Good discussion, Everyone. It was an interesting read.
God's design for relationship is arranged marriage, incompatible with modern society
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1 Cor. 9:5 is talking about spiritual leadership in general - "LEAD ABOUT a sister, a wife as well as other apostles", it is not just Paul and Barnabas's job. It has nothing to do with marriage, and it shouldn't be taken as historical proof of any apostle's marital status. Paul is not a hypocrite, his teaching on marriage is clear: remain where you are. " Are you bound to a wife? Do not seek to be loosed. Are you loosed from a wife? Do not seek a wife." If you're baptized as married, you remain married; if single, you remain single.
Oh come now friends and join me...
He who finds a wife, finds a good thing. If she's contentious, you might be better off in the corner on your roof. It won't last...
She might put that dress on that you like, and give you that look... or she might just give you that look...
"He who finds a wife, finds a good thing" is deception by omission. Only is it a good thing when she (or he, from the lady's perspective) is "comparable" to you, according to God's original design. If you just date a random stranger you feel attracted to, you're following Esau's example, and that'd be a bad thing. Same for Ahab and Jezebel.
When Esau was forty years old, he took as wives Judith the daughter of Beeri the Hittite, and Basemath the daughter of Elon the Hittite. And they were a grief of mind to Isaac and Rebekah. (Gen. 26:34-35)
That is the Sadducee's theology. They didn't believe in resurrection because they (mis)interpretted it as having kids, they viewed kids as continuation of their own lives, which is natural and common. if you hold onto this natalism view, you'd make the same mistake they did.
It's Paul's teaching. Marriage is "cares of the world" that burdens you.
But I want you to be without care. He who is unmarried cares for the things of the Lord—how he may please the Lord. But he who is married cares about the things of the world—how he may please his wife. There is a difference between a wife and a virgin. The unmarried woman cares about the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and in spirit. But she who is married cares about the things of the world—how she may please her husband. And this I say for your own profit, not that I may put a leash on you, but for what is proper, and that you may serve the Lord without distraction. (1 Cor. 7:32-35)
Marriage is God's general will for most people, including Christians. Children born to Christian parents have a better change to to heart the gospel than people in the world. Marriage is the antidote to lust. Sex was introduced before Adam's fall. it is not inherently evil. It is a natural desire that God approves of.
Paul also said that forbidding marriage was evil (1 Timothy 4:3). I notice that you did not quote verse 26, which explain Paul's reasoning: "26 Because of the present crisis, I think it is good for a man to remain as he is." It is not a blanket restriction on marriage. He goes onto say that marrying is not a sin.
If people can handle being single, fine. I was single for about 25 years. I'm 74 and I've been married for 3 years. I am greatly blessed. It also helps with ministry. I don't have to worry about being alone with a single woman. My wife is always with me if we are counseling someone.
Hi Register, you are certainty entitled to your opinion and you are making an excellent case as to why you, personally, should stay single. 100% support you in that decision.
However, it takes some pretty sketchy scriptural gymnastics to say that 1 Corinthians 9 has nothing to do with wives or marriage. At heart it is about the propriety of ministers receiving wages or donations for their labor in the Gospel (and Paul's refusal to take part in such).
But when Paul argues that he and Barnabus have the "right" to "periagō" (lead about) a sister/wife, it is an action phrase that implies traveling with as a companion. If you check the other 5 times the word "periagō" was used in the NT, every single one implies physically moving from one place to another, NOT spiritual leadership.
I find it hard to believe Paul was advocating traveling about with another man's wife. Just sayin....
And no I'm not saying that verse is proof that Paul got married. He is saying he has the RIGHT to travel with a believing wife, not that he DOES travel with one. So as far as I know he did stay single.
We're most definitely in a present crisis. I've explained that modern society, epsecially crowded and busy urban lifestyle is incompatible with God's original design for marriage.
The conundrum and practical challenge we're facing today is that while marriage is biblical and God-ordained, dating is neither biblical nor God-ordained. God's design for marriage is the "cornorstone" model, yet the norm in modern day is the"capstone" model, you can't get married without dating. God created Eve, a comparable helper for Adam, but he didn't create anybody for you, what do you do then? "Better get married than burn in passion" was written in the cultural context where arranged marriage at a young age was the norm, that doesn't exist anymore. Preaching marriage and the sanctity thereof without taking these into consideration is false prosperity gospel, that's what I'm debunking.
With those twisting skills you should take up pretzel making. Or maybe rope making.
