Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[reneweddaybyday]

Wow people really think like this? it makes no sense the natural man cannot never has and never will understand the things of the spirit you can be a carnal Christian but that is not a good thing that is bad very bad.

Hi Blain ... just clarifying for you ... no one has stated that the gospel of Christ is not spiritual. What has been stated is that 1 Corinthians 2:14 relates to the mystery of God, the hidden wisdom spoken of in 1 Corinthians 2:7.

This mystery of God is separate and distinct from the gospel of Christ.

I explained this to Magenta here.

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[reneweddaybyday]

Neither can he submit to nor obey God

I do not agree with this statement. I believe natural man can believe truth from Scripture ...

Lots of folks who are not born again believe God created the heavens and the earth.

Lots of folks who are not born again believe thou shalt not murder ... thou shalt not steal ... parents are to train their children

neither can the flesh please God

in agreement here. Believing God created the heavens and the earth will not result in being born again ...

not committing murder ... not stealing ... parents training children ... while "good" things to do because in alignment with what God tells us we should do ... these things will not result in being born again.

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[NightTwister]

I do not agree with this statement. I believe natural man can believe truth from Scripture ...

Lots of folks who are not born again believe God created the heavens and the earth.

Lots of folks who are not born again believe thou shalt not murder ... thou shalt not steal ... parents are to train their children





in agreement here. Believing God created the heavens and the earth will not result in being born again ...

not committing murder ... not stealing ... parents training children ... while "good" things to do because in alignment with what God tells us we should do ... these things will not result in being born again.

.

There's believing, and there's believing unto salvation. There's understanding, and there's enlightened understanding by the HS. One of those things is not like the other.

 

[Cameron143]

But that is where you constantly ignore what we say about our will and it's place in God's design. The fact remains, a question you never did answer btw, is that you believe we make a free will decision to trust God's word is true just as much as we do. God does not make the decision for us.

I have repeatedly shown how believing something does not cause it to happen but it is ignored so you and others can continue to argue against something none of us have said.

Salvation is by God's hand alone, always has been, always will be.

Wrong again. I believe we make a choice. The will is never free. It is either a slave to sin or a slave to righteousness. We can only have 1 master. But we always serve a master.

 

[sawdust]

Wrong again. I believe we make a choice. The will is never free. It is either a slave to sin or a slave to righteousness. We can only have 1 master. But we always serve a master.

And you are free to make that choice of your own volition. Anything less is coercion, manipulation or force. Freedom can only operate under authority. Without authority actions can only be chaotic, not free.

Who wants to be loved by one under compulsion? That is not love nor is it service with gratitude and thankfulness of heart.

If the Son has set you free, you are free indeed!

 

[sawdust]

There's believing, and there's believing unto salvation. There's understanding, and there's enlightened understanding by the HS. One of those things is not like the other.

Strewth. There is believing and there is not believing. There is understanding and there is not understanding. It is the object of one's belief and understanding that determines salvation and enlightenment, not the quality of belief or understanding.

 

[Cameron143]

And you are free to make that choice of your own volition. Anything less is coercion, manipulation or force. Freedom can only operate under authority. Without authority actions can only be chaotic, not free.

Who wants to be loved by one under compulsion? That is not love nor is it service with gratitude and thankfulness of heart.

If the Son has set you free, you are free indeed!

The argument has never been about volition, but freewill. It's disingenuous now to claim we have volition and not freewill when this is the argument one side has been making all along. It has been the conflation of the 2 that has been argued against the whole time.

 

[Jordon]

where's the post, Jordon? claims are being made and I'd like to read the post ... thanks!

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awe people will be in disagreement forever here, and I really can't be bothered entertaining it anymore,

 

[Blain]

Hi Blain ... just clarifying for you ... no one has stated that the gospel of Christ is not spiritual. What has been stated is that 1 Corinthians 2:14 relates to the mystery of God, the hidden wisdom spoken of in 1 Corinthians 2:7.

This mystery of God is separate and distinct from the gospel of Christ.

I explained this to Magenta here.

.

ok well that is good at least because that would be an issue if it was the case, the mystery of God being distinct from the gospel... well that I am so sure about because the gospel was a mystery that is why Jesus spoke to them in parables and rvealed the meaning to the apostles

 

[Blain]

And you are free to make that choice of your own volition. Anything less is coercion, manipulation or force. Freedom can only operate under authority. Without authority actions can only be chaotic, not free.

Who wants to be loved by one under compulsion? That is not love nor is it service with gratitude and thankfulness of heart.

If the Son has set you free, you are free indeed!

