My understanding from scripture is that Jesus IS divine and Creator. Jesus' existence as a human being had a beginning , and that human being called Jesus of Nazareth was partially created, although His person and Spirit pre-existed His human existence. His Person and Spirit has been ever-existing.
Please help me to understand
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and you were not crucified either and had your side speared. You were not lid dead in a tomb for three days. Your human reasoning is substandard to what Jesus said I have the POWER to take it up again
John 10:18
"No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself (singular). I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father.”
"Power" from the Greek is exousia means:
power of choice, liberty of doing as one pleases, : the ability or strength with which one is endued, which he either possesses or exercises
Idol worshiping is never a good sign of anyone who falsely claim to be 'christians'
1 Corinthians 8:1
1Now concerning things offered to idols: We know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffs up, but love edifies.
2And if anyone thinks that he knows anything, he knows nothing yet as he ought to know.
3But if anyone loves God, this one is known by Him.
4Therefore concerning the eating of things offered to idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is no other God but one.
5For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as there are many gods and many lords),
6yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; AND one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.
7However, there is not in everyone that knowledge; for some, with consciousness of the idol, until now eat it as a thing offered to an idol; and their conscience, being weak, is defiled.
witness...
John 16:27
27For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I[Jesus] came out from God.
28I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.
>>>> There is NO! Holy scriptures stating God came out of the Christ.
1 Corinthians 11:3
But I want you to know that the head of every man is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.
>>>> And now the finale :
Ephesians 1:17
that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him,
And there it is, ***Proof Jesus has a GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
OH.... you want more you ask ....
1 Peter 1:3
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
Ephesians 1:3
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly realms.
2 Corinthians 1:3
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of compassion and the God of all comfort,
These verse were written long after Jesus is raised from the dead, raised in Spirit and restored back to his former glory.
mic drop ........
What is logically or scripturally implausible with this following understanding of the relationship between Jesus Christ and God
Firstly, we know of corporate entities consisting of several in charge persons (such as a parliamentary government or a triumvirate or a joint-owned company). The managing body (the coalition caucus, the triumvirate itself or the board) is called its "head" . Individual members of the governing body they are a member of may speak for the body, and make pronouncements for the body. Individual members of the governing body may be commissioned by the body to perform some action.
An individual from within the body may say either, "The Board requires that such and such be done." Or maybe ,"My instruction is that such and such must be done. When a member says, "I instruct ..." or "My instruction is...." he is not thereby claiming or implying that he is the only person running the show. When a different person on the board says "I require that such and such be done," he is not thereby denying the equal authority of the first member. But both members orders must be with the approval of the board to be valid.
There are several divine Persons in the Godhead running the universe. When One speaks, He speaks for All with the approval of All. The fact that it is the Son speaking commanding His will in His own name ("This is what I command...") does not logically imply He is claiming to be the only person in command. The fact that the Son speaks in the name of the entire Godhead ("This is what Yahweh says...") does not imply that Yahweh must be only one Person in Yahweh.
Unlike any other "board" the divine Persons in "Yahweh" have a unique degree of perfect unity of purpose and knowledge, so that they act in unison and agree unanimously, as if they were one person conversing with himself and making decisions. Wanting to convey this perfect unity, not being a board who argues and debates with internal power struggles and political manoeuvring, Yahweh refers to Yahweh using the words: I, We, My and Mine.
Secondly, we refer to the one who generates something are the father of it. Yahweh is the generator of all things, through the Word commanding what Yahweh willed, and the Holy Spirit shaping what came into existence at the Word's command. So, in one sense the Son is the everlasting Father of the things He speaks into existence. and in another sense Yahweh is the everlasting Father of all things Yahweh agrees that the Word should speak into existence. There may also be a third Person in Yahweh who is designated within Yahweh for a role that is more fatherly, the chairman of the board, voted in by the rest of the board, who is referred to sometimes as the Father. Since we have at least three possible referents to "the Father" in scripture, in reference to deity, we should be free to determine which one is meant when it is used in a particular place in scripture, based on logic and context and Holy Spirit illumination.
If we study your scriptures in the light of my explanation here, they do not prove what you are reading into them based on your rather limited acknowledgement of the nuances of language as it is actually used in real life.
exousia also has the sense of authority. If I surrender my passport to a foreign embassy to have them approve a visa to visit their country, and they send me an email to come and pick it up, or an email telling me it will arrive in the next week, I have received authority to receive it back again.
