Scripture is Clear, Being Born Again, Anew, or from Above; Precedes Faith

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Reading these replies, I'll comment on a couple I noticed. Beginning with John 1:12-13.

But to all who received him, who believed in his name, he gave power to become children of God, who were born, not of blood or of the will of the flesh or of the will of man, but of God. (Joh 1:12-13 NRSVue)

Notice, the entire sentence is not v12 alone, but v12 followed by v13. A man’s receiving and believing are acts of the man’s will, correct? Yet, v13 makes clear it was not by the will of blood, flesh or man-- but were born from the will of God! Man’s will did not birth him spiritually any more than his will birthed him into this world from the womb.

The argument that in Eph. 2:1ff that belief is by the mind, not the spirit and it is only the spirit that is dead in this passage. That is based on the unorthodox idea that man is “body, soul & spirit”, when the Bible indicates man is body and soul. The idea of separating mind from spirit in this manner just seems weird as you read the New Testament.

The standard or orthodox view of man’s nature in Christian theology is designated dichotomy which views man as “body and soul”. There is another view sometimes encountered, trichotomy, which views man as “body, soul and spirit”. This view originated in Greek philosophy and has not held the major part of the church in history. The idea that man can believe with the mind and not the spirit, is based on that idea from Greek philosophy. For a discussion of why dichotomy is the true biblical view is discussed in Berkhofs Systematic Theolgy, pages 207-210:
Systematic Theology, by Louis Berkhof

Regarding the following:

“A certain woman named Lydia, a worshiper of God, was listening to us; she was from the city of Thyatira and a dealer in purple cloth. The Lord opened her heart to listen eagerly to what was said by Paul. When she and her household were baptized, she urged us, saying, “If you have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come and stay at my home.” And she prevailed upon us.” (Act 16:14-15 NRSVue)

Explain what the underlined means if not the new birth. Maybe this is another argument that is based on the discredited idea that man is body, soul and spirit; trichotomy. A quote from Outlines of Theology by A.A. Hodge –

The Scriptures teach that man is composed of two elements, רָשָׂבּ, σῶμα, corpus, body, and ַחוּר, πνεῦμα, ψυχή, πνοὴ , ζωή, animus, soul, spirit. This is clearly revealed—

1st. In the account of creation.—Genesis 2:7. The body was formed of the earth, and then God breathed into man the breath of life and he became thenceforth a living soul.

2nd. In the account given of death, Ecclesiastes 12:7, and of the state of soul immediately after death, while the bodies are decaying in the ground.—2 Corinthians 5:1–8; Philippians 1:23,24; Acts 7:59.

3rd. In all the current language of Scripture these two elements are always assumed, and none other are mentioned.
Outlines of Theology
 
When I was young, I knew this old Jew that looked like Roger Moore the actor that plays James Bond 007. I asked him one time, "Why do y'all follow these rules?" And he said that he doesn't know that they just follow these customs. And they don't believe in demonic spirits, that they believe all spirits are from God.
And if anyone doesn't know God, that He'll said to those who preached or teach to others about Him but don't know Him, that He'll say to them, "I never knew them", because they didn't take out the time to get to know who He is.
Like Jonah disobeyed God but God never banished Jonah because Jonah knew God and what He may do.

Love is made up of different parts like empathy is one. In order to have empathy you must been in somewhat the same situation of the person that you're showing empathy too. But to love God, you must walk in His shoes to see how He's feeling about certain things. That's why we must go through troubles to understand Him.
And so, be prepare to pick up your cross and follow after Him.

The reason why so many Jews joined the Civil rights movement? It's because many of the Jews grandparents were saying that's how they were treated in Nazi Germany. That many of the Jew's grandkids started showing empathy towards the Blacks that they've gotten involved. That they were showing love to complete strangers.

Matthew 7:23
Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

Jonah 4:2
He prayed to the Lord, “Isn’t this what I said, Lord, when I was still at home? That is what I tried to forestall by fleeing to Tarshish. I knew that you are a gracious and compassionate God, slow to anger and abounding in love, a God who relents from sending calamity.
What does any of this have to do with our discussion, or with this thread?
 
Reading these replies, I'll comment on a couple I noticed. Beginning with John 1:12-13.