If I may I believe the freedom spoken of is freedom from the chains of sin the power sin had over people they were in bondage of the law at the time.

We are not entirely free as far as our will because we sumbit out will to the father we become slaves to Christ willingly

 

[BillyBob]

There's believing, and there's believing unto salvation. There's understanding, and there's enlightened understanding by the HS. One of those things is not like the other.

James 2:19
You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble!

 

[Magenta]

ok well that is good at least because that would be an issue if it was the case, the mystery of God being distinct from the gospel... well that I am so sure about because the gospel was a mystery that is why Jesus spoke to them in parables and rvealed the meaning to the apostles

Isaiah 6 verses 9-10, Luke 8 verse 10, (Matthew 13 verses 14-15, Mark 4 verse 12, Romans 11 verse 8, John 12 verses 39-40, Acts 28 verses 26-27, Ezekiel 12 verse 2, Jeremiah 5 verse 21, Deuteronomy 29 verse 4, Psalm 115 verses 4-8, Psalm 135 verses 15-18) ~ The voice of the Lord said: “Go and tell this people, ‘Be ever hearing, but never understanding; be ever seeing, but never perceiving.’ Make the hearts of this people calloused; deafen their ears and close their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts, and turn and be healed.” The knowledge of the mysteries of the kingdom of God has been given to you, but to others I speak in parables, so that, ‘though seeing, they may not see; though hearing, they may not understand.’

 

[HeIsHere]

The argument has never been about volition, but freewill. It's disingenuous now to claim we have volition and not freewill when this is the argument one side has been making all along. It has been the conflation of the 2 that has been argued against the whole time.

Nah, the error is falsely separating volition and will

The other error is making it a zero game, as in wholly one or the other, to support a false "system."

We do NOT AGREE that a man is born incapable of willingly admitting that he needs help, belief that a man is born in a prison cell is distinct from the belief that the man is incapable of acknowledging that he is in a prison cell and accepting help to escape when it is clearly offered.


No where in scripture is there a clear situation of regeneration preceding faith, it must be read into the passage.

#ContextKillsCalvinism

 

[Magenta]

Nah, the error is falsely separating volition and will

The error is believing volition means the will is free when Scripture teaches the opposite.

 

[Magenta]

The other error is making it a zero game, as in wholly one or the other, to support a false "system."

Wrong again. One is either a slave to sin or a slave to righteousness.

Unless you disagree with Jesus, which you do on many counts.

 

[Blain]

Wrong again. One is either a slave to sin or a slave to righteousness.

Unless you disagree with Jesus, which you do on many counts.

It is a simple concept we are either slaves to sin or righteousness I don't understand what is so hard to grasp about that

 

[Cameron143]

Nah, the error is falsely separating volition and will

The other error is making it a zero game, as in wholly one or the other, to support a false "system."

We do NOT AGREE that a man is born incapable of willingly admitting that he needs help, belief that a man is born in a prison cell is distinct from the belief that the man is incapable of acknowledging that he is in a prison cell and accepting help to escape when it is clearly offered.


No where in scripture is there a clear situation of regeneration preceding faith, it must be read into the passage.

#ContextKillsCalvinism

I get it. Your salvation only requires God in part. But true salvation requires God in all.

 

[Magenta]

It is a simple concept we are either slaves to sin or righteousness I don't understand what is so hard to grasp about that

It is part and parcel of the Pelagian heresy: man is not the creature God's Word says he is. He's a good guy.
He ain't so bad, and sure as heck is no slave to sin, according to them. One free willer claimed that the only
slaves to sin were those who sinned willingly, and the only ones who sinned willingly or wilfully were atheists
(those who say there is no God), but that is not what Jesus said at all. He said all who sinned were slaves to sin.
But these free willers contradict and deny what Scripture plainly says, and feel free to butcher what Jesus said.

Jesus replied, “Truly, truly, I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin." John 8 v 34 Not, only those who choose to sin or only atheists. Everyone who sins is a slave to sin. Romans 3 v 23 - all have sinned...

 

[Jordon]

It is a simple concept we are either slaves to sin or righteousness I don't understand what is so hard to grasp about that

That was my opening post some 3000 posts ago ,

But the word slave is the issue for free will, so of course we know that free will is never going to agree, especially since it has a law of it's own lol,

 

[Magenta]

We do NOT AGREE that a man is born incapable of willingly admitting that he needs help

You keep moving the goal posts. Admitting one needs help? LOL. Where do you come up with this stuff?

Fabrications and misrepresentations are a free will specialty.

In fact you have claimed man does not need divine intervention to come to belief.

Scripture says something quite different.