God's design for relationship is arranged marriage, incompatible with modern society

[Cameron143]

Creation, Desecration, Salvation, Glorification.

God's plan in creation was to fill the earth with the knowledge of the glory of the Lord. In this way He would be glorified. If sin had not entered the world, simply having children and teaching them about God would have accomplished this. When sin entered into the world, it became necessary for a spiritual birth for this to be realized. But the only way to fill the earth with the knowledge of the glory of the Lord is if lots of people get saved. And you can't have lots of people without being fruitful and multiplying.

 

[RegisterNow]

Yet marriage is an earthly example of the greater example between Christ and the church. It is unbiblical to say singleness makes hardcore Christians when scripture speaks more about marriage than singleness. Even listing strict marriage guidelines for Elders and deacons.

Marriage is commanded for those who but with passion, but singlesness is only recommended by Paul. Both do carry a gift and it seems most are gifted to marry probably because God loves the human race. Sure singleness can glorify God but a loving marriage can just as much as well.

That "earthly example" talking point is false, there'll be no earthly marriage in the resurrection. The earthly marriage we know today is a sign of the present age, and it was criticized as neglecting the coming judgement.

For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels of God in heaven. (Matt. 22:30)
For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark. (Matt. 24:38)

Paul says one should marry if they burn with passion. He also says one should remain single if they could.

But one thing is certain if the majority were to be single, society would collapse. So marriage and offspring are still very much a fundamental importance and if hardcore Christians do not raise our families, we then have families raised in sin, brokenness, darkness, and evil. One generation of that and you find yourself looking at a culture on the brink of darkness.

The "majority" won't be single, celibacy is a gift only for those who can accept it. The "majority" is also not Christian, the narrow path of righteousness is for the few.

 

[RegisterNow]

Interesting how you chose all females for this list .

Even more interesting is the addition of Hannah..... I'm curious what verse you are using as the basis to assert that she was led astray?

She was led astray when all she desired, all she wanted, all in her mind was a baby, so she can be valued as Peninnah who did have kids. She lost her focus on the Lord, and only did God grant her kids when she restored her focus on the Lord.

 

[RegisterNow]

Well I clearly stated that at heart, the chapter is about the right of ministers of the gospel to partake of donations/wages from the congregation (and Paul's abstinence from the practice). Where I come from that's what we call a summary. But perhaps you have an alternate definition .

But yes, I do agree with you that the central theme of the passage is not about advocating for marriage. It merely mentions (as an aside) that it's fine for ministers of the gospel to be married. The only reason I even mentioned verse 5 is because you were taking some mighty big liberties with the interpretation of "lead about". I felt the need to clarify.

Regarding how verse 5 fits into the chapter, I tend to think Paul was saying that it's not just valid to pay his travel expenses, it would also be valid to pay for those of his wife if he had one. That is merely my opinion though, we can ask Paul directly someday .

I actually agree with you on many points about the subject in general, I just think you are taking it too far.

What has gone too far is this idolatry, worship even exaltation of marriage, so much so that good marriage and large family have become a perceived stereotype of Christians. This might be another radical take, but I tell you, this idolatry, and the false prosperity gospel in general, is the inevitable result of taking sin out of the picture, starting from the Enlightenment. People still believe in God, in Jesus, in the gospel, in salvation, but without sin, what did Jesus die for? From what are we supposed to be saved? We know the answer - shame, illness, injustice, poverty, sadness, in this case, "burning in passion". That's not Paul meant, nor what marriage is for.

 

[Edith]

It's Paul's teaching. Marriage is "cares of the world" that burdens you.

But I want you to be without care. He who is unmarried cares for the things of the Lord—how he may please the Lord. But he who is married cares about the things of the world—how he may please his wife. There is a difference between a wife and a virgin. The unmarried woman cares about the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and in spirit. But she who is married cares about the things of the world—how she may please her husband. And this I say for your own profit, not that I may put a leash on you, but for what is proper, and that you may serve the Lord without distraction. (1 Cor. 7:32-35)

Hey,
unlike the Qur'an and other books the Bible is a story (prose) with a big idea. taking out passages without taking in account the big idea of the chapter and how it relates to the whole book, is the problem. I am not well today but if I have time I will read to explain better the passage

 

[Ouch]

Thanks. Sorry I can't relate, I have no desire for any girl, nor do I know anyone personally. All that I'm saying is that marriage is a worldly pursuit, real hardcore Christians should stay single. After all, Jesus was single, Paul was single, most OT prophets and disciples were single.

GOD wants us to worship HIM and I agree HE want's us all to HIMSELF so being single is the best way.

