Well, the God breathed scripture C&P & posted clearly say ISRAEL! You're welcome to add whatever you chose.
144,000: The first resurrection and rapture of the church
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Well, the God breathed scripture C&P & posted clearly say ISRAEL! You're welcome to add whatever you chose.
Quote
""The firstfruits harvest is of all the firstfruits of the Spirit at the High Priest's coming. The main harvest is all the following fruits of His Millenium kingdom"".
You have no understanding OF FIRSTFRUITS.
The RESURRECTION has FIRSTFRUITS.
Jesus is the firstfruits AS THE BIBLE SAYS.
(AS you have a misunderstanding of.)
Pssst....MAIN HARVEST FOLLOWS FIRSTFRUITS.
The 144,000 are firstfruits JEWS, HEBREWS, ISRAELITES. ( whatever ot label you prefer)
IOW, Because you are busted in that doctrine, which I am dismantling, you are now desperately trying to prop it up with strange statements.
The point is, because you can not reconcile that , you post that statement I Quoted which you literally made up.
YOU litterally can not deal wth the facts of the 144,000 .
Nobody says they did.
You indicated Israel had a religion, and judah had another religion.
No, I didn't indicate that. There was a difference, though, between following Moses and following the religion of the Judeans
Psalm1 said:
Paul was of BENJAMIN. AN ISRAELITE.
HE CALLED HIMSELF A JEW.
crftd replied
""Because he lived in Judea and followed the religion of the Judeans""
You saying the "Israelites" had a different religion
They did not follow the Judean religion, pharisaism; they attempted to follow Moses.
Jesus called the pharisees hypocrites. In other words they acted like they followed Moses, but in actuality did not.
Adding another unscriptural narrative?
Tribal Membership: Israel's twelve tribes were based on bloodline descent from Jacob = Israel.
Even after circumcision & full conversion, proselytes were not assigned into a specific tribe. They were considered Israelites in terms of covenant obligations & privileges, but they were given no tribal allotment of land.
Please provide the scripture that support your tribal assignment claim.
Nope - not possible - not as a nation.
[Eze 20:24-25 KJV]
24 Because they had not executed my judgments, but had despised my statutes, and had polluted my sabbaths, and their eyes were after their fathers' idols.
25 Wherefore I gave them also statutes [that were] not good, and judgments whereby they should not live;
[Jer 3:8 KJV] 8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.
[Rom 9:23-25 KJV]
23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.
26 And it shall come to pass, [that] in the place where it was said unto them, Ye [are] not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.
[1Pe 2:9-10 KJV]
9 But ye [are] a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
10 Which in time past [were] not a people, but [are] now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.
He may have called Judeans Jews, but he didn't call Nathaniel a Jew. Or Zacchaeus. Two off the top of my head. Why don't you back up your claim?
They are no longer the nation of God.
[Rom 11:14 KJV] 14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation [them which are] my flesh, and might save some of them.
My comment:
the reason there is much confusion regarding the 144,000 and all prophecy as well, is due to the lack of knowledge from the Old Testament and who the nations are to day and how God performs His will.
Ecclesiastes 1
9 The thing that hath been, it [is that] which shall be; and that which is done [is] that which shall be done: and [there is] no new [thing] under the sun.
10 Is there [any] thing whereof it may be said, See, this [is] new? it hath been already of old time, which was before us.
The nations, all the players in the old Testament did not vanish -- they are here today and they will play the same roles now as then.
What has been -- will be! God uses the same nations, the same families, same methods over and over.
If any believe the physical 12 Tribes of Israel are no more, will find out --- they have been deceived.
the Doctrine of "replacement theology" , is false. the 12 tribes grown into Nations as was foretold, are alive and well today.
the reason there is much confusion regarding the 144,000 and all prophecy as well, is due to the lack of knowledge from the Old Testament and who the nations are to day and how God performs His will.
Ecclesiastes 1
9 The thing that hath been, it [is that] which shall be; and that which is done [is] that which shall be done: and [there is] no new [thing] under the sun.
10 Is there [any] thing whereof it may be said, See, this [is] new? it hath been already of old time, which was before us.
The nations, all the players in the old Testament did not vanish -- they are here today and they will play the same roles now as then.
What has been -- will be! God uses the same nations, the same families, same methods over and over.
If any believe the physical 12 Tribes of Israel are no more, will find out --- they have been deceived.
the Doctrine of "replacement theology" , is false. the 12 tribes grown into Nations as was foretold, are alive and well today.
You are trying to split hairs.
The Bible verse that states "all of Israel will be saved" The full quote, often paired with the following verse, says: "And so all Israel will be saved: as it is written, “The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob” (Romans 11:25b-26
What about the Christians, that Paul threatened "....to also be cut off, as in Israels cutting off".in romans 9-11
Is that Also in need of refraining?
If they are not regrafted back in as a whole, then we can say they were not cut off as a whole. ?
Pure confusion.
What part of those born again are not actually grafted in?
What part of those born again are grafted in?
The "so all Israel will be saved" represents spiritual Israel, not the earthly nation of Israel. All of spiritual Israel will/must become saved.
It means that all who remain in true belief do so as a result of having been saved; those who fall-away were never of the saved - their belief superficial, temporary, not true belief and not from the heart.
[1Pe 1:4-5 KJV]
4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
I don't follow your point. Everyone born-again became/becomes grafted in by God because being born-again is the result of salvation - only those grafted in by God remain so. The unsaved who claim to be Christians, will eventually fall away, that at the end, all who remain were those grafted in by God.
Nope. God made no such promise to regraft in the whole earthly nation of Israel just because He removed the nation and its people as a whole. Those regrafted are those who were chosen by Him individually.
Did you read the verses I included in my prior post? They unequivocally state that it would be impossible for the earthly nation of Israel to regain any standing with God. Instead, it is the true spiritual Church alone that has become the nation and the people of God. They are spiritual Israel - it alone the bride of Christ, and Christ will not have two brides.
[Rev 21:2 KJV] 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
This would be good proof, that not all the children of the tribes in Rev 7 are Jews. However, with the captivity and return, Scripture began to us the all-encompassing word 'Jews', for members of any tribe of Jacob:
Est 3:6
And he thought scorn to lay hands on Mordecai alone; for they had shewed him the people of Mordecai: wherefore Haman sought to destroy all the Jews that were throughout the whole kingdom of Ahasuerus, even the people of Mordecai.
Haman sought to destroy Mordecai of Benjamin, and all his people, the Jews...
Mat 2:2
Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.
Jhn 5:16
And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day.
Jesus was of the tribe of Judah, but was born king of all the tribes of Israel, the Jews. And all the leaders of the tribes persecuting their King were Jews.
Jhn 2:13
And the Jews' passover was at hand, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem,
Jhn 4:22
Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
Jhn 5:1
After this there was a feast of the Jews; and Jesus went up to Jerusalem.
Jhn 19:7
The Jews answered him, We have a law, and by our law he ought to die, because he made himself the Son of God.
Gal 1:13
For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it: And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers.
Gal 2:14
But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?
Rom 3:29
Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
By the time of the gospels and apostles, all the OT law, religion, and national identity of the children of Israel, as opposed to all other nations, was the Jews.