deceitfulness of riches, and the desires for other things choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful (Mark 4:18-19). These are the people whose love for the world exceeds their love for God, and as a result, they bear no fruit of righteousness.

Finally, there are those whose hearts are like good soil, those who hear the word, understand it, and keep it, and bear fruit in their lives (Matthew 13:23). These are the ones who will inherit eternal life, for they keep the word of Christ and endure in it.

As Jesus said, “If you love Me, keep My commandments” (John 14:15, NKJV). The word of God is clear: to be saved, one must not only hear but obey His word. Those who do not keep God’s word, whose hearts are hardened, whose lives are unfruitful, will not inherit the kingdom of God. Their end will be like the foolish man who built his house on the sand. When the storms came, it fell, and great was its fall (Matthew 7:26-27).

The Lord also warned us with another parable: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field; but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat and went his way” (Matthew 13:24-25, NKJV). The tares represent those who are among the true believers but are not genuinely saved. They look like believers on the outside, but they do not bear the fruit of the kingdom of God. In the end, the angels will gather the tares and cast them into the fire. So, it is with those who do not keep God’s word.

Let this be clear: eternal life is promised to those who remain in Christ, who live by His word, and who endure to the end. “He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me” (John 14:21, NKJV). The love of God is not a feeling or a mere verbal declaration; it is seen in action, in obedience to His word.

To Keep God’s Word and Inherit Eternal Life

Therefore, beloved, let us not be hearers only, deceiving ourselves, but doers of the word (James 1:22). Let us continue in the faith, steadfast, unmovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that our labor is not in vain in Him (1 Corinthians 15:58). Remember, Jesus has promised eternal life to those who remain faithful to His word, and He is able to keep us from stumbling and present us faultless before the presence of His glory with exceeding joy (Jude 24).

Be encouraged, be diligent, and continue to press forward toward the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus (Philippians 3:14). For it is written, “And this is the promise that He has promised us—eternal life” (1 John 2:25, NKJV). Keep His word, endure in faith, and you will inherit the eternal life He has promised.

Grace and peace be with you.

This is my last post on this thread.

Your leaving?

You stated this sentence in your last post.

To Those who Believe in Christ and Keep His words, grace to you and peace from God our Father and our Lord Jesus Christ.

The word of Jesus Christ is not the law of Moses it is the law of Christ!

You still have not replied to the question I asked.

What is the law of Christ?

What is the royal law?

Bear one another’s burdens, and thereby fulfill the law of Christ.

How can bearing another's burden fulfill the law of Christ?

 

[vassal]

Your leaving?

You stated this sentence in your last post.

To Those who Believe in Christ and Keep His words, grace to you and peace from God our Father and our Lord Jesus Christ.

The word of Jesus Christ is not the law of Moses it is the law of Christ!

You still have not replied to the question I asked.

What is the law of Christ?

What is the royal law?

Bear one another’s burdens, and thereby fulfill the law of Christ.

How can bearing another's burden fulfill the law of Christ?

I did not forget you look for new threads in the next few days,

Blessings

 

[memberofthebride]

memberofthebride, post: 5641630,:

God's prophet Ezekiel, in multiple chapters explains how the Third Temple, after the return, will built and how it will be used, and who will work there in.

Sorry, I believe the Word of God.

I full well understand Eternal life, not heaven, is a free gift, a non-earn-able "GIFT".

I fully understand sacrificing animals does nothing, only the Blood Christ split on the ground, pays for my sins

I also understand we must obey, those that refuse to DO what Christ commands us to DO,, will be cast into the Lake of Fire.

Luke 19

27But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

I have lived by the "10" Commandments, the statutes and the Judgments for many decades, including the 4th, THE 7th Day Sabbath. although not perfectly, as I am imperfect and will be until the First Resurrection.

Are you expecting a reward then? You can sacrifice animals in your backyard. None of it has any impact on salvation through Christ.
None of it and further, I don't care about your very busy Old Testament Jewish life. What irks me, is the fact that you brag on this as though we all should follow suit. You are leading a double life if you follow all of the above and in the next breath say you follow Jesus. Hey! news flash! I am not your judge; you judge yourself by what you do and if you want to live as though you were a Jew, go for it. It's your business but it is not a part of New Testament teaching.

No amount of commandment keeping will earn anyone eternal life.

I did not say the sacrifices will be needed when Christ returns, I just know what I read,

Ask the very soon coming KING why He will construct a Huge Temple, and begin sacrifices? HE, not me!

The temple the Jews want to build is a copy of Herod's, The Temple Christ will build is huge and very different.

Quite the composite belief system. No thank you. It's not biblical. I'm not looking for the 3rd temple, of which I am aware. I've got my eyes on Jesus thank you very much.

I do not sacrifice animals and yes I expect a reward and Jesus Christ stated HE is bringing it with HIM at His return, He will reward every man according to their work.

I realize there are many like you that believe the New Testament cancelled the Old, are you aware the New did not exist for over 300 years and even then it was not available to the public as the catholic church only allowed priest to read it for the next 1260 years ------ which means all those following Christ had was the OLD for 1600 years. yes they had the letter, which they used to search the Old Testament, as the letters had many quotes from the Old.

Have you ever read what Paul said? This was over 300 years before this letter was put in what we call the New Testament

2 Timothy 3
15 And that from a child thou hast known the “Holy Scriptures”, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

16 “All” scripture [is]
given by inspiration of God, and Thus the OLD is OF God
[is] profitable for doctrine, FOR DOCTRINE
for reproof,
for correction,
for instruction in righteousness:

17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works. ---“Good works”.

 

[soulprobe]

This will haunt you unfortunately.

Sometimes I wonder if I should even mention any of this.

Not at all... I appreciate you contributing your experience to get me to the source of all this as I just assumed all this nonsense started with the SDA founder.