Just you and HIM total submission, one reason the leaders of the catholic church no one gets married.

I like the rule, but not sure if you see some problems they are having with some of their leaders?

GOD would us rather marry then sin.

He would rather share us with a wife then sin and burn in Hell.

1 Corinthians 7:8-9
King James Version
8 I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, it is good for them if they abide even as I.

9 But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn.

 

[Lynx]

That is the Sadducee's theology. They didn't believe in resurrection because they (mis)interpretted it as having kids, they viewed kids as continuation of their own lives, which is natural and common. if you hold onto this natalism view, you'd make the same mistake they did.

No... I didn't say CHRISTIAN duty. I said PATRIOTIC duty. Do not conflate the two. If you call him a sadducee, you automatically assume he is making it a religious thing, like your religious thing about being single.

 

[Lynx]

That "earthly example" talking point is false, there'll be no earthly marriage in the resurrection. The earthly marriage we know today is a sign of the present age, and it was criticized as neglecting the coming judgement.

For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels of God in heaven. (Matt. 22:30)
For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark. (Matt. 24:38)



The "majority" won't be single, celibacy is a gift only for those who can accept it. The "majority" is also not Christian, the narrow path of righteousness is for the few.

You know none of this is new to us, right?

We have seen this argument (and the ones about our duty to make lots of kids... we get blasted from both sides regularly) over and over and over. You can almost set your calendar by it. "Hmm, it's been a good 1.6 months since the last wannabe preacher came through and told us how to live our lives. I can feel it in the air - we're about to get somebody coming through here saying REAL christians should all be single."

It's almost like a well rehearsed dance. You put out this verse, Dino puts out that verse, you put out the other verse, Eli comes back with some more verses. We know all the moves in this dance by now.

We also know how it will end. But I'm not going to spoil it for you.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

That "earthly example" talking point is false, there'll be no earthly marriage in the resurrection. The earthly marriage we know today is a sign of the present age, and it was criticized as neglecting the coming judgement.

For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels of God in heaven. (Matt. 22:30)
For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark. (Matt. 24:38)



The "majority" won't be single, celibacy is a gift only for those who can accept it. The "majority" is also not Christian, the narrow path of righteousness is for the few.

Ephesians 5 explains how earthly marriage should reflect the relationship between Christ and the church.

“Marriage, as instituted by God, serves as a profound symbol of the relationship between Christ and His Church. This sacred union is not merely a social contract but a divine covenant that mirrors the spiritual and eternal bond between the Savior and His redeemed people.”

https://biblehub.com/topical/m/marriage_as_a_reflection_of_christ_and_the_church.htm

 

[Snackersmom]

She was led astray when all she desired, all she wanted, all in her mind was a baby, so she can be valued as Peninnah who did have kids. She lost her focus on the Lord, and only did God grant her kids when she restored her focus on the Lord.

Still no verses to back up that assertion about Hannah? Interesting.

Also interesting how you didn't mention EVEN ONE biblical male who was led astray by a desire for baby-making.

Somehow you even manage to argue with people who somewhat agree with you. I get that you're not here to do any actual iron-sharpening but this is next-level.

You clearly don't have the right temperament for spiritual leadership, so kudos to you for recognizing that fact and staying single.

 

[Lynx]

Harsh. Very harsh...

But...

Fair. Under the "don't start nothing, there won't be nothing" convention rules, very fair.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

What has gone too far is this idolatry, worship even exaltation of marriage, so much so that good marriage and large family have become a perceived stereotype of Christians. This might be another radical take, but I tell you, this idolatry, and the false prosperity gospel in general, is the inevitable result of taking sin out of the picture, starting from the Enlightenment. People still believe in God, in Jesus, in the gospel, in salvation, but without sin, what did Jesus die for? From what are we supposed to be saved? We know the answer - shame, illness, injustice, poverty, sadness, in this case, "burning in passion". That's not Paul meant, nor what marriage is for.

What do you believe marriage is for?

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

GOD would us rather marry then sin.
.

Umm ok, but the vast majority of people don't get married because they can't keep themselves from humping the opposite sex. Sorry if that sounds harsh. God's plan is for people to marry and have children. Not everyone will do either in their life time but it was not God's plan for everyone to remain single. Either way too far and you're out of God's will.

 

[seoulsearch]

Thanks. Sorry I can't relate, I have no desire for any girl, nor do I know anyone personally. All that I'm saying is that marriage is a worldly pursuit, real hardcore Christians should stay single. After all, Jesus was single, Paul was single, most OT prophets and disciples were single.