But to all who received him, who believed in his name, he gave power to become children of God, who were born, not of blood or of the will of the flesh or of the will of man, but of God. (Joh 1:12-13 NRSVue)

Notice, the entire sentence is not v12 alone, but v12 followed by v13. A man’s receiving and believing are acts of the man’s will, correct? Yet, v13 makes clear it was not by the will of blood, flesh or man-- but were born from the will of God! Man’s will did not birth him spiritually any more than his will birthed him into this world from the womb.
You accurately quoted the text, but then you misrepresented it. It does not say "from the will of God"; rather, it says simply, "of God".

Further, the order is clear: receipt/belief, then power given to those who are born of God.

Nothing in the text suggests that the "born of God" predates the belief. Rather, it implies that belief results in rebirth.

The argument that in Eph. 2:1ff that belief is by the mind, not the spirit and it is only the spirit that is dead in this passage. That is based on the unorthodox idea that man is “body, soul & spirit”, when the Bible indicates man is body and soul. The idea of separating mind from spirit in this manner just seems weird as you read the New Testament.
Perhaps you should read the New Testament more closely...

1 Thessalonians 5:23 Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be kept complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is living and active, and sharper than any two-edged sword, even penetrating as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart.

The opinions of scholars about Scripture are irrelevant when they contradict clear Scripture.
 
Notice, the entire sentence is not v12 alone, but v12 followed by v13. A man’s receiving and believing are acts of the man’s will, correct? Yet, v13 makes clear it was not by the will of blood, flesh or man-- but were born from the will of God! Man’s will did not birth him spiritually any more than his will birthed him into this world from the womb.

Who has said here that man's will caused him to be reborn? It is man's will to believe, it is God's will that gives the power to be born. It seems to me you are trying to make the verse say it is God's will to make the man believe.

The verse clearly states the power (from God) is given to those who believe ergo, believe then reborn. The power of the new birth is not given to those who don't believe.
 
What does any of this have to do with our discussion, or with this thread?
I was responding from a previous discussion we had about being a slave to the law. That someone who's a slave doesn't knows the laws' purpose. Which means they don't love the laws' Creator.
Like a woman who receive a love letter from her lover that she treasures every word in that letter. That she studies the letter trying to know how her lover felt while writing this letter.
God knows who loves Him and those who don't.

This is one of the first commands from God, but it shouldn't be a command. But since we started off being a stranger to Him, we need to be forced to walk with Him for a while in order to know Him to love Him.

And so, it's a process to know the Lord. That's why we must seek Him

Deuteronomy 6:5
Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength.

Like in the movie Beauty and the Beast, she was forced to be with the beast. Fearing the beast in the beginning but at the end she wasn't forced to be with the beast.

This was the best made movie of Beauty and the Beast they ever made. This movie started the trends of others Beauty and the Beast films.


The full movie.

 
I’m linking an article in the current Christian Post that prompts my OP.
https://www.christianpost.com/voices/which-comes-first-in-salvation-order-faith-or-regeneration.html

But to all who received him, who believed in his name, he gave power to become children of God, who were born/gennao, not of blood or of the will of the flesh or of the will of man, but of God. (Joh 1:12-13 NRSVue) *A disciple received and believed because he had been “born of God”, not by man’s will, but by God’s sovereign will.

Jesus answered him, “Very truly, I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God without being born/gennao from above.” (Joh 3:3 NRSVue) *Clearly refers to God above

The wind blows where it chooses, and you hear the sound of it, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born/gennao of the Spirit.” (Joh 3:8 NRSVue) *Being born anew or born from above is as much of the sovereignty of God, as is the wind.

If you perceive that he is righteous, you also know that everyone who does right has been born of him. (1Jn 2:29 NRSVue)
Those who have been born of God do not sin because God’s seed abides in them; they cannot sin because they have been born of God. (1Jn 3:9 NRSVue)
Beloved, let us love one another, because love is from God; everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. (1Jn 4:7 NRSVue)
Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God, and everyone who loves the parent loves the child. (1Jn 5:1 NRSVue)
for whatever is born of God conquers the world. And this is the victory that conquers the world, our faith. (1Jn 5:4 NRSVue)
We know that those who are born of God do not sin, but the one who was born of God protects them, and the evil one does not touch them. (1Jn 5:18 NRSVue)

but God, who is rich in mercy, out of the great love with which he loved us even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— (Eph 2:4-5 NRSVue) *We were dead, not sick, and dead men don’t, can’t believe!