Anyway to back up my assertion (and multiple bible translations) that the word there indicates travelling rather than teaching or authority:
Forbidding to marry is evil. The world is bad but not so bad that people should avoid marrying and having children. Some people know to trust God with their lives.
Arranged marriage is common in the Muslim world. Women are treated like dirt. 12 year olds are married off to middle aged men. I don't see that as a better model than what we have now in the West.
Children are a blessing from the Lord. It would be far better for people to be taught the elementary principles of a good relationship and parenting. Good relationships are a tremendous witness to the world that struggles to hold families together. So I disagree with you. Maybe in places like North Korea your idea holds good. Otherwise, it's up to the individual.
Please summarize the whole chapter 9 first and fit 9:5 into that summary, not the other way around. If it has anything to do with wives or marriage, it's just a mere mention of married couples, the same rule of "remain where you are” still stands. This is neither a calling nor a guidance for singles to get married, not is it a proof of any apostle's marital status, again. All it shows is that Paul, Barnabas and Peter/Cephas were at the time in spiritual leadership.
Actually, the Bible begins in a garden and ends in a city. Man was always meant to progress. There is nothing happening today that hinders marriage and family. The command to be fruitful and multiply was never rescinded.
For the record, I never "forbid to marry". Marriage in theory is a blessing from God, but in practice, it's only as good as the characters of the couple, it's not a magic fix as advertised, it cannot transform an ungodly person to godly overnight. The bible is full of dysfunctional marriages, Esau's marriage with Hittite woman was condemned, David's with Bathsheba was condemned, Ahab's with Jezebel was condemned, the Pharisees' frequent divorces and marriages were condemned.
I don't know how old you are, how you met your spouse and what kind of marriage journey you have been through, but the modern "capstone" model in the West has certainly deviated from what God designed, because by no means is modern dating sanctified by God. It's not up to the individual as much as the first marriage was not up to Adam. It was God who made a comparable partner for him and brought her to him.
That was not a command, and it was not written for Christians specifically - were Adam and Eve the ancestors of all mankind, or only born again Christians? Were Noah and his three sons the ancestors of all mankind, or only born again Christians?
If you let the bible interpret itself, the read command is the Great Commission, Lord Jesus's parting words - "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." We're commanded to make disciples, not babies. If you're obsessed with baby making, you'd be led astray like Sarah, Rachel, Hannah and Lot's daughters.
Context, please. One word's separate meaning is irrelevant, it must fit the context, and the said context is about apostleship in multiple translations: Paul’s Rights as an Apostle (NIV), A Pattern of Self-Denial (NKJV), Paul’s Use of Freedom (NASB). I didn't come up with any of these titles, I trust the translators who did.
You asked someone to summarize a chapter earlier. How would you summarize the Bible?
Yet marriage is an earthly example of the greater example between Christ and the church. It is unbiblical to say singleness makes hardcore Christians when scripture speaks more about marriage than singleness. Even listing strict marriage guidelines for Elders and deacons.
Marriage is commanded for those who but with passion, but singlesness is only recommended by Paul. Both do carry a gift and it seems most are gifted to marry probably because God loves the human race. Sure singleness can glorify God but a loving marriage can just as much as well.
Paul says one should marry if they burn with passion. He also says one should remain single if they could.
But one thing is certain if the majority were to be single, society would collapse. So marriage and offspring are still very much a fundamental importance and if hardcore Christians do not raise our families, we then have families raised in sin, brokenness, darkness, and evil. One generation of that and you find yourself looking at a culture on the brink of darkness.
Well I clearly stated that at heart, the chapter is about the right of ministers of the gospel to partake of donations/wages from the congregation (and Paul's abstinence from the practice). Where I come from that's what we call a summary. But perhaps you have an alternate definition
.But yes, I do agree with you that the central theme of the passage is not about advocating for marriage. It merely mentions (as an aside) that it's fine for ministers of the gospel to be married. The only reason I even mentioned verse 5 is because you were taking some mighty big liberties with the interpretation of "lead about". I felt the need to clarify.
Regarding how verse 5 fits into the chapter, I tend to think Paul was saying that it's not just valid to pay his travel expenses, it would also be valid to pay for those of his wife if he had one. That is merely my opinion though, we can ask Paul directly someday
.I actually agree with you on many points about the subject in general, I just think you are taking it too far.
Interesting how you chose all females for this list
. Even more interesting is the addition of Hannah..... I'm curious what verse you are using as the basis to assert that she was led astray?
