You lied about something and are being called out on it. Stop calling it something else.
You pretend to defend the faith by attacking me. You are disgusting.
Can We Really Exercise Free Will?
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You pretend to defend the faith by attacking me. You are disgusting.
You try to make it about some dead guy you love to hate and lie about, when it is really about whatGood question...
If Calvinism is true, why does it matter if salvation is by faith, or work… it’s actually by election
A works based chosen one is just as saved as a faith alone believer.
Scripture teaches, which you reject. You have the art of misdirection down, now work on honesty.
Romans 8 verse 29-30; Ephesians 1 verse 5 ~ Those God foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers. And those He predestined, He also called; those He called, He also justified; those He justified, He also glorified. He predestined us for adoption as His sons through Jesus Christ, according to the good pleasure of His will.
You should have just said you were wrong. The truth is, we may not understand how God is glorified in any singular event because we don't have omniscience. God, however, does. And He knows how all events are rightly viewed. And in all things He is glorified. This may offend our sensibilities, but it doesn't detract from the glory of God.Since to glorify God is...... to make Him known for who He is, then the so called "doctrines of grace" has a huge problem since it does not portray God for who He really is, as shown in scripture.
I mean it is "doctrines of grace" (so called) adherents who affirm that a 10 year old girl who was raped, tortured for hours and then strangled received her righteous judgement from God she had earned.
Yes that makes God known for who He really is.
Calvinist Bible:
"Who then can be saved?"
(Mat 19:25) Jesus answered, "Only the elect."
Christian Bible:
"Who then can be saved?"
(Mat 19:25) Jesus answered, "... with God all things are possible.”
Amen!!
Another misdirection from you.
Who then can be saved?
You left out that Jesus said, with man it is impossible.
Oh, yes, we know why you did that. Your view contradicts Jesus.
Of course, we know your view contradicts Jesus in a great many places.
But you don't care about contradicting Jesus as long as you can uphold your delusion of free will.
Great is the mystery of Godliness... of course you free willers love to deny that thereIs this what we call appeal to mystery?
is any, you say the gospel is not a spiritual matter nor is it a deep thing of God.
You strip the Truth of truth.
Do you think your understanding matches God's? To deny mystery is to place oneself equal to God. Great is the mystery of godliness...1 Timothy 3:16.Is this what we call appeal to mystery?
She contradicts and denies what is explicitly articulated and rewrites the verses she does not like.
So the only honest answer for her is no.
She also calls plain readings of Scripture "eisegesis" and names corroborating parallel verses as being "out of context."
You said to another poster they conflate choice with free will, maybe I missed it so I apologize but what do you see as the distinctions between the two? Thank you..
Oh there is mystery just not doctrines of grace (so called) mystery.
I am not the one whose "doctrines of grace" aka "super determinism" leads to the inexcusable assertion that a 10 year old girl received her righteous judgement from God she had earned.
Welcome! The answer is in what Scripture says of man, not what man says of himself or what philosophy teaches.
Here the discussion revolves around what Scripture says of the natural man being a slave to sin and lover of darkness refusing to come into the light as a God-hater taken captive to do the will of the devil, opposed to the spiritual things of God, which he can neither receive nor comprehend, but yet we have many here contradicting and denying what Scripture says of the natural man. They claim the man of flesh, flesh within which nothing good exists, which serves the law of sin and brings forth fruit unto death, will decide with his incurably wicked heart to believe what he hears as foolishness. They are not above rewriting verses to make them say what they want even if it is Jesus' words they are butchering. In short, they have put a philosophical construct before the Truth explicitly articulated in Scripture. They ascribe to the natural man qualities, characteristics, and abilities that are true only of the spiritual man, and then to prop up this error, pretend the natural man is a carnal Christian and not the man who is not indwelt with the Holy Spirit of God.
Part of the problem is that people think that making choices equates to the will being free. They say such things as, if the will is not free, then people are puppets. This is a logical fallacy. Making mundane choices does not in any way address what the Bible teaches about man's will being enslaved to sin, blinded to the truth, unable to hear, incapable of submitting to God, a lover of darkness, refusing to come into the light, hearing the gospel as foolishness, unable to receive or comprehend the spiritual things of God, to which he is opposed and to Whom he is hostile toward while under the power and influence of the devil, as is the whole world, out of which believers have been called. Thinking your will is free simply because you can choose what colour of socks to wear or what to have for lunch, or whether to do the right or wrong things, or what book to choose out of the mountains of them available, has no bearing on the eternal fate of your soul, and mixing those things in with what the Bible teaches about the estate of fallen man is a distraction from the real issue.
This is the crux of the conversation, such as it is, for it is out of man's nature that he makes choices, and it is with the heart that one believes... the free will proponents essentially assert that the incurably wicked heart of the natural/unregenerated man is free to choose to believe that which he is not only opposed to, but that which he can neither receive/accept nor comprehend while in the flesh as are all before becoming indwelt with the Holy Spirit of God. They have the man with zero wisdom acting wise to do God's will when Scripture says that man cannot, that flesh cannot please God, that flesh serves the law of sin and brings forth fruit unto death, not life, and is unable to submit to or obey God. And their idea of wisdom is that person choosing to believe what they hear as foolishness. They reject what Jesus said about it being impossible for a bad tree to bring forth good fruit... there are none good, no, not one! Even when asked who can be saved, Jesus said that with man it was impossible, and there are other places where we are explicitly told it is not by the will of the flesh or man but by God's will that any are saved. Some philosophers and philosophy books have said man has a will that is free and that is enough for many to parrot what they hear and throw over a slew of Scriptural truths. They ascribe to the natural man qualities, characteristics, and abilities possessed only by the spiritual man.
Still belly aching about what some old dead guy said?
I guess anything will do to take the focus off of your blasphemies against God.
Your stance of free will leads you to agree with God being a rapist. Disgusting.
In Christianity,:
1) God desires all to be saved. Calvinism denies this.
2) God tempts no one. Calvinism collapses temptation and decree.
3) God does not conceive evil.
Divine determinism leads to the logical conclusion that God decrees all evil acts
4) The gospel is offered to all. Calvinism denies that the offer is genuine for the non-elect.
5) Christ died for all.
Calvinism restricts atonement to the elect. Choosing some people for eternal life and others for damnation purely by decree, sending Christ to die only for the subset He already chose, - and calling this goodness ... this is a different being than the God described by Scripture and universally confessed prior to the Reformation.
In summary, the "doctrines of grace" has its own form of gnosis, a claim that they understand scripture in a way that others do not.
1) God desires all to be saved. Calvinism denies this.
2) God tempts no one. Calvinism collapses temptation and decree.
3) God does not conceive evil.
Divine determinism leads to the logical conclusion that God decrees all evil acts
4) The gospel is offered to all. Calvinism denies that the offer is genuine for the non-elect.
5) Christ died for all.
Calvinism restricts atonement to the elect. Choosing some people for eternal life and others for damnation purely by decree, sending Christ to die only for the subset He already chose, - and calling this goodness ... this is a different being than the God described by Scripture and universally confessed prior to the Reformation.
In summary, the "doctrines of grace" has its own form of gnosis, a claim that they understand scripture in a way that others do not.