A certain woman named Lydia, a worshiper of God, was listening to us; she was from the city of Thyatira and a dealer in purple cloth. The Lord opened her heart to listen eagerly to what was said by Paul. (Act 16:14 NRSVue) *The Lord ‘opened her heart’, or birthed her anew, so that she listened eagerly.

Sir, why are you a Christian and your neighbor is not? You reply, “Because I believed and he did not believe.” If your faith was the deciding factor, you claim your salvation was not ALL of God, because God in your eyes did the same for every person; it was you who made the difference. You now can boast!

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God— not the result of works, so that no one may boast. (Eph 2:8-9 NRSVue) *Believing is called a work in John 6:29. If a person believing is the deciding factor, he can boast.

In contrast, God is why you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification and redemption, in order that, as it is written, “Let the one who boasts, boast in the Lord.” (1Co 1:30-31 NRSVue)

NOW I ASK YOU, DOES THE ARTICLE IN THE CHRISTIAN POST RING TRUE WHEN COMPARED TO SCRIPTURE?

So glad you question what men put on the internet.

First ALL of HIS word is good but it has to be rightly divided.

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

So many people today leave out the book of Acts for salavation and say Paul preached a different message.

Satan's plan keep them out of the water, if they get in the water keep JESUS name out of it.

Matthew 7:13-14
King James Version
13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

We have HIS word and it's our job to dived the false prophets from true JESUS followers.
 
I was responding from a previous discussion we had about being a slave to the law. That someone who's a slave doesn't knows the laws' purpose. Which means they don't love the laws' Creator.
Like a woman who receive a love letter from her lover that she treasures every word in that letter. That she studies the letter trying to know how her lover felt while writing this letter.
God knows who loves Him and those who don't.

This is one of the first commands from God, but it shouldn't be a command. But since we started off being a stranger to Him, we need to be forced to walk with Him for a while in order to know Him to love Him.

And so, it's a process to know the Lord. That's why we must seek Him

Deuteronomy 6:5
Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength.

Like in the movie Beauty and the Beast, she was forced to be with the beast. Fearing the beast in the beginning but at the end she wasn't forced to be with the beast.
Okay... I think I understand your point, but God never treats believers in Christ like slaves, not even at the beginning of their journey with Him. The relationship between parent and newborn child is a better illustration. It's still not perfect, because believers aren't completely helpless when we first believe, but we do have to renew our minds. Salvation is complete; sanctification is not.
 
Okay... I think I understand your point, but God never treats believers in Christ like slaves, not even at the beginning of their journey with Him. The relationship between parent and newborn child is a better illustration. It's still not perfect, because believers aren't completely helpless when we first believe, but we do have to renew our minds. Salvation is complete; sanctification is not.
A slave is someone that is being made to do something they don't want to do. Like if someone can be tempted into doing something that they're told not to do is a slave because their heart wants to do it, but the laws told them not to do it.
But once they had become unaccustomed to the thing they can be tempted into doing, that their desires have changed from wanting to not wanting, then they're free. That was the purpose of freewill, to show what our hearts desires.
Like the ancient Jews women had to be covered up like some Muslim women of today so they can't tempt the men. Those men were slaves to the laws because arrangements were made to prevent them from being tempted. Like before Adam ate the fruit, he wasn't desiring Eve's naked flesh.

And so, the only way that we will know if our minds are renewed, is when we can't be tempted away from the laws that makes us into sinners when we violate them.
But if they are under grace, they're still sinners that will not be judge by our heart desires, because God placed a veil to cover over their hearts so God will not see their desires.

But to those who been baptized by the Holy spirit, their heart been cleansed from worldly desires. That their food will be only on one thing

Isaiah 45:5
I am the Lord, and there is no other; apart from me there is no God. I will strengthen you, though you have not acknowledged me,

John 15:15
I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master’s business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you.

2 Corinthians 3:15
Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts.

Matthew 5:28
But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.