Loss of salvation???

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GRACE_ambassador said:
loss of salvation???
Is the proof of this in "saved(written in), and then lost(blotted out) of"
The Lamb's Book Of Life?:

Precious friends, I hardly don't think so, since, According To Scripture:

1) With God's Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided, we find The Following Truths:

a) God Has Always Known them "that Are His" ​

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15 AV) From “Things That Differ!” (online):​

b) God Has Never Known them "that are Not His" (Matthew 7:21-23 AV), ​
thus:​

c) Conclusion: there is no such Sound Biblical doctrine as:​

"God Once ALWAYS knew/saved you and then ​
( losing salvation ) He Never knew you", Correct?​
+
2) God's Desire And Action:

a) In 1 Timothy 2:4 AV, It Speaks Of His Uttermost Desire:​
​
"Who Will Have all men To Be Saved, and to​
come unto the knowledge of The Truth!"​
​
b) God's Uttermost Provision For His Above Desire:​
​
"Jesus Christ The Righteous..Is The Propitiation for our sins: and not for​
ours [ Israel ] only, but also [ Gentiles = ] for the sins of the whole world."​
​
c) Thus Within God's Wonderful Purpose, It Now Makes Perfect Sense That:​
​
He Has Written All mankind's names In His Book Of Life, Has He Not? ​
Because: ​
​
"Add iniquity unto their iniquity: and let them not come​
into Thy Righteousness. Let them Be Blotted Out of​
The Book of the living, and not be Written with the righteous."​
[ The Lamb's Book Of Life . . . . . . . . . . . . . . The Lamb's Book Of Life! ]​
​
Therefore, at the Great White Throne Judgment, unbelievers will face God's Righteous
Justice. Because of their refusal of The Love Of The Truth Of God's Gracious Provision
Offered to them, will they not have to acknowledge God's Just Judgment, understanding
that they Truly deserve what they Will Receive (cp "...without excuse..." in Romans 1:20 AV)?

God Has Already Written all names in His Book of Life. However, upon an unbeliever's
death, their name is blotted out from This Book. Consequently, when their name is 'not
found' Therein, they are cast into the Lake of Fire, as described in Revelation 20:11-15 AV,
According To God's Undiluted Wrath!:


3) Precious friends, if still unsure about 'losing ' God's Eternal Salvation, please
prayerfully/Carefully review/meditate (see Bible Study Rules) on God's: ​
​
+
Because Of God's Own All-Sufficient BLOOD God's Eternal Salvation Is, In
Biblical Fact, "in view" In God's Revelation Of The Mystery, To/For Gentiles,
Today, In His Dispensation Of The Grace Of God, Biblically Confirmed By:

God's OPERATION On All New-born babes In Christ!
+ Updates: (of # 11) + (of #14)
+
God's Eternal Life Assurance
+
God's Eternal Life Insurance

Finally Precious friend(s), Please Be Very Richly Encouraged And Edified
In Christ, and In His Precious Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided!

Amen.
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Yes all names are in the lambs book of life untill blotted out 🙂. His book of life, is also about death and resurrection

Gods grace, is he will have a relationship with everyone in some way or another untill he hands them over to disobedience.

Yep that's the whole picture right there.
 
There are three ways the book of life is referred to in the Bible. The book of the living (Psalm 69:28), the book of life (Philippians 4:3; Revelation 3:5; 20:12, 15), and the lamb’s book of Life (Revelation 13:8; 21:27). There are those who hold the view that the first two phrases refer to a book which contains the names of every person who has physical life upon the earth and the third phrase, the Lamb’s Book of Life, refers to a book which contains the names of every person who has eternal life in Jesus Christ.

The alternative view is that there is only one book of life and when unbelievers die, their names are removed from the book of life. Revelation 13:8 indicates that names have been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world. In Psalm 69:28, we read - May they be blotted out of the book of life and not be listed with the righteous. In Revelation 20:12-15, we read that books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life, and anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

What is the Book of Life and the Book of the Living? | NeverThirsty
Is it possible for a person’s name to be erased from the Book of Life? | GotQuestions.org
 
Musicmaster said:
, it makes sense that their names were not written in that book because they will place themselves beyond any ability to be saved.

Interesting realities indeed.

