Is it wrong to use only LOGIC, not scripture, when arguing theology with an atheist who wants to avoid scripture?
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According to scripture atheists are fools:
Psa 53:1 NKJV - 1 To the Chief Musician. Set to "Mahalath." A Contemplation of David. The fool has said in his heart, "[There is] no God." They are corrupt, and have done abominable iniquity; [There is] none who does good.
Atheists are isolators,
Paul quoted scripture when preaching to isolators.
Act 17:21-31 KJV - 21 (For all the Athenians and strangers which were there spent their time in nothing else, but either to tell, or to hear some new thing.) 22 Then Paul stood in the midst of Mars' hill, and said, [Ye] men of Athens, I perceive that in all things ye are too superstitious. 23 For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you. 24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands; 25 Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things; 26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation; 27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us: 28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring. 29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device. 30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: 31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by [that] man whom he hath ordained; [whereof] he hath given assurance unto all [men], in that he hath raised him from the dead.
Luk 16:31 KJV - 31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
I agree that many atheists seem immune to logic, so Bible-based apologetics may be better applied as a preventative
inoculation of our kids.
The Word of God states otherwise...
Proverbs 16:9
A man’s heart plans his way, But the LORD directs his steps.
Jeremiah 10:23
I know, O LORD, that a man’s way is not his own; no one who walks directs his own steps.
Psalm 37:23-24
The steps of a man are ordered by the LORD who takes delight in his journey. / Though he falls, he will not be overwhelmed, for the LORD is holding his hand.
James 4:13-15
Come now, you who say, “Today or tomorrow we will go to this or that city, spend a year there, carry on business, and make a profit.” / You do not even know what will happen tomorrow! What is your life? You are a mist that appears for a little while and then vanishes. / Instead, you ought to say, “If the Lord is willing, we will live and do this or that.”
Ephesians 1:11
In Him we were also chosen as God’s own, having been predestined according to the plan of Him who works out everything by the counsel of His will,
Matthew 6:10
Your kingdom come, Your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven.
Philippians 2:13
For it is God who works in you to will and to act on behalf of His good purpose.
God makes them stupid and foolish.....
Romans 11
Just as it is written: “God has given them a spirit of stupor, Eyes that they should not see And ears that they should not hear, To this very day.”
witness...
2 Thessalonians 2:11-12
For this reason God will send them a powerful delusion so that they believe the lie, / in order that judgment may come upon all who have disbelieved the truth and delighted in wickedness.
John 12:39-40
For this reason they were unable to believe. For again, Isaiah says: / “He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts, so that they cannot see with their eyes, and understand with their hearts, and turn, and I would heal them.”
Isaiah 29:10
For the LORD has poured out on you a spirit of deep sleep. He has shut your eyes, O prophets; He has covered your heads, O seers.
Deuteronomy 29:4
Yet to this day the LORD has not given you a mind to understand, eyes to see, or ears to hear.
Matthew 13:14-15
In them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled: ‘You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving. / For this people’s heart has grown callous; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts, and turn, and I would heal them.’
Isaiah 6:9-10
And He replied: “Go and tell this people, ‘Be ever hearing, but never understanding; be ever seeing, but never perceiving.’ / Make the hearts of this people calloused; deafen their ears and close their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts, and turn and be healed.”
Acts 28:26-27
‘Go to this people and say, “You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.” / For this people’s heart has grown callous; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts, and turn, and I would heal them.’
2 Corinthians 3:14-15
But their minds were closed. For to this day the same veil remains at the reading of the old covenant. It has not been lifted, because only in Christ can it be removed. / And even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts.
Psalm 69:22-23
May their table become a snare; may it be a retribution and a trap. / May their eyes be darkened so they cannot see, and their backs be bent forever.
Luke 8:10
He replied, “The knowledge of the mysteries of the kingdom of God has been given to you, but to others I speak in parables, so that, ‘though seeing, they may not see; though hearing, they may not understand.’
Jeremiah 5:21
“Hear this, O foolish and senseless people, who have eyes but do not see, who have ears but do not hear.
I think that is where it should be focussed.
Most professing Christians "lose their faith" or walk away from church when they are in their late teens.