Jesus was told that if He laid His life/soul/psuchE down, Yahweh would return it to Him. That IMO is why Jesus said "I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to receive it back."
If you cannot respond relevantly here in writing when you have time to frame a clear response, it is unlikely you will be able respond coherently of the cuff in a live conversation.wrong
This is the speed bum you guys keep going over and over again to no avail.
God describes the nature of the relationship between spirits, all many members ONE Spiritual body.
It is an OCEAN that transverse the know and unknown universe.
You have but a mere glass of ocean water and think(believe) in your limited way, that is all that the Spirit encompasses, well your wrong.
God Spirit is no t an entity, God created entities.
God Spirit is not a parliamentary government, God governs ALL.
God Spirit is not joint-owned company, ALL GLORY is God's.
It is all DIVINE because it is all Spiritual.
This is why any person evil can be saved, not their physical body but the unstained spirit within that reutns to the Divine Spirit of ALL, God Spirit..
PaulThomson, post: we refer to the one who generates something are the father of it. Yahweh is the generator of all things, through the Word commanding what Yahweh willed, and the Holy Spirit shaping what came into existence at the Word's command.
OK , Now just drop all the inclinations of carnal man and you will DISCERN in Spirit.
This is exactly what you just describe :
Genesis 1:3
Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light.
God = Then God said
The Son = “Let there be light”
The Holy Spirit = and there was light.
Now try this one :
Genesis 1:1
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
-----------------------------------------------
And then you trip over your own tongue again. With this malarkey :
"we should be free to determine which one is meant when it is used in a particular place in scripture, based on logic and context and Holy Spirit illumination."
Nope , not getting anywhere near DISCERNING in Spirit, with that carnal attitude.
God Spirit guides are steps in determining, this is in Scriptures. And you teach "we SHOULD be free to determine"
There is NOT ONE scriptures that teaches the use of 'context" did you ever, EVER let that sink into carnal thought s!?!
You should/must read the definition of "context" you may learn something important, dare I say.
Any ways, like the dancing in circles you guys are all doing. Knowing God has you in this manner gives others Hope in Spirit.
LOL that is ridicules the context is not the same as one surrendering their passport. Where do you get this liberal theology from? That is not even a stretch of the context it is complete abandonment. Learn proper Hermeneutics guy. Expository ok, start with the text, stay with the text, end with the text. Jesus SAID, "I Have."
It was given to him (past tense) by the Father. You wrote some out of context baggage claim type theology and reduced the Authority of Christ to a passport. Nothing could be further from the truth.
most people who don't want to speak face to face say that. Yet many more articulate than you have done so,
I have spoken to you very clearly. If you are English teacher, you lack the ability to know what context is in regard to the Word of GOD.
He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God. -- Dan 3:25 ESV
No Christian is an island with private interpretation.
If you are disconnected from the body of Christ you WILL BE MISLEAD.
Your soul sleep error is an example
Paul described the body of Christ with diverse ministry, gifts, and purpose.
Remove a foot and the body of Christ operates on crutches.
We need each other, and God Himself set it up that way.
It seems you think you are "enlightened" past any other believer, in that you can not be tested or imposed upon to be a part of an affiliation/ denomination.
I have been involved in churches since becoming a disciple 43 years ago: Pentecostal, Baptist, Reformed Orthodox, Nazarene, Brethren, Assemblies of God, Delhi Bible Fellowship, Chhattarpur Assemblies of God, Celebration Church. You asked if I am affiliated to any church, taiming to pigeon hole my "heresies" and dosmiss my understanding of scripture by categorising me as captured by some group.
You could try just dealing with what people say, instead of your game of moralistic argument, where you try to classify the person who disagrees with you as a bad person whose words don't deserve to be even considered.
When you say Jesus was "created in the womb"....that invokes suspicion of a cult.
The point is, if you are isolated from the body, you WILL BE MISLEAD.
A "created Jesus" is wording most any believer would question what group is saying this.
Technically birds of a feather flock to together.
I want to know WHO I am addressing.
And if you alone have "revelation " then I can see it is most likely not of God.