MM
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Firstly its not just that book, secondly it's not your book, thirdly you make no sense.

When his words says there name will be blotted out of the lambs book of life that means they where in there to begin with

What make more sense is that in death God is still life to all the unsaved.

There fixed it for you
 
mailmandan said:
There are three ways the book of life is referred to in the Bible. The book of the living (Psalm 69:28), the book of life (Philippians 4:3; Revelation 3:5; 20:12, 15), and the lamb’s book of Life (Revelation 13:8; 21:27). There are those who hold the view that the first two phrases refer to a book which contains the names of every person who has physical life upon the earth and the third phrase, the Lamb’s Book of Life, refers to a book which contains the names of every person who has eternal life in Jesus Christ.

The alternative view is that there is only one book of life and when unbelievers die, their names are removed from the book of life. Revelation 13:8 indicates that names have been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world. In Psalm 69:28, we read - May they be blotted out of the book of life and not be listed with the righteous. In Revelation 20:12-15, we read that books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life, and anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

What is the Book of Life and the Book of the Living? | NeverThirsty
Is it possible for a person’s name to be erased from the Book of Life? | GotQuestions.org
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Interestingly, there is more than one book:

Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

I've heard it said that one of the books is the transcript of things done in this life and the other containing names or the lack thereof, with the record of deeds containing the deeds done even by those whose names were blotted out or not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world who will wonder after the beast.

It's perhaps a good thing that we who are of the body of Christ will not be there to witness, or perhaps we will. The downside is that we would then see and/or hear of the evils done in the flesh by those being judged.

Good stuff, Dan.

MM
 
Musicmaster said:
Interestingly, there is more than one book:

Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

I've heard it said that one of the books is the transcript of things done in this life and the other containing names or the lack thereof, with the record of deeds containing the deeds done even by those whose names were blotted out or not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world who will wonder after the beast.

It's perhaps a good thing that we who are of the body of Christ will not be there to witness, or perhaps we will. The downside is that we would then see and/or hear of the evils done in the flesh by those being judged.

Good stuff, Dan.

MM
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I think it would be better if you did witness execution, it may just strike a home a message that you can't rewrite the word of God ,🙂
 
Musicmaster said:
Interestingly, the works-based salvationists who think they have within themselves the power to retain their salvation, they can take their chances in trying to tell the Lord how they helped Him out.....


I'm still waiting, in perpetuity, for any one of them to be brave enough to define for us that line of demarcation whereby one looses his salvation. Without that definition clearly laid out, they try to make the Lord out to be indifferent toward our need to know where that line rests if it even existed at all, which it doesn't.
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Yes. If salvation could be lost, it would be CLEARLY stated and well defined. The stakes are so very high, the Lord Jesus Christ wouldn't leave it up for debate.

He left us clear and undeniable promises that eternal life cannot be lost/forfeited. Salvation is about whether or not we go to the Lake of Fire for eternity or Have life with Him for eternity. He would not leave us hanging.
 
Kroogz said:
Yes. If salvation could be lost, it would be CLEARLY stated and well defined. The stakes are so very high, the Lord Jesus Christ wouldn't leave it up for debate.

He left us clear and undeniable promises that eternal life cannot be lost/forfeited. Salvation is about whether or not we go to the Lake of Fire for eternity or Have life with Him for eternity. He would not leave us hanging.
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That very well highlights the dilemma resulting from their false beliefs; never with them admitting nor showing to us how they know that even they are saved apart from personal feelings and mere claims. They have no way of proving to anyone, apart from their own emotions they seem to be satisfied with, that they have not stepped over that imaginary line they have no way of defining. They too continue to sin, so all they have left is to boast of their alleged being in better standing in relation to others to try and claim they haven't lost their salvation.

The desperation in their arguments speak loud volumes of things they aren't willing to admit to even themselves. Not one post has yet been created, so far as I have seen, where anyone can show us the test for salvation loss so that we too can know who, according to their brand of theology, is on the side of salvation and who is standing on the dark side of loss. They have only their own righteousness at which they can point, which is no measure of righteousness whatsoever. They boast, through various means of implication, of their own level of righteousness as supposedly having preserved their salvation to this day, but they provide nothing with clarity by which we can know that such an objective line exists, which it doesn't. It's purely man-made and is contradictory to scripture, not to mention subjective from person to person who hold to that belief.