That shows me that those individuals have not internalized what they were taught in those churches. I've talked to a lot of them. The common theme was that their parents made them ago to church and Christian school. When they were on their own, many left for college and they replaced church with college and often hedonistic tendencies. The pastor and teachers were replaced with examples of authority they decided to trust. Those were the unbelieving professors who interjected their own ethics(or lack thereof), philosophical and religious perspectives into each subject they taught.
Young adult Christians should not be allowed to marry unbelievers according toany Bible commands. This was outright ignored in the. Majority of churches I've been in all my life by the pastors for some reason.
Since there's been an agenda to hire and promote those who reflect ungodly worldly perspectives, that's the kind of professors that influence the youngest adults when they are so very zealous, yet impressionable.
"Professing themselves wise, they became fools...."
Romans 1
The purpose of debate with an atheist should generally be to proclaim to him the good news about Jesus Christ. While this could presumably be done without using scripture, there is so much evidence about Jesus in scripture that my question is, why would you?
It would be similar to debating that the Apollo moon landings were faked, but not permitting into the debate any of the documents or records produced by NASA.
I agree and would add that per my Baptist upbringing teens were not taught very much beyond the Gospel,
and even the Gospel was not taught fully/elaborately/deeply, so that I had to learn a lot of the elements
by reading the Bible for myself to find answers to the doubts prompted by encountering atheism in college
(which I share in Lesson 2 of our website).
Thank you for sharing your own experiences. It seems like a theme in our Baptist/Evangelical churches. It's great to hear about your Baptist background. Your experience is more confirmation that there's a lot lacking in our churches that should be addressed.
To give credit where it's due first,
I know there are exceptions and tremendous pastors and teachers that labor hard in Word and sacrifice much for their church.
I worked with some and had a very good Sunday School teacher I credit for helping my foundations. My pastor taught me his class notes and all the materials he saved from Bible college while I was in HS. It was his Bible Institute. I tried to encourage him to teach the rest of the church what he was teaching and he'd shake his head and give me the KISS principle.
One of the most common reasons why Baptist and Non-denominational Evangelical church members leave their home churches is because they aren't being fed.
Then there were Christian books, tapes and others that helped me with growth.
For example, I had been raised a Theistic Evolutionist Roman Catholic. After I trusted Christ as Savior, I attended ICR conferences and bought some great books. Dr Henry Morris and staff had the materials I needed to get beyond the religion based science falsely so called.
Then I listened to Pastor Jack Hyles sermons, a lot of the Great Pastors and Evangelists from the last century.
The New Age influences were set apart immediately by good radio teaching and a couple books from Dave Hunt(Evangelical/Baptistic).
Walter Martin and others on the old John Ankerburg Show helped a little as did many more.
The biggest kick start was from my Sunday School teacher who would visit our parents and ask permission to show pro life videos and was very communicative with my family. We went door to door soul winning weekly which was some of the best training in my life.
WVU exposed me to hundreds of examples that confirmed what you are saying.
Was there Sunday School teacher or anyone in your early years after you got saved, who influenced you to go forward and grow spiritually?
...And even sadder, I frequently heard that the Baptist were more savvy about Scripture than the Methodists and mainline denominations. In HS and college my best friend was the only person I discussed doctrine with. My parents were great
but more action oriented than philosophical. However, after many years I did ask my dad why he was a Christian, and he said
it was the best belief, which is the best summary of everything else I have learned through the years and why "The Best Belief"
is the title of Lesson 1 in our website.
The only pastor I encountered who went beyond KISSing to teach systematically was R.B. Thieme, a graduate
of Dallas TS. My wife and I attended a satellite location of his church during the same years I also experienced
systematic teaching in seminary classes, especially by a professor named William Hendricks. I forget exactly when
I became aware of ICR and purchased their two volumes on world history. I appreciated the critique of science,
but I felt they did not appreciate enough that God is not tricky, so we have to harmonize science with Scripture.
We also attended Bill Gothard's Seminar on Basic Youth Conflicts and bought some books, but his approach was
more devotional than Scriptural. I never knew a "door to door" evangelist, but I can imagine that would be good
practical training.