I'm just curious, does the highlighted sentence above mean that you don't know personally know any girls? If so, how old are you and what are the life circumstances that prevent you from knowing any women at work, church, school, etc?
Or did you mean you don't know anyone personally who is looking for a woman to marry?

I am curious as to why you didn't answer my questions in Post #10.

But I also realize you're getting a flood of replies, so maybe you didn't see them -- and I know it can be a juggling act trying to keep up with several replies at once.

If you say marriage is strictly worldly, what is your viewpoint regarding the fact that the Bible teaches that Jesus, while single on earth, will one day be joined with His own bride (the Bride of Christ, meaning, us, the church)?

Revelation 19:7-9 -- "Let us rejoice and be glad and give Him glory! For the marriage of the Lamb is come, and His bride has made herself ready."

I would be very interested in hearing your thoughts about this.

 

[Snackersmom]

Harsh. Very harsh...

But...

Fair. Under the "don't start nothing, there won't be nothing" convention rules, very fair.

I'm not even trying to be harsh, I'm trying to be realistic. His profile claims that he is a small group leader, yet his posts here lack a basic understanding of how a spiritual leader should conduct themselves. No empathy, no ability to listen, no recognition of a diversity of callings (Which is VITAL to a healthy church body).... he's not spiritually equipped to be leading ANYONE, let alone a wife.

I won't even address his incredibly loose interpretation of cherry-picked verses, because it could be a language barrier issue so I won't pick on that.

 

[Ouch]

Umm ok, but the vast majority of people don't get married because they can't keep themselves from humping the opposite sex. Sorry if that sounds harsh. God's plan is for people to marry and have children. Not everyone will do either in their life time but it was not God's plan for everyone to remain single. Either way too far and you're out of God's will.

Of course we need off spring and HE build our bodies for that.

What do you think of HIS word?

1 Corinthians 7:8-9
King James Version
8 I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, it is good for them if they abide even as I.

9 But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn.

 

[Gideon300]

For the record, I never "forbid to marry". Marriage in theory is a blessing from God, but in practice, it's only as good as the characters of the couple, it's not a magic fix as advertised, it cannot transform an ungodly person to godly overnight. The bible is full of dysfunctional marriages, Esau's marriage with Hittite woman was condemned, David's with Bathsheba was condemned, Ahab's with Jezebel was condemned, the Pharisees' frequent divorces and marriages were condemned.

I don't know how old you are, how you met your spouse and what kind of marriage journey you have been through, but the modern "capstone" model in the West has certainly deviated from what God designed, because by no means is modern dating sanctified by God. It's not up to the individual as much as the first marriage was not up to Adam. It was God who made a comparable partner for him and brought her to him.

God's will is for man to marry. It's still not good for man to be alone. Dating is what it is. Arranged marriages won't fly in the West. The biggest problem is the utterly unrealistic expectations many people, especially women, have of marriage. Christians should be seeking a spouse who is also Christian. How they go about that is their own business.

Marriage is hard. And that is a good thing. It exposes attitudes that would otherwise be hidden. And God's intent is that we should seek to be set free from those attitudes.

I'm 74. I've seen the best and the worst of marriage. I separated from my ex-wife in 1995. I married my present wife 3 years ago. I've been single a lot longer than I've been married. I'm by nature a loner. Being single was easy for me. God saved us to be a body, not an isolated and disconnected "limb". Now I am married and I would not have it any other way. As an aside, I first met my now wife about 40 years ago. I tell people that you can't rush into these things. It's a joke.

You seem to forget that God chose Solomon, Bathsheba's son, to be the king after David's death. And there are vast numbers of marriages that God had nothing to say about.

I don't know why you feel the need to criticise something instituted and blessed by God. If you don't want to marry, fine. That's your choice. Not everyone thinks as you do.

 

[Gideon300]

Of course we need off spring and HE build our bodies for that.

What do you think of HIS word?

1 Corinthians 7:8-9
King James Version
8 I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, it is good for them if they abide even as I.

9 But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn.

Verse 26, "In view of the present distress..........." Paul's advice was based on the issues facing the Corinthians at the time. It's not a blanket rejection of marriage as such.

 

[pinebeach]

If only we had had these truths 2000 yrs ago. Paul would not have had to give any advice on marriage, there would not have been a comparison to Jesus and His body/ marriage, men would no longer lust and women? well they could have just done gardening or something. and housecleaning. prob cooking. but at least no diapers

 

[Gideon300]

If only we had had these truths 2000 yrs ago. Paul would not have had to give any advice on marriage, there would not have been a comparison to Jesus and His body/ marriage, men would no longer lust and women? well they could have just done gardening or something. and housecleaning. prob cooking. but at least no diapers

If everyone had taken Paul's advice there would be no humans left!