Thanks, Kroogz. Good points and counter points.

MM
 
The times I have encountered a salvation-loss gang member, face to face, when I asked him if he has ever lost his salvation, perhaps numerous times, and if he is saved again in that very moment, he always has said that he is saved at that moment.

How is ANY of that not boasting, either way, by implication? One doesn't have to boast outright be boasting in their salvation in exact language because the implication is absolutely an unavoidable presence. One cannot escape the reality and fact of them boasting when any one of them says that he lost and regained his salvation at any point in his life or that he has retained it up to that point. There is no escaping the sin of boasting for them within that doctrinal belief system. The flames of guilt will always lick at their heels as they try to shuck and jive their way out from being burned because of their own indifference to the harsh realities they cannot escape.

MM
 
ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
Your words only make sense from a gnostic point of view.
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And your words only make sense from a Pharisaical point of view. At the end of the day, neither comment deals with the discussion.

ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
We are secure as long as we remain in Christ via faith.
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We are secure in Christ by means of grace, not faith. If our security relied on faith, our security would be imperfect as no-one's faith is yet perfected.
 
sawdust said:
We are secure in Christ by means of grace, not faith. If our security relied on faith, our security would be imperfect as no-one's faith is yet perfected.
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Grace is only received through faith

For by grace you are saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Ephesians 2:8​
 
ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
Pharisaical in what way? Obedience to what God commands is not Pharisaical.
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What does God command that you must follow? You have never elaborated on this. Nor have you ever mentioned how we do it (that I have seen in our conversations). What I hear from you is the same ol' cliches that I heard when I first became a Christian. Yet, no-one taught the details of how or why it worked the way it did.
 
The commandments have a balance that some miss:

Rom 7:9-11, 13
9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me. ...
13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

In all that is said about the Commands to us today, none of it can save. By the commands we know what sin is and that good works will earn us treasure in Heaven rather than any thing added to our salvation, which is by grace alone through faith.

2 Corinthians 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

So, when someone thinks the commands will do anything but bring death to them in this life in relation to salvation, they fool only themselves.

MM
 
The first command of God I'd suggest be followed by all men is to believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ 1John3:23a which the Spirit works to convince men of John16:9.

From there I'd suggest believers obey God's command to love one another as His Son commands 1John3:23b.

From there I'd suggest that every believer understand that 1John3:23 summarizes the entirety of the Gospel with its 100's of commands in the NC Writings and thus to obey just those 2 commands entails being in obedience to several hundred commands contained in the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

This follows the pattern of the 2 greatest commandments of OC Law - to love God and to love neighbor as ourselves - summarizing all of OC Law.
 
Musicmaster said:
The commandments have a balance that some miss:

Rom 7:9-11, 13
9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me. ...
13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

In all that is said about the Commands to us today, none of it can save. By the commands we know what sin is and that good works will earn us treasure in Heaven rather than any thing added to our salvation, which is by grace alone through faith.

2 Corinthians 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

So, when someone thinks the commands will do anything but bring death to them in this life in relation to salvation, they fool only themselves.

MM
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I think God's command to believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ can save men who obey God by believing His command to believe in the name of His Son 1John3:23a.
 
Kroogz said:
We will never perish. We will never, no not ever come into condemnation.

I am a pelagian heretic. Haven't you heard?

Same trash as the calvies use. You cannot handle the message, so defame/trash/ accuse the messenger.
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If the shoe fits, wear it

"[The Valentinian gnostics] hold that they shall be entirely and undoubtedly saved, not by means of conduct, but because they are spiritual by nature. For, just as it is impossible that material substance should partake of salvation (since, indeed, they maintain that it is incapable of receiving it), so again it is impossible that spiritual substance (by which they mean themselves) should ever come under the power of corruption, whatever the sort of actions in which they indulged. For even as gold, when submersed in filth, loses not on that account its beauty, but retains its own native qualities, the filth having no power to injure the gold, so they affirm that they cannot in any measure suffer hurt, or lose their spiritual substance, whatever the material actions in which they may be involved.' Against Heresies. Book, Chapter 6, paragraph 2​
 
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