Generally speaking they are IF the Holy Spirit dwells within them and they continue in the Word of God. That only occurs IF someone reaches them with the gospel.
That's where door to door evangelism comes in.
One example of going out in pairs to evangelize everywhere.
Luke 10:
1After these things the Lord appointed other seventy also, and sent them two and two before his face into every city and place, whither he himself would come. 2Therefore said he unto them, The harvest truly is great, but the labourers are few: pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he would send forth labourers into his harvest.
I've heard over and over again about "the fair shake God gives everyone."
I started to wonder if my Non-denominational pastor was a closet Calvinists?
Over the years I asked about outreach. Were we to leave the great commission to the Jehovah's False Witnesses next door? Who was going to reach the lost? Were the unbelievers going to start attending services to be impressed by such advanced meaty doctrines and ask the pastor, "Sir, what must I do to be saved?"
One thing that would be certain is no mention of where the unbeliever goes if they were to die without Christ. I thought that to be a bit basic.
Anyhow, there are a lot of areas in my short lifetime where churches resemble some of those in Revelation chapters 1-3. Hopefully many will repent before their candlestick is removed.
The independent Baptists tended to send their HS graduates off to Bible college. From their they were to learn what their pastors failed to teach and get an MRS Degree while they're at it. Many of these colleges were quite effective taking the lifetime investments of parents, SS teachers, youth leaders, pastors in those Christian children and directing them in those moldable energetic years
That tradition hurt the independent Baptist by excluding the upcoming generations from their home churches. The most thriving Bible based AND evangelical churches of the twentieth century started dying off from a few poor traditions. Now looking back in hindsight, I have plans to attempt to make a positive dent in that and encourage the churches to reach the lost in the institutions.
I did not gain enough confidence to overcome my introverted personality and witness until I graduated from seminary and was the Minister of Youth and Education at a church in Maryland, but even then my main concern was equipping those saints rather than going door to door.
May God bless your plan, because sometimes it does not seem that the harvest is very great.
Please feel free to use our website as a resource.
I did not gain enough confidence to overcome my introverted personality and witness until I graduated from seminary and was the Minister of Youth and Education at a church in Maryland, but even then my main concern was equipping those saints rather than going door to door.
May God bless your plan, because sometimes it does not seem that the harvest is very great.
Please feel free to use our website as a resource.
I love introverts. God can use anyone. We go out to nursing homes/assisted living. When we pair up, there's the one who leads the interaction and does the talking, while the other is a silent partner. He prays silently and helps in ways to prevent distractions to the gospel witness. It's more involved than that, but in a nutshell it is an extremely beneficial ministry.
The disciples preached publicly and from house to house.
The public preaching can be anywhere, but the most fruitful I've found are scheduled services on a regular basis at the institutions like those .mentioned, jails and prisons, any public gathering including college campuses as demonstrated by Charlie Kirk .
I prefer the positive presentation rather than debate because I want them to come to know Christ and be approachable.
Thank you for offering your resources. That is such a blessing!
I love introverts. God can use anyone. We go out to nursing homes/assisted living. When we pair up, there's the one who leads the interaction and does the talking, while the other is a silent partner. He prays silently and helps in ways to prevent distractions to the gospel witness. It's more involved than that, but in a nutshell it is an extremely beneficial ministry.
The disciples preached publicly and from house to house.
The public preaching can be anywhere, but the most fruitful I've found are scheduled services on a regular basis at the institutions like those .mentioned, jails and prisons, any public gathering including college campuses as demonstrated by Charlie Kirk .
I prefer the positive presentation rather than debate because I want them to come to know Christ and be approachable.
Thank you for offering your resources. That is such a blessing!
Being a silent partner sounds doable for me. I have met some folks who do prison ministry, which also sounds fruitful.
The last person to do street corner preaching that I have heard of was Arthur Blessitt, who carried a cross across the country.
I also prefer being positive, and it is a challenge not to succumb to the temptation to make snide rejoinders on CC.
The website is me, because I cannot remember everything I believe, especially stated the best way I want to put it,
so it is the main way I witness these days, utilizing my gift of editing, and I am still learning and amending it.
Most recently the Lord led me to add a lesson on Applied Biblical Hermeneutics and a corresponding thread on CC
called Resolving Problematic Interpretations, primarily concerned with trying to resolve the endless debate about
TULIP vs. MFW, because after a few folks were banned that seems to be the main bone of contention. Pray it heals!
Having a debate with an atheist is one of those things that Proverbs talks about as unwise to begin with.
First off, you can't quote scriptures at people. It sounds like badly written instructions translated by some Chinese interpreter who got it wrong...they know exactly what you are doing anyway.
However, you CAN tell them how much God has done for you starting with how God gave you an understanding of what is truly good vx evil vx worthless. (Which is exactly what Jesus told people to do)
Most Atheists are unconcerned about spiritual matters. Their whole focus in life is in obtaining pleasure and power and wealth. If and when they do focus on spiritual matters it's Because they seek to sooth their hurting conscience.
From a practical point of view....review Timothy. Yes, I know it's a pastoral letter, but he talks pointedly and specifically about how evil people are to each other. How everyone is looking to game, cheat, abuse someone. So COMPLETELY UNDERSTANDING what is said in scriptures is of utmost importance. Very easy to know what was said, its gradeschool level in spiritual maturity....understanding what was said is MORE important as its very guidelines will help you understand and make decisions about the world around you. (Which is what Paul was expressing to Timothy...which those not familiar with proselytizing need to know).
First off, you can't quote scriptures at people. It sounds like badly written instructions translated by some Chinese interpreter who got it wrong...they know exactly what you are doing anyway.
However, you CAN tell them how much God has done for you starting with how God gave you an understanding of what is truly good vx evil vx worthless. (Which is exactly what Jesus told people to do)
Most Atheists are unconcerned about spiritual matters. Their whole focus in life is in obtaining pleasure and power and wealth. If and when they do focus on spiritual matters it's Because they seek to sooth their hurting conscience.
From a practical point of view....review Timothy. Yes, I know it's a pastoral letter, but he talks pointedly and specifically about how evil people are to each other. How everyone is looking to game, cheat, abuse someone. So COMPLETELY UNDERSTANDING what is said in scriptures is of utmost importance. Very easy to know what was said, its gradeschool level in spiritual maturity....understanding what was said is MORE important as its very guidelines will help you understand and make decisions about the world around you. (Which is what Paul was expressing to Timothy...which those not familiar with proselytizing need to know).
You are correct about the futility of witnessing to closed-minded atheists, just as it is pointless to play verbal ping-pong with tulipists.
All we can do is the best we can by sharing our testimony as you suggested and 1Pet. 3:15 commands and by providing Scriptural answers to the questions causing doubts as Paul exemplified with the Athenians in Acts 17:16-31, hoping some will be convicted
in their conscience.
My testimony is this:
I was raised by loving, Christian (Southern Baptist) parents, who were happily married for 70 years. I attended church regularly as a child, and about the age of eight I had enough courage to walk the aisle during an invitation and profess publicly my faith in Jesus
by being baptized.
My personality was rather introverted as a teenager, so I discussed my beliefs only with a few close friends. When I was a senior in high school, my favorite teacher was a former preacher turned agnostic, and in my freshman year of college, the daughter of a missionary became an atheist. My ignorance of answers to questions asked by skeptics prompted me to read the entire Bible (NEB) making notes in the margins (which I repeated with three other versions over the years).
After college and military service I attended Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, where a professor of systematic theology,
Dr. William Hendricks, stimulated my thinking, while I attended a satellite church that listened to tapes by R.B. Thieme, whose preaching was also systematic teaching. During this time I heard a debate on the radio between Christian evangelist Bob Harrington and atheist Madalyn Murray O’Hair. Although the exchange was quite humorous, I was chagrined to concede that the atheist won the debate on substance, and I determined to seek better replies to such questions and criticisms.
Years later as a military chaplain, I encountered the Atheist Community of Austin and offered to speak at one of their meetings.
I also debated atheists on an Army online chat site for a few years. Although I cannot claim to have converted anyone, the discussions helped hone my own beliefs, which I published on a website, <truthseekersfellowship.com> in 2005. In 2018 and 2019 I self-published two booklets, The Best Belief and The Christian Creed, which are now also on the website.
The following excerpts from “Love God with All Your Mind” by J.P. Moreland expresses my experience: “I used to be afraid of witnessing... I was rather defensive and nervous... But now I understand why I believe, and this has brought me both peace and
a non-defensive boldness to witness to others.” (p.20) “Sunday School should be more effective in training believers how to think carefully about their faith. Training in apologetics should be a regular part of discipleship.” (p.26) “Our discipleship materials often leave Christian young people vulnerable to atheistic college professors.” (p.28) “The apostle Paul... reasoned with and tried to persuade people intelligently to accept Christ.” (p.30)
My testimony continues in the lessons on the website for the edification of anyone who is interested, in hopes that it will
provide a spiritual boost for fellow truthseekers. LIC, GWH
Interesting that you put tuplists in the save field as athiests are you sure your not playing pong pingYou are correct about the futility of witnessing to closed-minded atheists, just as it is pointless to play verbal ping-pong with tulipists.
All we can do is the best we can by sharing our testimony as you suggested and 1Pet. 3:15 commands and by providing Scriptural answers to the questions causing doubts as Paul exemplified with the Athenians in Acts 17:16-31, hoping some will be convicted
in their conscience.
My testimony is this:
I was raised by loving, Christian (Southern Baptist) parents, who were happily married for 70 years. I attended church regularly as a child, and about the age of eight I had enough courage to walk the aisle during an invitation and profess publicly my faith in Jesus
by being baptized.
My personality was rather introverted as a teenager, so I discussed my beliefs only with a few close friends. When I was a senior in high school, my favorite teacher was a former preacher turned agnostic, and in my freshman year of college, the daughter of a missionary became an atheist. My ignorance of answers to questions asked by skeptics prompted me to read the entire Bible (NEB) making notes in the margins (which I repeated with three other versions over the years).
After college and military service I attended Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, where a professor of systematic theology,
Dr. William Hendricks, stimulated my thinking, while I attended a satellite church that listened to tapes by R.B. Thieme, whose preaching was also systematic teaching. During this time I heard a debate on the radio between Christian evangelist Bob Harrington and atheist Madalyn Murray O’Hair. Although the exchange was quite humorous, I was chagrined to concede that the atheist won the debate on substance, and I determined to seek better replies to such questions and criticisms.
Years later as a military chaplain, I encountered the Atheist Community of Austin and offered to speak at one of their meetings.
I also debated atheists on an Army online chat site for a few years. Although I cannot claim to have converted anyone, the discussions helped hone my own beliefs, which I published on a website, <truthseekersfellowship.com> in 2005. In 2018 and 2019 I self-published two booklets, The Best Belief and The Christian Creed, which are now also on the website.
The following excerpts from “Love God with All Your Mind” by J.P. Moreland expresses my experience: “I used to be afraid of witnessing... I was rather defensive and nervous... But now I understand why I believe, and this has brought me both peace and
a non-defensive boldness to witness to others.” (p.20) “Sunday School should be more effective in training believers how to think carefully about their faith. Training in apologetics should be a regular part of discipleship.” (p.26) “Our discipleship materials often leave Christian young people vulnerable to atheistic college professors.” (p.28) “The apostle Paul... reasoned with and tried to persuade people intelligently to accept Christ.” (p.30)
My testimony continues in the lessons on the website for the edification of anyone who is interested, in hopes that it will
provide a spiritual boost for fellow truthseekers. LIC, GWH
Interesting that you put tuplists in the save field as athiests are you sure your not playing pong ping
You know I don't, but I AM playing peace-maker. I started the Hermeneutics thread for the purpose of discussing how we can answer Christ's prayer for spiritual unity among his followers (John 17:20-23), because it seemed to me that a lot of chat by Christians tends to ignore Jesus' concern, but for those who share it, the question is how to achieve it, and the answer involves agreeing on one interpretation of Scripture as much as possible (Phil. 3:15, Matt. 19:26). Thus, I began by sharing a way of interpreting Scripture that is based on the instruction of Paul (in 1Thes. 5:21) to “Test everything. Hold on to the good.”
As I arrived at my one year anniversary on CC last month, I discerned that the main bone of contention on CC is whether TULIP or MFW correctly interprets GW. As I indicated on the Apologetics thread, I have come to realize that apologetics does not necessarily mean only explaining why Christian theism is the best belief to atheists and anti-Christians, but it also can refer to explaining to Christians why one interpretation of Scripture is better than another.
On several CC threads we have been discussing (sometimes arguing) whether the understanding known by the acronym TULIP or the opposing viewpoint designated as moral free will (MFW) is better or closer to the correct New Testament teaching concerning salvation. And recently the Lord laid it on my heart to do my best to resolve the conflict by discussing the issue systematically (aka dialectically) in the hope that everyone will eventually be in agreement about the better belief on this divisive subject and perhaps some others. I hope those who share this desire and calling will participate on the Resolving Problematic Interpretations thread.
LIC, Groovy
Well having read many doctrines here at cc, I would say the best post of them all I read was all names are in the book of life untill blotted out.You know I don't, but I AM playing peace-maker. I started the Hermeneutics thread for the purpose of discussing how we can answer Christ's prayer for spiritual unity among his followers (John 17:20-23), because it seemed to me that a lot of chat by Christians tends to ignore Jesus' concern, but for those who share it, the question is how to achieve it, and the answer involves agreeing on one interpretation of Scripture as much as possible (Phil. 3:15, Matt. 19:26). Thus, I began by sharing a way of interpreting Scripture that is based on the instruction of Paul (in 1Thes. 5:21) to “Test everything. Hold on to the good.”
As I arrived at my one year anniversary on CC last month, I discerned that the main bone of contention on CC is whether TULIP or MFW correctly interprets GW. As I indicated on the Apologetics thread, I have come to realize that apologetics does not necessarily mean only explaining why Christian theism is the best belief to atheists and anti-Christians, but it also can refer to explaining to Christians why one interpretation of Scripture is better than another.
On several CC threads we have been discussing (sometimes arguing) whether the understanding known by the acronym TULIP or the opposing viewpoint designated as moral free will (MFW) is better or closer to the correct New Testament teaching concerning salvation. And recently the Lord laid it on my heart to do my best to resolve the conflict by discussing the issue systematically (aka dialectically) in the hope that everyone will eventually be in agreement about the better belief on this divisive subject and perhaps some others. I hope those who share this desire and calling will participate on the Resolving Problematic Interpretations thread.
LIC, Groovy
I would say that should truly ring home with anyone, and if it doesn't well we can always play ping pong, and whilst it will be a ping to some, it will be a pong to others,
So you could play pong ping without realising it,
Interesting that you put tuplists in the save field as athiests are you sure your not playing pong ping
TULIPists have an unrecognized problem with their faith. Though the do believe themselves to be wiser than most in the Faith they are missing out on the blatant truth that it destroys themselves.
However, if you would read GWH's biography....you will see that he was raised in the SBC churches. Meaning that many of them have a large quantity of TULIPists in their congregations. Although this group has been used extensively as mere workhorses for advancing the Gospel message by the SBC they have NEVER been allowed any leadership inside the SBC. (It's a true convention and without hierchy) And most TULIP pastors usually find themselves short-lived in the pulpit in most SBC churches. (2 year max) Those who are longer lived, find themselves in a dying/dead church without members.
Sorry, that's just the way it is.
And where I'm sure you would like to point out an exception or two....you cannot argue from the particular to the general. Only general to particular to have any success.
The truth is that the SBC has never really been TULIPists....despite many claims to the contrary. Often couched in terms as "historical baptists" or "traditional baptists" vx Reformed or whatever. Sure, they often preach OSAS....but not in the way that TULIPists have claimed what it means. It means it's more guaranteed to last and grow forever than your 401k has been claimed to perform.
Well having read many doctrines here at cc, I would say the best post of them all I read was all names are in the book of life untill blotted out.
I would say that should truly ring home with anyone, and if it doesn't well we can always play ping pong, and whilst it will be a ping to some, it will be a pong to others,
So you could play pong ping without realising it,
Hmmm. I liked the way you paraphrased Rev. 20:15, but actually it does not say that.
Just be sure that you and I do not play ping pong.